"Replacement Theology" is a Strawman Argument

[Terral]

Hi Hismessenger and Kalanit:

Posts #94, #95 and #97 were made very long and very detailed to give you every opportunity to ‘quote >>’ anything at all and show everyone my errors using Scripture. 2Tim. 2:15. All Kalanit could muster is:

Kalanit >> Terral- Dude, with all due respect, your theology is wacked, man.

Wacked? There are over 2000 denominations of professing Christians in the USA alone and about that many ways of interpreting Scripture. Kalanit’s and Terral’s version represents just two of them. The Board was founded upon the principle of every registered member giving their own views and everyone else deciding for themselves. If you see shortcomings in my commentary then by all means ‘quote >>’ those errors and remove the splinter from my eye.

Hismessenger >> Terral, you make this statement which is contrary to what the word of God says; [/b]God’s will in the Old Testament had nothing to do with salvation by His grace through faith apart from works (Eph. 2:8-9).[/b] IF this is true then why did God say to Abraham; Gen 15:18In the same day the LORD made a covenant with Abram, saying, Unto thy seed have I given this land, from the river of Egypt unto the great river, the river Euphrates:

Why is Hismessenger comparing apples to oranges? Did Abraham obtain ‘citizenship IN HEAVEN’ (Phil. 3:20) with the promise of judging the world and the angels (1Cor. 6:2+3)? No! He descended down to Sheol like everybody else in the OT save two. There is no Hebrew term in the OT translated “Gospel” even once. There is no Hebrew term in the OT translated ‘faith’ more than once! NASB. Do you want to see a truly blank stare from an individual? Talk to a practicing Jew about going to heaven. :0) Israel anticipates being raised on the last day to be led into the Land of Jacob. Eze. 37:11+12. The Lord God (Christ) making promises to Abraham is a far cry from salvation (forgiveness of sins) by God’s grace through faith apart from works. Eph. 2:8-9. The only place in Scripture where ‘grace’ (charis) and ‘faith’ (pistis) appear in the same verse is within the Pauline Epistles. Israel’s inheritance is IN THIS EARTH and in the Promised Land that you mention above. Our inheritance has NOTHING to do with this earth or anything to do with Israel of the flesh. Our “inheritance of the saints in Light” (Col. 1:12) is “in the kingdom of Christ and God” (Eph. 5:5).

Hismessenger >> If you are an astute studier of the word you would know that the nation Israel never comes to posses this land as given and it should point you in the direction of the truth.

Israel most certainly did already possess the Promised Land under Joshua and shall possess the Land again as prophesied in Ezekiel 47+48.

“So the Lord gave Israel all the land which He had sworn to give to their fathers, and they possessed it and lived in it.” Joshua 21:43.

When Elijah returns to restore all things (Matt. 17:10-11), then Israel will again possess the Promised Land from the “river of Egypt as far as the great river, the river Euphrates.” Gen. 15:18.

Hismessenger >> The people are the land which the seed of Abraham will posses. That seed being Christ Jesus, not national Israel.

No sir. The Kingdom to be established according to Ezekiel 47-48 is a real ‘on this earth’ Kingdom. David is installed as prince, as prophesied in Ezekiel 34:23-25 in that very same kingdom on this earth. The restored Temple (Eze. 40) is the same temple that the antichrist comes to stand in the Holy Place in Matthew 24:15 almost 1000 years later to set up his ‘abomination of desolation’ (Dan. 11:31, 12:11). Christ Jesus is the Father, Son and Holy Spirit containing this entire universe. Even the heavenly places were we are seated are “IN Christ Jesus” (Eph. 2:6), which tells you the “Son of God” is truly larger than this entire Creation. That is how all things are held together “IN” Him (Col. 1:17) in the first place. If you want to write a thesis on an understanding of Christ being the ‘Seed,’ then please start a thread and offer up your evidence. The idea that you can write three of four sentences of opinion on “Christ Jesus” using no Scripture at all is really quite amazing to me. My thread on the differences between Jesus Christ and Christ Jesus is here ( http://www.christianforums.com/t5575654.html ), if you would like to debate the topic. BTW, “Christ Jesus” is only referred to in the Pauline Epistles as part of the ‘revelation of the mystery.’ How you intend on connect that topic with Israel of the flesh and their inheritance in the Promised Land is a mystery to me.

Hismessenger >> All scripture is self supporting and there are pleny of scripture to back this up if you care to look for them.

Heh . . . How about if Hismessenger supports his own statements using Scripture? 2Tim. 2:15? I would imagine your case will be built upon something to do with Galatians 3:16-19, because Paul’s only other use of the term (seed) is in 1Cor. 15:38 and 2Cor. 9:10. The problem with your theory is that Paul is teaching Christ as the singular “Seed” (Gal. 3:16) “so that we would receive the PROMISE OF THE SPIRIT through faith.” Galatians 3:14. Paul is not teaching that ‘we’ (body of Christ) have an inheritance in this earth at all. On the contrary, he is saying exactly the opposite. If you go back to Romans 9 and read from the beginning, you will see ‘two’ groups called “Israel.” The first is Israel of the flesh given Mosaic Law with the covenants and promises named according to Jacob (Israel). However, the believers in our gospel are not named according to Israel, but “through Isaac your descendants will be named.” Romans 9:7. Paul is teaching that we who have been ‘baptized into Christ’ have been ‘clothed with Christ’ (Gal. 3:27) and that there is no such thing as a Jew or Greek “IN Christ Jesus.” Gal. 3:28. However, what has this to do with Israel of the flesh? Nothing! They wait on the sidelines in blindness (Rom. 11:7-9, 25) in anticipation of Elijah returning (Mal. 4:5+6) to restore all things (Matt. 17:10-11), as the ‘prophet’ of Acts 3:21-26. You and I anticipate being ‘caught up’ (1Thes. 4:17) to meet the Lord in the air and to forever be with Him part of “His Heavenly Kingdom” (2Tim. 4:18).

Here is a little quiz for you: Would you rather be part of the Kingdom of God “on earth AS IT IS in heaven” (Matt. 6:10) like Israel of the flesh, OR part of “His Heavenly Kingdom” like the members of Christ’s body?

In Christ Jesus,

Terral

 

[Hismessenger]

Terral,

How are they to inherit a land that will no longer exsist as per these scripture and others. The carnal mind hopes for the material thing to be so but in truth it is that of the spirit which is enduring and eternal.

Rev 21:5And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.

Isa 65:17For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.

Isa 65:18But be ye glad and rejoice for ever [in that] which I create: for, behold, I create Jerusalem a rejoicing, and her people a joy.

Isa 65:19And I will rejoice in Jerusalem, and joy in my people: and the voice of weeping shall be no more heard in her, nor the voice of crying.

Isa 66:22For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain.

2Pe 3:13Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness

How are they to inherit something that won't even be remembered as per Isa 65:17.



There is a wide path and many there are that go down it. New Heavens and a new earth. This earth is slated for the fire because it is corrupted. Do you really believe that God would allow His people to fall back into that same corruption?


hismessenger

 

[MrSnow]

Since I was all but accused of making things up out of thin air, I'll post some verses. Terral, perhaps you could exegete these passages for me.

Rom 9:6 But it is not as though the word of God has failed. For not all who are descended from Israel belong to Israel, Rom 9:7 and not all are children of Abraham because they are his offspring, but "Through Isaac shall your offspring be named." (This is the one I was referring to which you said made no sense).

Gal 3:16 Now the promises were made to Abraham and to his offspring. It does not say, "And to offsprings," referring to many, but referring to one, "And to your offspring," who is Christ.

Jos 21:43 Thus the LORD gave to Israel all the land that he swore to give to their fathers. And they took possession of it, and they settled there. Jos 21:44 And the LORD gave them rest on every side just as he had sworn to their fathers. Not one of all their enemies had withstood them, for the LORD had given all their enemies into their hands. Jos 21:45 Not one word of all the good promises that the LORD had made to the house of Israel had failed; all came to pass.

