Repentace and Obedience

[Striving1324]

All of us are wicked, sinful, murderous, God-hating Hell headed sinner--Naturally.

While we were still sinners CHRIST DIED FOR US.

We need to REPENT and start OBEYING!!

 

[bluegreysky]

we're still sinners even now... that's what the grace is for. As humans, we are all fallible, and will make mistakes constantly whether or not we are "born again", and its good that you recognize that. The key is just to keep your eyes on God, tell him you're sorry for your mistakes regularly, and continue to let him guide you to whatever plan he has.
Sometimes, obeying is hard or even confusing. Sometimes God seems farther away or the right choice is hazy and un-clear. That's where we need that grace most...

 

[gideons300]

Agreed with your premise, but here is the fly in the ointment.

How? How does God intend that we obey? Are Christians just to "white-knuckle" it, no matter if we do it grudgingly, or is there a hidden higher holier way to true obedience, the obedience that honors God?

I am personally convinced that there is far more truth to the words of Christ where he tells us "Without me, you can do nothing". We must remember it is not "to him that willeth, or him that runneth, but to God who shows mercy."

If our obedience is rooted in the fact that if we just try harder, we will become good Christians, we are in for another lap in the wilderness. It is when we finally realize the depth of our hidden rebellion and stubborn strength of the flesh that we can, in humility and faith, believe in the promises of God alone....that we are indeed new creatures in Christ and that we can indeed do all things thru Christ that strengtheneth us.

Sadly, I think much of our gospel has slowly eroded into a religious acetic self-effort and self flagellation without a basic realization that we CANNOT truly be transformed into His image without faith in His exceeding great and precious promises. Until we, like the prodigal son, break before our Lord and admit the true powerlessness and rebellion hidden in our old man, and by faith put him off and by faith believe in the power of the new man...Christ IN us, right now, we will continue to dine at the hog trough.

One thing I have found through trial and error...much error...is that it is truly when we get weak before our God that we find the secret of real strength...His strength.

God bless....

 

[ydouxist]

we're still sinners even now... that's what the grace is for.

Rather than debate with you, can you show me in scripture where Saints are referred to as sinners?
Granted we were ALL sinners, but not once we have been redeemed. We are suppose to take on Christs nature and die to self.

 

[more excellent way]

What if...
.......................a Christian doesn't have to FORCE themselves to comply to God's will?....(the concept of "OBEY" or else...an ultimatum....is only a technicality to them).

What about people (unbelievers also) who don't have to be FORCED to be Godlike (peaceful and just) in their behavior?

Romans 2:14
"When Gentiles who have not the law do by nature what the law requires, they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the law".

Too much emphasis has always been placed on the concept of FORCED COMPLIANCE TO "BOOKS"/scripture text (replacing a WILLINGNESS to be Godly...a Godly NATURE/demeanor/spirit).

2 Corinthians 9:7......(hypocrites give assistance GRUDGINGLY because they are FORCED, not WILLINGLY/cheerfully)...

"Each one must do as he has made up his mind, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver".

When GOD'S SPIRIT can relate to OUR spirit, His spirit can train us to know Him better.....

Romans 8:16
"it is the Spirit himself bearing witness with our spirit that we are children of God".

Must we "OBEY" or have a Christlike NATURE/demeanor? Many use books and commands in order to COMPLY (and FORCE a Godly 'PERSONALITY' with "fruits" of GOD'S SPIRIT, but they don't have any "fruit" of their own)....

Ephesians 5:8 and 9
"walk as children of light (for the fruit of light is found in everything that is GOOD AND RIGHT AND TRUE)".

Luke 15:7
"Just so, I tell you, there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous persons who need no repentance".....

.....(a Godly NATURE has no no need to repent, only a Godly PERSONALITY?,..a person who has always been "good and right and true" has nothing to repent of unless others are prudish in judging them).

We have the FINAL (ONCE and for all) cleansing (Jesus), the Israelites didn't.....