 

[Terral]

Hi Hismessenger:

Hismessenger >> How are they to inherit a land that will no longer exist as per these scripture and others. The carnal mind hopes for the material thing to be so but in truth it is that of the spirit which is enduring and eternal.

No Hismessenger. The things of the physical shall pass away AND the things of the spirit also. In truth it is that of the ‘blood’ which is enduring and eternal. Scripture teaches that there are ‘three’ that testify:

“This is the One who came by water and blood, Jesus Christ; not with the water only, but with the water and with the blood. It is the Spirit who testifies, because the Spirit is the truth. For there are three that testify: the Spirit and the water and the blood; and the three are into the One.” 1John 5:6-8.

I will get an explanation of your verses, but first we are going to discover a key that unlocks a myriad of doors uncovering God’s Hidden Wisdom of Scripture. We need this key to understand why our “Body of Christ” (Eph. 4:12) can never replace Israel of the flesh on this earth. Replacement Theology is based upon A MYTH from a total lack of understanding of God’s Living Word. “The Truth” of Scripture follows a specific series of ‘patterns’ revealed in the ‘relationships’ between God, The Word and This Creation ( http://www.christianforums.com/t5554552.html ). Follow along by duplicating these things on your own blank piece of paper and then we will answer your concerns about Israel inheriting the Promised Land in the New Earth.

All of the mystery diagrams begin with drawing a single circle atop your blank sheet of paper like this:

In this exercise we will uncover God’s Hidden Wisdom (1Cor. 2:6+) concerning Christ as His Living Word. Do you see the Father, Son and Holy Spirit in “The Word” of John 1:2? No. They all share the same glory as The Logos “before the world was” (John 17:5).” God had to separate (pierce) His “The Word” for the two witnesses of spirit and water (Father and Holy Spirit) to result from that original ‘sacrifice.’ God took the spirit witness (Father) and the water witness (Holy Spirit) Helper (John 16:7) and where the two seas overlapped (like in Luke 1:35) the “Son” became the “Only Begotten.”

The Singularity Expression (The Word) became two (Father and Holy Spirit), so that in their overshadowing together we have ‘three that testify.’ The Word is ‘now’ the Father (spirit witness), Son (blood witness) and the Holy Spirit (water witness) and those “three are into the one” (1John 5:8) in the “Heavenly Man Christ Jesus” like this:

If the Father, Son and Holy Spirit exist in this ‘present’ form for a hundred billion years, then the result will be the same; which is identical for ‘all’ the three witness groups of Scripture. Can you predict the future for this three witness trio? The Son is going to continue enlarging between His Father and Mother (Holy Spirit), until both cease to exist! The Father is representative of your ‘spirit’ and the Holy Spirit depicts your ‘body,’ while the Son holds all the secrets pertaining to your ‘soul’ enlarging to sum up ‘both.’ In every case the ‘blood witness’ enlarges, until the end result is exactly how things started “In The Beginning . . .”. The Father, Son And Holy Spirit are all going to disappear to once again become “The Word.” Your statement above (“. . . in truth it is that of the spirit which is enduring and eternal.” ) is false, because every ‘spirit’ and water witness HAS AN END. Only the ‘blood witness’ constantly enlarges to become the Singularity Expression that began the process.

The ‘heavens’ of this creation HAVE AN END exactly like the physical universe (‘earth&#8217 we behold with our eyes. The visible (earth) and the invisible (heavens) are being summed up (Eph. 1:9-10) in the very same mystery process you see for the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. The end will see only “The Son” (1Cor. 15:27) remaining, as all things in this universe are subjected to Him. Only then can the Son Himself (The Word) be subjected back to God, so He can once again be “all in all.” 1Cor. 15:28. Remember that “In The Beginning” God and His Word were the exact same thing! The reason we have the ‘triune’ spirit, blood and water ‘relationship’ between the Father, Son and Holy Spirit is because of the triune relationship between God (spirit), The Word (blood) and This Creation (water).

This diagram teaches the ‘relationships’ between God, The Word (Christ) and This Creation (Adam) that existed throughout all of the perfect ages of Genesis 1:1. Do you see any Father, Son or Holy Spirit in the Word yet? No! Do you see any heavens, heaven and earth in the blue water witness of This Creation? No! Why not? “The Earth” was also a singularity expression created in the image of “The Word” with the heavens (spirit witness), heaven (blood witness) and earth (water witness) joined “three are into the one” together. The ‘void’ condition you see in Genesis 1:2 represents how this “The Earth” became the three witnesses (waters above, heaven, waters below) of Genesis 1:6-8.

“Heaven” of Genesis 1:1 is “The Word” as a Singularity Expression. “My Father who is IN HEAVEN” (Matt. 10:32) is the ‘spirit witness’ of Christ Jesus (The Word) standing ‘between God and men’ (1Tim. 2:5). Jesus Christ is the ‘incarnation’ of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit on our earth 2000 years ago. John the Baptist is the man of the earth or our father Adam who represents this entire universe in one “man sent from God” (John 1:6). Our entire universe is only one “son of God” (Luke 3:38) representing “The Earth” of Genesis 1:1. The heavens are his spirit and the earth (Eve) is his body and ‘heaven’ (Gen. 1:8) is enlarging between them as we speak to sum up BOTH. In other words, the “Big Bang” Theory is also A MYTH invented by men. Everything in this universe was created as ‘one thing’ (The Earth) and that one thing was “Adam.” Genesis 1:2 describes how that singularity expression became three things that exist in this universe today. Do you see any infinite future for the ‘heavens’ of this creation? No! Every ‘spirit witness’ HAS AN END, just like every ‘water witness’ of the Scriptures. The ‘blood witness’ is the only one of the three witnesses with a future, as the END of the mystery process finds the ‘only begotten’ becoming the Singularity Expression; so the ‘last’ (completed blood witness) is the first (singularity expression).

God’s three witnesses are standing with Him (The Almighty) in Revelation 1:8 in the same way the three witnesses of “the Logos” are testifying together in Matthew 28:19. Look into Figure 1 and find “Christ Jesus” under the white arrow standing between the two veils (Holy Place) of this triune “true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, not man.” Heb. 8:2. The “Father” standing above His “Only Son” is “My Father who is IN HEAVEN” and you can clearly see “I and the Father are One.” John 10:30. Take your finger and draw a circle around the Father and His Only Son, then realize the Only Son also has the same ‘relationship’ with His ‘water witness’ (Helper) counterpart. The difference is that the “Second Veil” between the Father and the Son is TORN DOWN, as the ‘glory’ of the ‘spirit witness’ is given freely to the ‘blood witness’ in EVERY CASE. However, the First Veil between all of the blood and water witnesses REMAINS, until THE END, which is a typical characteristic of ‘all’ water witnesses (helpers) in the mystery diagrams. Move over to Figure 2 and use your finger to draw the same circle around God and The Word (F+S+HS) to realize ‘They’ have the same exact ‘relationship’ (Christ Jesus and God are One) on display between the Only Son and “My Father who is IN HEAVEN.”

The inheritance of the “Body of Christ” is IN CHRIST HIMSELF, or in the “Only Son” enlarging between His Father and Holy Spirit. By contrast, Israel’s inheritance is IN THE EARTH becoming ‘summed up’ into the Kingdom of Heaven enlarging between the Heavens and Earth of This Creation. When Christ says “on earth AS IT IS in heaven” (like Matt. 6:10), He is talking about ‘relationships’ between the Father, Son and Holy Spirit AS A REALM (Heaven = Gen. 1:1) and the Heavens, Heaven and Earth AS A REALM (The Earth = Gen. 1:1). Jesus Christ is the Heavenly Lord and Messiah FROM HEAVEN (F+S+HS), while John the Baptist (Adam) is the earthly messiah FROM EARTH (Heavens, Heaven and Earth) of This Creation. Now, in this light we will begin addressing your concerns from your selected verses. Your question is:

Hismessenger >> How are they to inherit something that won't even be remembered as per Isa 65:17.

The “Heaven” (The Word) and “Earth” (This Creation) relationship will continue throughout all the ‘ages to come’ (Eph. 2:7), until God, The Word and This Creation eventually become “One” at the very end (1Cor. 15:28). Our planet earth just happens to be the focus of God’s attention and the location where the Lord God (Christ = Gen. 2:4+) formed the ‘man from God’ (John 1:6) as our father Adam for the ‘garden’ He also formed for him. The Promised Land of Genesis 15:18 is the ‘earthly’ water witness counterpart to an also ‘triune’ set of witnesses in the heavens AND in the heaven (Gen. 1:8) standing and enlarging between them. This diagram is a bit complex, but teaches this concept over on the left-hand side:

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c266/Terral03/81.jpg

Adam is the “Earthly Messiah” created for the Garden of Eden that stood between the heavens and earth of This Creation. The “Tabernacle of David” (Acts 15:16-18) that has fallen is the Tabernacle of Adam, which includes the ‘relationship’ he had with God, the Word (Christ) and himself as the ‘man from God’ representing our entire universe in one man. If you bypass all the details of Scripture from those three witnesses (OT = spirit, Pauline Epistles = blood, Kingdom NT = water), then you find the “First = Last,” as “David” (Eze. 37:24-28) is yet another incarnation of the “man of the earth” representing this entire universe in one single “man from God.” God will remake this universe time and time again in a period of judgment (like Rev. 20:11-15) for ALL the ‘ages to come.’ In every case, God will reconstitute the remains of the ‘old’ in order to create the ‘new creation’ (heavens and earth) for each individual age. In the very center of that New Earth, God will create the ‘earthly’ water witness Promised Land to contain the members of Adam’s body, which will be an advanced version of the same Kingdom you see in Ezekiel 47+48. The key for your understanding is that Adam, the land of the garden (Kingdom) are ONE and made for each other. Remember again that Adam represents this entire universe in one man and the inhabitants of the kingdom are the members of his ‘body.’ Even the Gentiles outside the kingdom seeking admission are the members of Adam’s body and even the people flying around in their spaceships anticipating his arrival as “Elijah” (Mal. 4:5+6, Matt. 17:10+11) and those are only the ‘human’ witnesses testifying about him. The bear, lion, whale and albatross are also members of his body and continue to testify concerning the king and ‘earthly messiah’ coming to restore ‘all things.’ The 1000 Years “Day of the Lord” marks the first time David is installed as prince (Eze. 34:23-25), but his second installation (Eze. 37:24-28) is ‘forever’ in the New Earth of Revelation 21:1+. Adam (David) will be installed a king in ‘all’ the ages to come, as this creation is recreated with a greater glory in each age that better matches the original glory This Creation had as “The Earth” of Genesis 1:1.

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c266/Terral03/68.jpg

Jesus Christ is the Lord and Heaven is His throne, while the earth (World = David’s throne) is His footstool (Isa. 66:1). The “Highest Heaven” is the “Soul” of Christ Jesus laying on his side facing your right with the Father Realm being His Spirit Witness. Over on the far left you see His Body or the Holy Spirit Realm, as both (spirit and water witnesses) are being summed up to once again become “The Word.” Below Christ Jesus on a precise duplicate of the “Heavenly” Altar we see Adam laying on his side also facing your right. The Heavens represent his spirit and the Earth is his body and New Jerusalem is his new heart given by God out of Heaven (Word Realm). Remember that in the new creation there is NO DEATH (Rev. 21:4), so how will men go to heaven? :0) The answer is they must serve David in his ‘earthly’ kingdom, until such a time they earn the right to ascend on Jacob’s Ladder to stand before the Lamb in service to His Heavenly Throne. That is why all of the spaceships coming from all the inhabited worlds of this creation will eventually carry all the hosts to live on this enlarging earth and in David’s enlarging kingdom, until in time only Adam remains to ascend and join them. Only then will all things be subjected back to the Son (1Cor. 15:27), so the Son (F+S+HS = The Word) can then be subjected back to God to become ‘all in all’ (1Cor. 15:28) just like in the beginning. I hope this exercise helps to water the seeds of truth, so God can cause the growth (1Cor. 3:6+7).

Hismessenger >> There is a wide path and many there are that go down it. New Heavens and a new earth. This earth is slated for the fire because it is corrupted. Do you really believe that God would allow His people to fall back into that same corruption?

The heavens and earth pass away (Rev. 20:11) to make room for the “NEW” heavens and new earth for the coming New Age that will also have AN END with yet another Judgment. This Creation will be remade in a series of 490 ages, until the Last equals the First (The Earth) of Genesis 1:1. In other words, every particle of matter in this universe will eventually be summed up until all things equal one thing; and that one thing is Adam. The story of Scripture is all about how Humpty Adam fell off the wall (murdered by Satan) and God put Humpty Adam back together again held together in His Word (Col. 1:16+17) all the time.

In Christ Jesus,

Terral

 

[Terral]

Hi Mr. Snow:

Mr. Snow >> Since I was all but accused of making things up out of thin air, I'll post some verses. Terral, perhaps you could exegete these passages for me.

Rom 9:6 But it is not as though the word of God has failed. For not all who are descended from Israel belong to Israel, Rom 9:7 and not all are children of Abraham because they are his offspring, but "Through Isaac shall your offspring be named." (This is the one I was referring to which you said made no sense).

If you are seeking clarifying statements on something already presented in this debate, then the right course is to ‘quote >>’ any perceived errant statements from me to give your new statements context. What have you made up that my explanations will help clarify? You are forcing me to take guesses at your true intentions, which could very well be dead wrong and misleading to our readers. I place your words directly above mine, so everyone is on the same page and my words are understood within the framework of your previous comments. Please give us that luxury in your next thoughtful reply. Your Post #91 has no Scriptural references, so we are lost at the very beginning. Your statements here must be based upon something I said to you in Post #97 for which you obviously had no reply.

MrSnow >> Even in the OT, not every descendant of Israel was part of Israel.

Terral’s Reply >> A common denominator of many of your statements is declaring what is ‘not.’ Your statement here makes no sense at all! Every single descendant of Israel was certainly part of Israel. Otherwise the phrases like the “Whole House Of Israel” (Lev. 10:6, Ezekiel 37:11+12) makes no sense at all.

Now from these statements you want my explanation of Galatians 3:16:

Mr. Snow quotes > > Gal 3:16 Now the promises were made to Abraham and to his offspring. It does not say, "And to offsprings," referring to many, but referring to one, "And to your offspring," who is Christ.

Your statement above is “Even in the OT, not every descendant of Israel was part of Israel.” Now your quote speaks of promises made to Abraham and to his offspring. Who among Israel in the OT are you deciding to make ‘not’ a descendant of Israel? The Greek is ‘seed’ (sperma #4690) and ‘seeds’ here in Gal. 3 and not offsprings. Paul’s teaching concerns those named according to “Isaac” (Rom. 9:6-8) and NOT Israel of the flesh at all. Paul is leading the members of the “Body of Christ” into the truth of our heavenly inheritance for everyone who believes our gospel.

“But the Scripture has shut up everyone under sin, so that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe.” Galatians 3:22.

What has any of this to do with Israel of the flesh, blind (Rom. 11:7+8, 25) to these things, being raised and led into the Land of Jacob (Eze. 37:11-12)? Nothing! Paul is writing within the boundaries of a particular ‘context’ revealing aspects of the ‘wisdom given him’ (2Peter 3:14-16) that even Peter called “hard to understand.” Your original statement is based upon conditions present for Israel of the flesh, as the descendants of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob while living during the times of the Old Testament. There was no such thing as a ‘Body of Christ’ or any teachings that Christ is the “Seed” into whom ‘we’ (believers) are being baptized (Gal. 3:27) by the 'one spirit' (1Cor. 12:13). We require Paul’s insight into the mystery of Christ (Eph. 3:1-11) to even begin having that kind of advanced understanding of God’s Hidden Wisdom (1Cor. 2:6-8). The truth is that ‘all’ (1Cor. 10:1-5) were baptized into Moses from Israel and the fathers, whether they were disobedient to Mosaic Law and 'laid low' OR if they were obedient to pass through the Jordan into the Promised Land.