Hebrews 10:2
"If the worshipers had once been cleansed, they would no longer have any consciousness of sin".

The sin laws and all "rules" (of worship style/conduct..."ordinances") were abolished. They were replaced by the "law of LIBERTY"....

Ephesians 2:15
"by abolishing in his flesh the law of commandments and ordinances".

James 1:25
"the perfect law".

James 2:12
"So speak and so act as those who are to be judged under the law of liberty".

Make no mistake about it, we MUST live under the law of liberty (there are no rules to the law of liberty...."LIBERTY"/freedom to be peaceful and just).

Even while John baptized, worshippers used books to force themselves to comply and make the kingdom "come to them"....

Matthew 11:12
"From the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven has suffered violence, and men of violence take it by force".

Yes, there is much room for more understanding.

All verses are from the RSV.

 

[gideons300]

Rather than debate with you, can you show me in scripture where Saints are referred to as sinners?
Granted we were ALL sinners, but not once we have been redeemed. We are suppose to take on Christs nature and die to self.

/quote]

Excellent post, I applaud you. To any who do not understand or accept this wisdom from God, I think the thing to remember is that our Christian walk is not just about forgiveness, as wonderful as it is. It is about cleansing... getting free from the old man so that we can truly be changed into the likeness of Christ.

We have been confused about the process of change. We erroneously think that we grow fromthe old man to the new man over our lifetime, sinning repenting, trying harder, over and over ad infinitum. But if that was the clase, would not the elders in the Lord be far and away more holy than those who have only walked in the Lord for a decade, or a year?

If we are honest with ourselves, we must admit that our theory fails the test of reality, so something is obviously out of whack in our undestanding.

The truth is that there is indeed a lifelong process...the process of being changed int His image, growing up into Him in all things, being changed into His image from "glory to glory". Please not, we are not changed from sinfulness to glory.

I have learned the hard way that no matter how much you fight the flesh, the lower nature, it learns no lessons. The only thing we can do with it is what the Bible tells us to do...put it off by faith and put on the new man, created in righteousness and holiness.

We are told to reckon oursleves dead indeed unto sin...not dying to it. Why do we yet fail when our hearts so want to walk pleasing to God? because our shield of faith...who we truly are in Christ...is lying in the corner, dusty and unused.

Do you remember what Paul said to us? "Now are you children of light. Walk as children of light." Unless we hold up our shjield that we are truly dead to sin, we shall never see victory.

One last comment. In Revelation 19, we are told "...and they overcame him (satan) by the blood of the lamb and the word of their testimony."

The blood of Jesus can provide our forgiveness but until we use his death as ours and with the words of our mouths confess that we are dead to sin and the old things are truly passed away, we will continue to wander, sometimes victoriouis, sometimes falling, an endless cycle.

Let us, like the two spies who refused to wilt in the presence of giants in the promised land, say :

"Our God has said that every step we take will be our possession. Let us go in and take the land."

 

[more excellent way]

Some people have God's laws written (peaceful coexistence...a holy nature) on their hearts...

"the covenant which I will make with the HOUSE of Israel after those days, says the LORD: I will put my law within them, and I will WRITE IT UPON THEIR HEARTS; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people" (Jeremiah 31:32).

No matter how many lies and misbeliefs have ever been taught in the churchES (the real church is not PLURAL) of man, The Lord has ensured that their relationship with Him is not harmed (The Lord looks at the heart).

They may have never even heard of...

1) the doctrine of Christ.

2) "maturity" as the term for spiritual growth.

3) God in His fullness/entirety.

4) the "anointing" (as the seed/DNA from our heavenly heritage).

5) the guarantee of our inheritance.

6) the better things that belong to salvation.

7) the depths of God (secrets/mysteries, the deeper message in scripture).

There is alot more truth that has always remained hidden since Antioch (when the disciples were first called Christians and the "moneychangers" retained control). After Antioch, the moneychangers always had their own agenda (our money).