Mr. Snow quotes >> Jos 21:43 Thus the LORD gave to Israel all the land that he swore to give to their fathers. And they took possession of it, and they settled there. Jos 21:44 And the LORD gave them rest on every side just as he had sworn to their fathers. Not one of all their enemies had withstood them, for the LORD had given all their enemies into their hands. Jos 21:45 Not one word of all the good promises that the LORD had made to the house of Israel had failed; all came to pass.

You appear to be basing this quote from my statements to Hismessenger in Post #101 where he said and I quoted Scripture saying,

Hismessenger >> If you are an astute studier of the word you would know that the nation Israel never comes to posses this land as given and it should point you in the direction of the truth.

Terral’s Reply >> Israel most certainly did already possess the Promised Land under Joshua and shall possess the Land again as prophesied in Ezekiel 47+48.

Terral’s Quote >> “So the Lord gave Israel all the land which He had sworn to give to their fathers, and they possessed it and lived in it.” Joshua 21:43.

Therefore, the person you should be asking for clarifying statements is Hismessenger who declared Israel never possessed the Promised Land. Israel of the flesh has been gathered to the edge of the Promised Land today in anticipation of Elijah returning (Mal. 4:5-6) to restore all things (Matt. 17:10-11), as the ‘prophet’ of Acts 3:19-26. That is when “After these things . . .” (Acts 15:16-18) of today the Holy Spirit will return and be upon Elijah exactly as Christ received the Helper in the Jordan at His baptism (Matt. 3:15-16). Elijah will begin preaching “Repent for the kingdom of heaven is at hand,” exactly like he did as John the Baptist 2000 years ago. The difference will be that Christ has already made the provisions for that restoration of the kingdom to Israel (Acts 1:6-7) by going to Calvary at His First Coming. :0) God has been restoring the ‘heavenly’ realm FIRST, by calling the members to the “BODY of Christ” (Eph. 4:12 = that’s us), which is what obedience of faith to Paul’s “my gospel” (Rom. 2:16, 16:25) is all about. Satan is about to be chained (Rev. 20:2) in the pit for 1000 years and we (body of Christ) are being prepared to occupy those vacated heavenly seats! Only then will Elijah begin restoring the ‘earthly’ counterpart as the Kingdom of God “on earth AS IT IS in heaven” (Matt. 6:10).

John the Baptist, Christ and the Twelve all preached the ‘gospel of the kingdom’ (Matt. 4:17, 9:35, Acts 8:12) to Israel of the flesh 2000 years ago, but that ‘early rains’ (James 5:7) kingdom ‘bride’ (John 3:29) was ‘cut off’ (Rev. 20:4). Paul’s “Dispensation of God’s Grace” (Eph. 3:2) superseded that Kingdom Dispensation, so the ‘heavenly’ places can be restored first. We are approaching the time when our mystery (1Cor. 15:51-53) Rapture (1Thes. 4:17) takes us off this earth, until we stand in judgment for our heavenly rewards (2Cor. 5:10). Elijah appears to restore all things, which includes the kingdom to Israel, during the 1000 Years Day of the Lord shaded in light blue. That is when the Temple of Ezekiel 40+ is restored with the Kingdom of Ezekiel 47+48. That is the Kingdom and Temple the antichrist comes to make desolate very near the ‘end of the age’ (Matt. 24:3+) in Matthew 24:15. Satan and all of his evil cronies go from being chained to incarnating onto this earth as mere men! You and I are seated in the heavenly places “IN” Christ Jesus (Eph. 2:6) to return with Him in glory (Col. 3:4) at the end of the age. Peter and the ‘early rains’ bride will be raised up with us to START the 1000 years, as they rule with the Lamb for the 1000 years from the sea of glass (Rev. 4:6, 15:2) “before the throne” (Rev. 7:14). Elijah’s ‘late rains’ bride is martyred to join Peter and the early rains bride on that sea of glass, until both groups are ‘one’ and joined to the Lamb at the 'Marriage Supper Of The Lamb' (Rev. 19:5-10) very near the end of the age. Only then can the ‘body of Christ’ (that’s us) AND the newly formed kingdom ‘bride’ (Peter, John, James and late rains bride) return with Christ in glory to defeat Satan and his cronies on this earth. :0) That is how Satan will be crushed under our feet (Rom. 16:20) very near the end of the age.

Israel took possession of the Promised Land (remnant of the Garden of Eden on the earth) under Joshua (incarnation of Adam) back in the Old Testament, exactly like they will again under Elijah coming to restore all things. However, that 1000 year kingdom of God on earth WILL HAVE AN END with the appearance of Satan (Dragon = Rev. 13 = spirit witness) and his ‘son of destruction’ (2Thes. 2:3+4 = Beast of Rev. 13 = blood witness) and their False Prophet (water witness) part of their unholy trinity incarnate on the earth as men. David (Adam) will be ‘cut off’ (Dan. 9:26) exactly like John the Baptist was beheaded 2000 years ago, as all of Daniel’s ‘end of the age’ (Dan. 12:11-13) prophecies are fulfilled like Christ predicts in Matthew 24:15. That is why you see a dozen references to ‘desolate’ and ‘desolation’ between David’s two installations as prince (Eze. 34:23-25) and ‘king forever’ (Eze. 37:24-28). The first installation is for the 1000 years shaded in blue, while the second installation is in the New Earth of Revelation 21:1+. All of those “IN” Adam in Genesis 2:7 (excepting those who are already IN Christ (body) via our gospel and bride via the gospel of the kingdom) will incarnate onto the New Earth to live out their lives as the members of his body.

The OT saints will be raised at the ‘Second Resurrection’ and given an inheritance in the New Earth and in Adam’s (David’s) kingdom, so they can become a Kingdom of Priests (water witnesses) and Prophets (spirit witnesses) in service to his throne “on earth AS IT IS (for the Lamb) in heaven.” Joshua and Caleb (dog) are types of Christ and His Gentile ‘body of Christ’ ascending through the First Veil (between earth and heaven) into the Promised Land IN HEAVEN. :0) The Body of Christ has a ‘heavenly’ destiny to fulfill in judging (1Cor. 6:2-3) the world (water witnesses) and the angels (their spirit witness greater halves) exactly like Israel will be doing on the earth under David in his earthly kingdom for Jews (water witnesses) and Gentiles (spirit witnesses). Israel has the ‘earthly’ inheritance, because the Lord God (Christ) is MAKING THEM JEALOUS (Deut. 32:21, Rom. 10:19, 11:11, etc.) by making them WORK and WORK and WORK for the same things given to the ‘body of Christ’ for free. The ‘bride’ MUST be judged for their works to jump over the dividing line (First Veil) between the earth and heaven, but those of us “IN” Christ Jesus (Eph. 2:6 = body) are baptized into Christ (Gal. 3:27) even now. :0) The truth is that Israel of the flesh in the OT represents the descendants of Jacob to a tee. However, Israel named according to the Promise and Isaac are “sons of God” (Rom. 8:14, 19, Gal. 3:26) with citizenship in heaven (Phil. 3:20) or the ‘heavenly’ counterpart where Israel of the flesh will eventually join us by WORKS (James 2:20-24) by joining the ‘kingdom bride.’

In Christ Jesus,

Terral

 

[Hismessenger]

Terral,

WHAT EARTH ? the scripture that I posted say this earth will be no more. Is God's word untrue. How can Israel inherit something they can't even remember?
All your charts are theology based and not given by the Holy Spirit. Ask Him to show you HIs truth. He will not deceive you nor lie to you.

hismessenger

 

[Terral]

Hi Hismessenger:

Hismessenger >> WHAT EARTH ? the scripture that I posted say this earth will be no more.

Hismessenger quoted >> Isa 65:17For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.

You are guilty of reading only the highlighted portions of your selected verses. What about the rest of the verse? “For, behold, I create a NEW HEAVENS and a NEW EARTH”????? The old is passing away to make room for the new! This current earth has a “Promised Land” (Gen. 15:18), which is a ‘water witness’ (helper) component testifying about the triune “Garden Of Eden.” What makes you believe for one second that God is going to create a “new earth” without the corresponding “Promised Land” that will contain David’s “forever” (Eze. 37:24-28) kingdom? Adam (Gen. 2:7) and the garden (Gen. 2:8) were made for each other exactly like David was made for the kingdom of God on earth, because Adam and David are incarnations of this entire universe in one man from God. :0) Isaiah 65:18+19 read right along with verse 17 above.

Hismessenger quoted >> Isa 66:22For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain.

God will create the new heavens and new earth, so Israel and her seed, Jerusalem and David the king remain forever. The important thing to realize is that this universe will be remade at the end of EVERY AGE. The transition between Revelation 20 and 21 represents only the recreation of this universe between this current ‘evil age’ (Gal. 1:4) and the coming new age. However, you can see Scripture speaks about ‘in the ages to come’ (Eph. 2:7). All physical matter in our current broken universe has ‘red shift’ characteristics, as each heavenly host is generally moving away from all the others. However, in the new creation every particle of reconstituted matter will begin its trek back to the center of the universe and obtain ‘blue shift’ qualities, so that the ages to come will see every speck of visible and invisible matter rejoined back together into the perfect ‘Eth-Erets (the Earth) of Genesis 1:1. The Father, Son and Holy Spirit will all perish, because They will become “The Word” of John 1:2, as all things (Father, Holy Spirit, This Universe) are subjected back to the Son (1Cor. 15:27). That is the mystery process through which this universe (heavens, heaven and earth) are being restored into the ‘son of God’ (Luke 3:38) who was murdered by Satan in God’s Infinite Realm. I know this is a difficult series of concepts to accept, but this is the only interpretation that says exactly what God says “Word for word” without creating a single contradiction.

Hismessenger quotes >> 2Pe 3:13Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness

First of all, quoting a ton of verses apart from offering your meaningful commentary really accomplishes nothing, because everyone here reads those same verses using their own interpretations. You have over concentrated on the old earth passing away, but have created no room in your own theology for the ‘new earth’ where the Kingdom of God “on earth AS IT IS in heaven” shall be remade again and again and again for each and every age to come. Here is the mystery diagram exercise showing how This Creation (‘Eth Erets = Gen. 1:1) is Adam.

The exercise above (Post #104) showed how “The Logos” is The Heaven of Genesis 1:1 containing this entire universe ( http://s29.photobucket.com/albums/c266/Terral03/?action=view&current=18.jpg ) and holding all things together “IN” Him. Colossians 1:17. The Word was sacrificed to become the Father (spirit witness) and Holy Spirit (water witness), so their reunion called the “Only Begotten Son” into existence (like Luke 1:35). This exercise pertains to “The Earth” of Genesis 1:1 that existed in this perfect Singularity Expression form for countless perfect ages, until Satan pierced him and darkness was upon the face of the deep. Genesis 1:2. The ‘deep’ is the perfectly round ‘event horizon’ where the original two witnesses (spirit and water) last touched at the separation and the first place where the two seas meet upon being rejoined back together again to create this:

The waters above the expanse are called ‘the heavens’ (Gen. 1:9) and the waters below the heavens are called ‘the earth’ in precise accordance with the Heaven and Earth of Genesis 1:1.

When you turn the three witnesses of This Creation to place the spirit witness on top (like My Father for the Logos), then you can visualize our universe as a 'man sent from God' (John 1:6) who testifies about "His Invisible Attributes, His Eternal Power and Divine Nature." Romans 1:20. The spirit witness of our triune creation is the ‘heavens’ with the glory of God Himself described by David (incarnation of Adam):

“The heavens are telling of the glory of God; And their expanse is declaring the work of His hands.” Psalm 19:1.

“Be exalted above the heavens, O God; Let Your glory be above all the earth.” Psalm 57:5.

All of the ‘spirit witnesses’ in my mystery diagrams are color coded in bright golden yellow depicting the “Image and Glory of God,” as a common characteristic of the ‘triune’ relationship. Man is the spirit witness in the family unit having the ‘image and glory of God’ (1Cor. 11:7), while woman must wear a symbol of authority over her head (1Cor. 11:10), because she is the glory OF MAN (water witness). That symbol of authority represents the ‘First Veil’ of the Tabernacle of Moses and the Temple, which typifies the division of earth (water witness) and heaven (blood witness) of Genesis 1:1 (Highest Heaven = 1Kings 8:27) AND the division between the heaven and earth of Genesis 1:6-8. Adam (spirit witness) stands in the ‘image and glory of God’ position, when Eve (water witness) and her seed (blood witness) were taken from his side in Genesis 2:20-22. Adam depicts the ‘angels’ who were not deceived (1Tim. 2:14), while the woman (like the earth) fell into transgression to find herself in subjection to her spirit witness counterpart. The visible universe (water witness) has the same ‘relationship’ to the invisible universe (heavens) that woman has to man and the Holy Spirit has to the Father and the water of the Laver (in Court) has to the oil of anointing in the Temple Sacrifices. Your Bible is literally filled from Genesis to Revelation with a constant stream of three witness mystery sets, once God opens your eyes to see them.

My post on how the mystery diagrams work can be found here ( http://www.christian-forum.net/index.php?showtopic=9135 ) with a full explanation here ( http://www.divshare.com/download/720180-3d0 ).

Hismessenger >> Is God's word untrue. How can Israel inherit something they can't even remember?

Of course every Word from God is true without question. However, your interpretation of Scripture is the focus of our disagreement. :0) God’s promises of a New Earth and Israel’s inheritance in that new creation has nothing to do with Israel’s ability to remember anything. The New Earth will have a garden like Genesis 2:8 and Adam (David) will rule from his throne on that New Earth, until the end of the age when everything is remade again. All of the ages to come will find God’s chosen race living under Adam in the Kingdom of God “on earth AS IT IS in heaven.” That is why the Lord God (Christ = Gen. 2:4+) formed the ‘son of God’ (Luke 3:38) and the garden in the first place (Gen. 2:7+8).

Hismessenger >> All your charts are theology based and not given by the Holy Spirit.

Sticks and stones . . . “Quote >>” anything from my work and offer your rebuttals using any evidence you wish. You present yours and I will do the same and our readers can judge both sides to see if either is approved (1Cor. 11:19) to God (2Tim. 2:15). The substance of my mystery diagrams was given by God through His Word (F+S+HS) by “Christ in me” (Col. 1:27) and the “mind of Christ” (1Cor. 2:16). What our readers do not see are other registered members routinely quoting from my work to prove anything wrong using Scripture. 2Tim. 2:15. Everyone here is encouraged to take their best shot. :0)

Hismessenger >> Ask Him to show you HIs truth. He will not deceive you nor lie to you.

What kind of advice is that coming from someone merely casting accusations based on no evidence whatsoever? Now you can begin quoting me and proving any error at all in any of my mystery diagrams, or your false accusations will certainly fall back upon you. A simple reading from the final words of Daniel prove my case for Israel inheriting the Promised Land in the New Earth:

"From the time that the regular sacrifice is abolished and the abomination of desolation is set up (Matt. 24:15), there will be 1,290 days. How blessed is he who keeps waiting and attains to the 1,335 days! But as for you, go your way to the end; then you will enter into rest and rise again for your allotted portion at the end of the age." Daniel 12:11-13.