The moneychangers need to maintain control of all of the "church" GOING (we do NOT 'go to' church, we ARE the church...the inner temple), and so (like governments), they use FEAR of God as a routine belief....

Jesus established the new worship temple in "three days" (John 2:19 and 21) in His own body. WE are the inner temple and there should be no public prayer. Our "worship" (God needs flattery???) relationship should be personal AND PRIVATE (we may still WISH/want to gather, but it is not REQUIRED)...

Amos 5:21
"I hate, I despise your feasts, and I take no delight in your solemn assemblies".

1 Corinthians 3:16
"Do you not know that you are God's temple and that God's Spirit dwells in you?".

Romans 14:22
"The faith that you have, keep between yourself and God".

Matthew 6:6
"But when you pray, go into your room and shut the door and pray to your Father who is in secret; and your Father who sees in secret will reward you".

God wants to be 'EVERYTHING SPIRITUAL' to each one of us...

1 Corinthians 15:28
"that God may be everything to every one".

God's spirit baptizes/consecrates the inner temple to the outer temple with the LIVING water that poured from Christ's side at the cross.....

1 John 5:6
"He came by water and blood".

John 7:38.......he who TRULY believes

"Out of his heart shall flow rivers of LIVING water".

Acts 1:5 is so we "neither thirst" (Revelations 7:16). That shall be our ONLY baptism, Ephesians 4:5 (and NO HUMAN BEING can perform it)..the moneychangers and their institutions aren't necessary for ANYTHING (maybe to help "babes in Christ", but they teach them lies).

Isaiah 29:13
"And the Lord said: "Because this people draw near with their mouth and honor me with their lips, while their hearts are far from me...their fear of me is a COMMANDMENT OF MEN learned by rote".


1 John 4:18
"PERFECT LOVE casts out fear".

Mark 12:30 (leave NO ROOM for FEAR OF GOD).....do not rationalize and justify YOUR WILL or 'THE BIBLE'S WILL' to fear "Abba Father" (we should not think of or know Him as MASTER/taskmaster, we should be a "friend", James 2:23...the spirit of sonship).

.........("reckon the number of the beast, for it is a human number (the number of a ........."6th day creation MAN"). The number 666 is not the number of a "new creation".

The three aspects of God (creation, salvation, spirit) have always been taught as though the 6th day creation is responsible for the heavenly gifts (666).

...(of course there will be one ultimate figure in charge of world domination, but WE/humanity's "flesh"/mortal weakness will ultimately be responsible for humanity's downfall).

It is not simply that humanity has been VICTIMS of the moneychangers, it's that the "churchGOERS" have been unwitting co-conspirators with the god of CONFUSION by letting all of their PRIDE (vain ego, vanity) of being 'study master', 'great teacher' pillars of intellect, and 'GODWORTHY' (equality) deserving of many 'gifts/fruits' that we have always dealt with the "strong delusion".

Philippians 2:6
"did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped".

The young Christian ("men of the flesh, babes in Christ", 1 Corinthians 3:1) should be TRAINED (2 Timothy 3:16) with the "doctrine of Christ" (the word "bible" is not found in scripture) and "fed" the "milk" of devotion, but after training, we should all move on ("go ahead") with spiritual growth ("maturity") because in the new covenant we have God IN ENTIRETY/completeness.

Hebrews 6:1
"Therefore let us leave the elementary doctrine of Christ and go on to MATURITY, not laying again a foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God".....

.......we should have a "FAITH for faith" (Romans 1:17, Hebrews 11:6) and a "more excellent" devotion (1 Corinthians 12:31) based on "the GREATEST of these" (continue reading chapter 13 to see what the "GREATEST" is,....God is LOVE, not "faith").

JESUS did "the works of God" (John 6:28) and our responsibility is let them be "manifest" in us by TRUSTING that they are sufficient to REST IN THE LORD (and be bored, John 9:3). JESUS's body is our sabbath rest (no more sabbath DAY).