The Christ marks the ‘end of the age’ (Matt. 24:3+) and His coming (Matt. 24:30-31) with the final judgment, saying,

"But when the Son of Man comes in His glory (Matt. 24:30-31), and all the angels with Him, then He will sit on His glorious throne. All the nations will be gathered before Him; and He will separate them from one another, as the shepherd separates the sheep from the goats; and He will put the sheep on His right, and the goats on the left. Then the King will say to those on His right, 'Come, you who are blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world.” Matthew 25:31-34.

That final judgment takes place when the ‘heavens and earth pass away’ (Matt. 24:35, Rev. 20:11+), which makes room for the New Heavens and New Earth of Revelation 21:1+. Ezekiel describes Israel’s resurrection, saying,

“Then He said to me, "Son of man, these bones are the whole house of Israel; behold, they say, 'Our bones are dried up and our hope has perished. We are completely cut off.' Therefore prophesy and say to them, 'Thus says the Lord God (Christ), "Behold, I will open your graves and cause you to come up out of your graves, My people; and I will bring you into the land of Israel.” Ezekiel 37:11-12.

Jesus Christ is the Lord God and the “Son of Man” coming to destroy Satan and his cronies at the ‘end of the age.’ This current heavens and earth WILL PASS AWAY and God will remake this creation to be conformed to ‘our’ glory.

“For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory that is to be revealed to us. For the anxious longing of the creation waits eagerly for the revealing of the sons of God. For the creation (The Earth of Genesis 1:1 = Adam) was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it, in hope that the creation itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption into the freedom of the glory of the children of God.” Romans 8:18-21.

Daniel, Ezekiel and Paul are all prophesying about the same New Heavens and New Earth of Revelation 21:1+ where this universe is transformed from its current slavery to corruption into the freedom of THE GLORY of the children of God. Christ is the “IMAGE of the Invisible God” (Col. 1:15) and ‘we’ (body of Christ) are being conformed to “the image of His Son” (Rom. 8:29), so creation itself can be transformed back into the perfection of Adam’s Singularity Expression as ‘Eth Erets (The Earth) of Genesis 1:1. What begins with a seed and a spark of Light in the sons of God in the New Creation of Revelation 21:1+ will be multiplied exponentially throughout all the ages to come, until eventually every particle of matter in this universe is summed up “IN” Christ Jesus (Eph. 1:9-10) and subjected to the Son (1Cor. 15:27), until even He (The Word = F+S+HS) is subjected back to His God and Father and God is once again “all in all” (1Cor. 15:28).

In Christ Jesus,

Terral

 

[Hismessenger]

Terral,

That's right Terral a New Heaven and a New Earth. Does it say that it will have the same attributes as the old? Your assumption is the same as most make. The earth in the beginning was a spiritual thing. The earth in the end will also be a spiritual thing. The word says that God has things for His chosen you can't even imagine. So tell us what the new heaven and earth will be like and what exactly it is of the land will we inherit?

I will say this to those who are reading this, Heaven is a state of mind and the earth is your bodies in their glorified state. My thoughts are not your thoughts. The carnal mind is enmity with God and cannot know the true things of the spirit for they only look for that which is seen, both in word and in deed but never in the spirit.

hismessenger

 

[Terral]

Hi Hismessenger:

Hismessenger >> That's right Terral a New Heaven and a New Earth. Does it say that it will have the same attributes as the old? Your assumption is the same as most make.

Really? And how did Hismessenger arrive at that conclusion? The fact is that my views on this topic are more highly developed than ‘most.’ Hismessenger did not even quote one word from Post #107, which is the case for my points in Post #104 and #105 and so on. Your recent reply (Post #108) has no Scriptural references or anything resembling an argument for or against Replacement Theology, just like Post #106 and #96.

Hismessenger >> The earth in the beginning was a spiritual thing. The earth in the end will also be a spiritual thing.

No sir. There is no way you could have possibly read and understood even the basics of what my ‘three witness’ arguments are teaching in my posts on this thread. “The Earth” (‘Eth Erets = Gen. 1:1) existed in a Singularity Expression form where the heavens (spirit), heaven (blood) and earth (water) were all THE SAME THING. The ‘spiritual’ aspects came into being with the ‘waters above the expanse’ in Genesis 1:6-9 we know today as the ‘heavens.’ All things ‘spiritual’ have a ‘water witness’ counterpart standing and testifying beyond the ‘blood witness’ enlarging between them. “My Father who is IN HEAVEN” (Matt. 10:32+33, etc.) is the ‘spirit witness’ of “The Logos” (The Word), who existed as “ONE” and the same thing (The Word) with the Holy Spirit (water witness) and the Son (blood witness), “before the world was” (Jn 17:5). There was no such thing as ‘angels’ during the perfect ages of Genesis 1:1, because angels and men were the ‘same thing’ during the time the heavens, heaven and earth were also the ‘same thing.’ Angels and men only came into existence with the ‘fall’ and ‘deluge’ of Genesis 1:2 where those Singularity Expressions were ‘divided’ into the spirit witness (angels = hosts of the heavens) and water witness (men = hosts of the earth) counterparts. Where is the ‘blood witness’ counterpart taught from the mystery diagrams? Creation groans in anticipation (anxious longing of creation = Romans 8:19) of the appearing of the sons of God (that’s us), because we represent the ‘new creatures’ (2Cor. 5:16-17) part of the ‘new creation’ (Gal. 6:15), as the members of the “body of Christ” called and glorified (Rom. 8:28-30) to judge the world (men) and the angels (their greater heavens halves). 1Cor. 6:2+3. God has created us IN Christ Jesus (Eph. 2:10) by merging our ‘water witness’ weaker vessels (physical existence = perishable) with our ‘spirit witness’ (heavens counterpart) angelic host, so this perishable puts on imperishable and this mortal puts on immortality (1Cor. 15:51-53). We have no inheritance in the heavens or in the earth, because BOTH of those realms are TEMPORAL and have AN END. Our lives are hidden with Christ IN GOD (Col. 3:1-3), or in “The Word” (John 1:2) in God of John 1:1 as Singularity Expressions. :0)

Hismessenger >> The word says that God has things for His chosen you can't even imagine. So tell us what the new heaven and earth will be like and what exactly it is of the land will we inherit?

You are attempting to quote from Paul’s very long statement concerning “God’s wisdom in a mystery” (1Cor. 2:7) “which none of the rulers of this age has understood; for if they understood it they would NOT have crucified the Lord of Glory.” 1Cor. 2:8. Paul goes on to say,

“. . . but just as it is written, “Things which eye has not seen and earth has not heard, and which have not entered the heart of man, all that God has prepared for those who love Him. For to us God revealed them through the Spirit; for the Spirit searches ALL THINGS, even the depths of God. For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him? Even so the thoughts of God no one knows EXCEPT the Spirit of God.” 1Corinthians 2:9-11.

When you read Paul’s lesson about “Christ in you” (Col. 1:24-27) concerning “The Mystery” (Eph. 3:3, Col. 1:26), then you will perhaps realize the ‘mature’ (1Cor. 2:6) members of Christ’s body are the ‘sons of God’ to whom ‘these things’ (2Peter 3:14-16) ARE being revealed. This is the very reason the ‘evangelists, pastors and teachers’ have been given to the ‘body of Christ’ in the first place:

“And He gave some as apostles, and some as prophets, and some as evangelists, and some as pastors and teachers, for the equipping of the saints for the work of service, to the building up of the body of Christ; until we all attain to the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a mature man, to the measure of the stature which belongs to the fullness of Christ.” Ephesians 4:11-13.

The basic knowledge about the “Son of God” is that He (Christ Jesus) is the Father (spirit witness), Son (blood witness) and Holy Spirit (water witness) all joined together and “the three are into the one” (1Jn 5:8). In short: The very things hidden from the ears and eyes of mere mortal men are being revealed in all of my mystery diagrams showing how ‘all things’ exist today in a series of ‘triune’ forms (spirit, blood and water witnesses) testifying about their ‘pre-fall’ Singularity Expression. The Father, Son and Holy Spirit are TEMPORAL expressions of “The Word” representing “Heaven” (Gen. 1:1) in the very same way the heavens, heaven and earth are testifying about “The Earth” (Gen. 1:1). The three witnesses of “The Almighty” (God To Come, God Who Is, God Who Was = Rev. 1:8) are testifying about “My God” (John 20:17) who raised our Lord Jesus Christ (F+S+HS) from the dead. Romans 10:9. The day is coming when all of God’s heavenly and earthly hosts read and grow in His Living Word through the understanding of all the ‘three witnesses’ mystery sets of Scripture, whether you realize that today or not.

Hismessenger >> I will say this to those who are reading this, Heaven is a state of mind and the earth is your bodies in their glorified state.

No sir. “Heaven” (Gen. 1:1) is The Word sent to recreate just ‘one’ son of God (Luke 3:38 = Adam) IN Himself as “The Earth” of Genesis 1:1, as the “Highest Heaven” of 1Kings 8:27. All things in this universe are held together IN Christ (F+S+HS = The Word) taught in Colossians 1:17, because Christ Jesus Himself is A REALM containing this entire universe.

Here is a more complete diagram teaching the ‘relationships’ between the three witness mystery sets of this simplified version ( http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c266/Terral03/18.jpg ). The summing up of all things (Eph. 1:9-10) and the subjection of all things to the Son (Col. 15:27) includes all of the veil lines in this diagram disappearing, so all of those three witness mystery sets revert back to their previous ‘Singularity Expression’ forms of Genesis 1:1. That is how the end (1Cor. 15:28) and the beginning (John 1:1) are One and the same. :0) To teach that heaven is a state of mind and the earth is your glorified body is not a case you can prove using Scripture or any mystery diagram. The two charts in Post #107 contain long lists of Singularity Expressions (first column) currently broken down into their three witnesses (spirit, blood and water), NOT because of what God has hidden, but because of the ‘eyes from God’ through which He is allowing me to see. In each case the ‘blood witness’ group is enlarging to sum up their spirit and water witness counterparts, so that particular group can attain to their original Singularity Expression form through this mystery ‘process.’ When you put on immortality (1Cor. 15:53), then Hismessenger will no longer have a spirit or a body, but you will become a “living soul” like Adam was created for the Garden (Gen. 2:7+8) ‘before’ Eve (water witness) or her seed (blood witness) were taken from his side (Gen. 2:20-22).

Hismessenger >> My thoughts are not your thoughts.

We agree. :0)

Hismessenger >> The carnal mind is enmity with God and cannot know the true things of the spirit for they only look for that which is seen, both in word and in deed but never in the spirit.

Please support your assumptions using Scripture (2Tim. 2:15), so the rest of us can determine how your statements are aligned with God’s Living Word. Remember the ‘topic’ is about whether we agree or disagree with the man-made ‘Replacement Theology’ dogma that our ‘body of Christ’ mystery church has replaced Israel of the flesh. Thank you and God bless you,

In Christ Jesus,

Terral

 

[Hismessenger]

Terral,

Your right again, this topic is about replacement theology of which your charts fall smack into the realm of. Did the holy spirit show you those charts and explain them or did some man. Is your revelation by the spirit or by mans doctrine.

Israel has always been about the children of promise. The called out ones, not of the flesh but of the spirit.
I posted the scripture earlier and you simply choose to disregard it for the doctrines of men. It's not replacement. It is identifying the people of God. Why do you think that the word says that all Israel, those born of the flesh, are not Israel. So if they are not Israel, Who Is? The word tells us who is. The children of promise.

Maybe we need to start there. Who do you say Is Israel?

hismessenger

 

[Terral]

Hi Hismessenger:

Hismessenger >> Your right again, this topic is about replacement theology of which your charts fall smack into the realm of. Did the holy spirit show you those charts and explain them or did some man. Is your revelation by the spirit or by mans doctrine.

First of all, my posts on this thread include a lot more than just my mystery diagrams. You have been encouraged to ‘quote >>’ from any of my work to point out any errors using Scripture. 2Tim. 2:15. Secondly, the purpose for each of my presentations on this thread has been to show the vast differences between Israel of the flesh and our Body of Christ as two separate ‘dispensations’ under God. Israel of the flesh has an inheritance in the “Land of the Garden” (Gen. 2:8), the “Promised Land” (Gen. 15:18) or the “Land of Israel” (Ezek. 37:11+12). However, our citizenship is in heaven (Phil. 3:20) and in “His HEAVENLY Kingdom” (2Tim. 4:18). In short, Replacement Theology is A MYTH perpetuated by men trying to replace our ‘heavenly’ destiny with the visible things of this earth. The substance of my mystery diagrams came from “God IN Christ” (2Cor. 5:19) IN “Christ IN me” (Col. 1:27). You cannot place the tag of ‘man’s doctrine’ upon my work, because all of my diagrams were drawn by my hand and part of no other man’s ministry. These illustrations are just a few of eighty from my 700 pages manuscript “The Mystery Explained,” which anyone can download for free here http://www.divshare.com/download/720180-3d0 .

Hismessenger >> Israel has always been about the children of promise.

No sir. How can you sit there and type out these half-truths? Paul differentiates between Israel of the flesh and the children of promise in Romans 9:1-8. Paul calls Israel of this earth “my kinsmen according to the flesh, who are Israelites . . .,” but those believing our gospel are “children OF GOD” (Rom. 9:8) named according to Isaac! Here is yet another grand opportunity to gain some insight into “The Mystery” (Eph. 3:3) and the “Mystery of Christ” (Eph. 3:4, Col. 4:3), because even Abraham (spirit witness), Isaac (blood witness) and Jacob (water witness) are ‘three into the one’ (1Jn 5:8) witnesses of God. If you go back up to Post #107 and revisit the two charts with the list of three witness mystery sets, you will find Abraham, Isaac and Jacob testifying about the “Chosen Race” in the forth row from the bottom of the second chart. Israel of the flesh is taken from Jacob/Israel the ‘water witness,’ while our Body of Christ (directly below Isaac in the chart) is taken from Isaac the ‘blood witness’ who typifies Christ in the Father, Son and Holy Spirit three witness mystery set. Jesus Christ came offering the ‘Gospel of the Kingdom’ (Matt. 4:23, 9:35) to Israel ONLY, which appears in the “Message Of Truth” water witness position. The Judgment (2Cor. 5:10) will reveal every word of my testimony to be truth, but not because any man invented any part of these illustrations or charts. If you move three rows down from the “Message Of Truth” singularity expression, then you find “God In Christ” testifying about “Christ In You” and “You” as the water witness helper (bondservant). All of the witnesses in each column (spirit, blood and water) are testifying about all of the other witnesses on their side of the veil AND the two witnesses in their triune family unit. This explains why my Bible is “Living AND Active,” (Heb. 4:12 = my signature verse) because even Scripture has a ‘triune’ nature revealed atop the second chart in the very first row.

HisMessenger >> The called out ones, not of the flesh but of the spirit.