The doctrine of Christ will always remain useful as a REFERENCE (and we still must "abide" in it), but it will no longer be an "authority" and shall not be designated "the word of God"....(the "Word" became flesh, not TEXT).

2 John 1:9
"Any one who goes ahead and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ DOES NOT HAVE GOD; he who abides in the doctrine has BOTH the Father and the Son".

God's spirit was given when Jesus was glorified (John 7:39).

The Israelites/Jews/Hebrews only had the heavenly Father to be devoted to, but WE (modern day CHRISTians) have God in entirety.

Colossians 2:9
"For in him the whole fulness of deity dwells bodily".

Neither the bible nor Paul, pastors, etc. hung on the cross and suffered the crown of thorns, nails, and spear....(give Jesus His due)...

Matthew 28:18
"And Jesus came and said to them, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me".

God provided us with His spirit in order to PREPARE us to receive our inheritance....

2 Corinthians 5:5
"He who has prepared us for this very thing is God, who has given us the Spirit as a guarantee".

Ephesians 1:14
"which is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it".

Luke 3:6
"and all flesh shall see the salvation of God".

Jesus made salvation available to everyone on earth (purification of the flesh), but when God's spirit teaches us each to properly use the knowledge that humanity has always misused since the Garden of Eden, our conscience will be purified also...

Hebrews 6:9
"better things that belong to salvation".

Hebrews 5:14
"But solid food is for the MATURE, for those who have their faculties trained by practice to DISTINGUISH good from evil".

...(distinction/discern is a DICHOTOMY (only 2 standards, 2 sided coin.....PRINCIPLES, Hebrews 5:12).

So the doctrine of Christ will no longer be our trainer, GOD'S SPIRIT will be our trainer and we will be able to DISTINGUISH/discern between what is GOOD and WHAT IS NOT (we will have that discerning "sword")...

Ephesians 6:17
"sword of the spirit"......("MY sheep HEAR my voice", John 10:27, don't be a 'climber', John 10:1).

...that is how God's eternal spirit enables us to have a clear conscience....

Hebrews 9:14
"purify your conscience".

JESUS is our ONLY foundation for ALL SPIRITUALITY, we should not set another foundation (as with "works"/deeds/self effort,...self "works" are DEAD) or go back to a system of "repentance" from spiritual sin (we can no longer repent from "sin", spiritual "sin" no longer exists)...

1 John 5:17
"All wrongdoing is sin, but there is sin which is not mortal"/spiritual/soul damaging.

So do not go back to a "sin/repentance" foundation with repentance and dead works, it is apostasy and will no longer do any good (spiritual benefit is "impossible").....

Hebrews 6:6
"if they then commit apostasy".

So, realize the fullness of God as your spiritual/heavenly heritage. At birth, we were all "in His image" (the 'seed' is still inside, but we have forgotten our origin....claiming mammon as our origin). Acknowledging our true origin/heritage will allow His spirit to be our teacher/trainer....

"the anointing which you received from him abides in you" (1 John 2:27).

...and then you will develop eyes to see and ears to hear the "depths of God" (1 Corinthians 2:10).

Because so much is wrong, The Lord will shake the "heavens" (all spirituality)....
http://www.blueletterbible.org/sear...n+order+that+what+cannot+be+shaken&t=RSV&sf=5

Nobody can actually be DEEMED (thought of as) perfect, but God RE-deemed us so that we would be able to return to Him in His 'place of perfection'/heaven. Nobody is perfect/"good" but God alone ("GOOD" is an absolute meaning PERFECT). "Heaven" starts down here on earth. Every day is 'judgement day" for all who are a law to themselves (sovereign and accountable to CONSCIENCE).

Many people find it easier to observe a 'LAW UNTO GOD'/bible instead of a law unto conscience because they never established a conscience....(a "law to themselves" is impossible because they are rebellious by nature....and refuse to change).....but will they recieve ETERNAL LIFE?

Devotion is not a 'behavior contest', it's about getting back in touch with the creator and letting Him have a relationship with you personally.

All verses are from the RSV.