God’s ‘called out ones’ of the Old Testament are “Israel of the flesh” called out from the Gentiles via Abraham, Isaac and Jacob through the Twelve Patriarchs. God is calling out the Kingdom “Bride” (John 3:29) from Israel ONLY (Matt. 10:5-7, 15:24) using the “Gospel of the Kingdom” (Matt. 4:23, etc.) exactly like the diagrams predict. However, God is using Paul’s “Word of the Cross” (1Cor. 1:18) gospel message we preach today for calling the “Body of Christ” to a heavenly destiny far greater than anything promised to Israel of the flesh. Satan and his evil cronies of ‘this darkness’ (Eph. 6:12) are being ‘cut off’ and cast down and chained (Rev. 20:2), which will create a myriad of vacant seats IN THE HEAVENLY PLACES of this creation. Where is God going to get all of the hosts to fill the heavenly positions of the evil forces currently “passing away” (1Cor. 2:6-8)?? That is what the “BODY of Christ” (Eph. 4:12 = that’s us) is all about. :0) We have been called to a heavenly destiny far greater than anything promised to Israel of the flesh, as Scripture calls them hardened (Rom. 11:7) having a “spirit of stupor” (Rom. 11:8) possessing a “snare and a trap, and a stumbling block” (Rom. 11:9) promising “their eyes be darkened to see NOT” (Rom. 11:10) that they “bend their backs (works = James 2:20-24) forever.” Romans 11:10. But Hismessenger is giving Israel of the flesh ‘our’ heavenly inheritance, as if God never promised to “make them jealous” (Rom. 11:11 = Deut. 32:21, Rom. 10:19) at all. You pretend an aspect of “The Mystery” excludes the mystery of Israel’s BLINDNESS (Rom. 11:25) finding them on the sidelines looking in as God rewards us (Body of Christ) with “what are the riches of the glory of His inheritance in the saints” (Eph. 1:18) and a “share in the inheritance of the saints in Light.” Colossians 1:12.

Hismessenger >> I posted the scripture earlier and you simply choose to disregard it for the doctrines of men.

Your recent post (#110) is a mirror duplicate of post #106 and #108 using no Scripture at all. Your work in Post #102 includes six verses of ‘cut and paste’ Scripture apart from a single word of commentary as your explanation followed by a question. I addressed your concerns in Post #104 and had no reason to quote all of your verses, because they all say the very same thing as Isaiah 65:17 part of your “How are they to inherit something that won’t even be remembered . . .” offering. The fact is that my very long explanations are met with a few sentence of Hismessenger’s questions and opinions making this debate a very one-sided affair.

Hismessenger >> It's not replacement. It is identifying the people of God. Why do you think that the word says that all Israel, those born of the flesh, are not Israel. So if they are not Israel, Who Is? The word tells us who is. The children of promise.

You are attempting to offer commentary to Romans 9:1-8 where Paul describes Israel of flesh (Rom. 9:1-5) and our ‘Body of Christ’ as the children of promise. Israel of the flesh remains a dispensation of God’s chosen race OF THIS EARTH having nothing whatsoever to do with Paul’s “word of the cross” (1Cor. 1:18) gospel message. That is why Paul refers to Israel of the flesh in the third person throughout his Epistles to the Gentiles. Our “Body of Christ” represents every believer in our Gospel from Paul’s day to now and those scattered all over this planet as a living “Organism.” Israel of the flesh is still descended from Jacob born to Jewish mothers according to Mosaic Law. You are trying to give Israel of the flesh ‘our’ heavenly inheritance, as if ‘they’ are the children of promise. That is the folly of Replacement Theology from men who refuse to acknowledge the difference.

Hismessenger >> Maybe we need to start there. Who do you say Is Israel?

Paul describes Israel of the flesh and our Body of Christ as the children of promise in Romans 9:1-8. Why consult a mere man on the differences, when you have the Word of God written out so clearly? Paul addresses the “Jew” under Mosaic Law in Romans 2:17+, but there is no such thing as a Jew or Greek IN Christ Jesus (Gal. 3:28). Israel of the flesh is under Mosaic Law, until heaven and earth pass away (Matt. 5:17-19), but Christ is the END of the Law for everyone who believes (Rom. 1:16, 10:4) OUR GOSPEL. :0). We are part of the “Dispensation of God’s Grace” (Eph. 3:2) given to the Apostle Paul for our benefit, which he calls “this Mystery among the Gentiles” and “Christ IN you.” Colossians 1:27. The Replacement Theology MYTH blinds men from seeing the differences . . .

In Christ Jesus even now,

Terral

 

[Hismessenger]

Terral,

You didn't answer the question but used the skirt around, befuddled them with my many words tactic.

Pro 19:27 Cease, my son, to hear the instruction [that causeth] to err from the words of knowledge.

Rom 2:28For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither [is that] circumcision, which is outward in the flesh

Rom 2:29But he [is] a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision [is that] of the heart, in the spirit, [and] not in the letter; whose praise [is] not of men, but of God.[/quote]

It is a simple question and only requires a simple answer. Who do you say is Israel . DEFINE THE PEOPLE WHO MAKE UP ISRAEL.
Is that simple enough?


hismessenger

 

[OnceUponAChristian]

Sounds like a roleplaying game convention here...yikes

 

[Terral]

Hi OnceUpon:

Once >> Sounds like a roleplaying game convention here...yikes

Yikes! is Right. :0) I have had it with trying to explain my interpretations to someone who cannot even define Israel of the flesh. The members of our “Body of Christ” (Eph. 4:12) part of the “Dispensation of God’s Grace” (Eph. 3:2) are those among us obedient to our gospel, which has nothing to do with Israel as a people and nation whatsoever. Perhaps Hismessenger simply likes asking the same rhetorical questions over and over again . . .

In Christ Jesus,

Terral

 

[Hismessenger]

The rubber has hit the road. Define Israel as per the scripture using only scripture and not conjecture.

hismessenger

 

[Hismessenger]

Deu 7:6 For thou [art] an holy people unto the LORD thy God: the LORD thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that [are] upon the face of the earth.

Deu 14:2 For thou [art] an holy people unto the LORD thy God, and the LORD hath chosen thee to be a peculiar people unto himself, above all the nations that [are] upon the earth.

1Pe 2:9But ye [are] a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light

1Pe 2:10Which in time past [were] not a people, but [are] now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.

1Pe 1:2Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

peculiar or, purchased. Deu 4:20; Deu 7:6; Deu 14:2; Deu 26:18,19; Act 20:28; Eph 1:14; Tts 2:14

Rom 9:6¶Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they [are] not all Israel, which are of Israel:


Rom 9:7Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, [are they] all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.

Rom 9:8That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these [are] not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

Amo 9:9 For, lo, I will command, and I will sift the house of Israel among all nations, like as [corn] is sifted in a sieve, yet shall not the least grain fall upon the earth.

Rom 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

I have given sufficient scripture for those reading to see a picture of who makes up the people Israel.

hismessenger

 

[Hismessenger]

Terral,

you said in post # 111 that the Israel of the flesh are under the Mosiac law. You also said that until heaven and earth pass away, so then exlplain to us what they become when they believe in Jesus and what are the precepts that they are governed by if they are still under the Mosiac law?

You then go on to say that Christ is the end of the law to those who believe. Can you not see a double standard that you are pushing as truth.



hismessenger

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

The Replacement Theology MYTH blinds men from seeing the differences . . .

Read Hebrews/Revelation to see what is being "replaced"

http://www.scripture4all.org/

Hebrews 7:12 for the priesthood being changed, of necessity also, of law a change doth come,

Matthew 26:3 Then the chief priests, the scribes, and the elders of the people assembled at the Court of the high priest, who was called Caiaphas,

Reve 11:2 and, the Court [Court of Priests/Altar of Burnt Offerings?] the one within/eswqen <2081> the Sanctuary, be you Casting Out!! [#1537-#906 ek-bale] out-side,[exw #1854]

http://www.kingdombiblestudies.org/priest/RP1.htm
The ROYAL PRIESTHOOD

 

[Hismessenger]

LittleLambofJesus and others.

I am in no way pushing a replacement doctrine. I am simply defining the true Israel from the beginning as shown in the scriptures. The true Israel has always been made up of believers in the God of Abraham Issac and Jacob, regardless of their bloodline. This is bourne out in many places in the old testament. The One that comes to memory is the stranger who abides with you and seeks to keep the passover. If He obeyed the will of God they became as one born in the land. In otherwords they were adopted in just as they are still adopted in in the new testament. By FAITH. Not works or keeping the things of the law. For we all have failed and come short in that venue.

hismessenger