Removing the laws of God- what does it really mean?

[SabbathBlessings]

I look forward to things becoming clearer in the days ahead. I believe Daniel prophesies that in the last days knowledge will increase.

Peace be with you!

You don’t have to wait, the scriptures are right in front of you now. More knowledge will increase, but final events will be quick, you don’t want to wait too long.

 

[Nathan@work]

If you are not obeying His laws than you are not obeying His Spirit. The letter is still required because its still a sin to lie or steal or vain His name, or worship idols, not keep His Sabbath holy etc. the difference with the New Covenant is our obedience is out of our love, not because its a commandment. We will know which spirit we are following through our actions and choices. God does not make those choices for us, which is why we are told to be doers, not hearers said by James while under the New Covenant James 1:22 But be doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving yourselves .

This question was asked to Jesus in the New Covenant and He replied:

Mathew 19:17 So He said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.” (its an action)

I think we can go around and around. If the Spirit is leading you to not sin and keeping all of God's commandments that's great, its what we all should strive for, but if you sin, that spirit is not led by God and I do not think its wise to think that it is, we still have to make choices, and God's Spirit wants us to keep His commandments because obedience is how we show God our love.

John 14:15-18
"If you love Me, keep My commandments. And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may abide with you forever— the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you. I will not leave you orphans; I will come to you.

1 John 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome.

John 15:10 Jesus said If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

The issue is you put the emphasis on the flesh instead of the Spirit.

You are saying that we look at the commandments to see if we are being led by the Spirit. That is walking by sight, not by Faith.

The reason this is an issue is that you, I, and everyone else is born corrupt and without the ability to discern good and evil. When you take that corrupt, flesh, view and apply it to the commandments, you are going to 'do' what 'you' think they mean.

Look no further than the one you hold higher than all the rest - the Sabbath.

The commandment specifically states to do no work. They were not even supposed to go out of their dwelling places - yet you admit you go to church. Why?

You pick and choose what you want the commandment to say, that is why. Jesus made this very clear when He spoke in detail of two commandments that most people probably thought they had kept their entire life.

When He showed them the commandments were not what they actually 'thought' they were, it astonished them.

Then along comes a young guy who thinks that he has kept all of them also, and when Jesus shows him how he is breaking them, he leaves sorrowful - but more important than that is the disciples realized a huge truth in that moment.

They realized that no one could be saved because no one could be perfect. Jesus lets them know that with man it is impossible, but with God, it is.

Our Faith is not in how we obey the commandments, it is in the Spirit leading us. The law written on our hearts is the Spirit He gives us - not words.

You are following words written on stone, not the Spirit, when you look to the Old Covenant. You will always be sorrowful, walking away from Christ just like the young ruler, when you do this.

Repentance is turning to Christ - not away from Him. You cannot serve two masters. You either follow the law, or you follow the Spirit. Only the Spirit will give you life.

 

[Nathan@work]

I think it will be clearer about the Sabbath in the days a head. Jesus wants to save all of us, but talks about the wide path that most find vs the narrow path that few follow. Look at these threads, when we point out the Sabbath started from creation Genesis 2:1-3, we point out the 4th commandment that God wrote says "Remember the Sabbath day to keep it Holy" Exodus 20:8-11 point out the scripture stating His covenant can not be broken Luke 16:17, Psalms 89:34, Psalms 111:7,8, point out where Jesus also kept the Sabbath Luke 4:16, where Jesus disciples kept the Sabbath Acts 16:13, Acts 17:2, point out Jews and Gentiles kept Sabbath Acts 13:42-44,Acts 18:4, point out that Jesus said the Sabbath was made for man Mark 2:27, point out that the Sabbath is a sign of God's people Ezekiel 20:20, point out its how we are sanctified Ezekiel 20:12, point out Jesus said (His own Words) if you want to enter life keep My commandments Mathew 19:17, point out the reference regarding Sabbath commandment after Jesus rose Luke 23:56, point out there are over 170 verses in the bible regarding Sabbath and only eight verses on the first day (nothing to do with holy or God's Sabbath) point out that in Heaven we will worship on God's chosen holy day each and every Sabbath Isaiah 66:23 yet people still do not believe. Much like the days of Noah, few believed, but all were called on.

There are some who do keep Sabbath and there are over 20 million SDA members and millions of others who still keep the seventh day Sabbath holy, but that is small compared to the billions of people on the earth.

The final events will be about God's seventh day Sabbath and the seal of God are His commandments, including keeping the seventh day holy, the true Lord's day. God wants to give everyone the choice to worship Him, but unfortunately many choose the wrong path. When it comes to really submitting your will and allowing your will to be God's, people just don't want to let go, despite letting go gives you so much more blessings than holding on to this world that will be no more some day soon.

SDA does not keep the Sabbath Holy.

The Sabbath is profaned by those who do not enter God's rest as He did.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

SDA does not keep the Sabbath Holy.

Jesus is the One who is going to decide that for all of us, only He is all knowing.

 

[pescador]

I don't think I'm having difficulty with those scriptures.

The issue that I'm putting forward is this:
If the commandment to do no work on the Seventh day is written on the hearts of Born again Christians, why do most of them seem unaware of it?

Part of this issue is what laws are written on our hearts?

I agree that obedience is critical, and that love is related to obedience.

But I didn't see in the scriptures that you posted an explanation of why so few Born again Christians seem aware of the Seventh day.

The Sabbath is supposed to be a day of rest but it can be interpreted by the individual, as Jesus demonstrated several times. If, as a Christian, you put yourself under the Mosaic law you are denying the truth in Christ.

 

[pescador]

SDA does not keep the Sabbath Holy.

The Sabbath is profaned by those who do not enter God's rest as He did.

Profaned? So Jesus, being God himself, is profaned because he "violated" the Sabbath by doing good?

 

[Nathan@work]

Jesus is the One who is going to decide that for all of us, only He is all knowing.

You are correct, only He is. Have you asked Him why you do the things you do? Or do you just base it off what you are taught by someone else? Or do you base it on the letter of the law?

 

[Nathan@work]

Profaned? So Jesus, being God himself, is profaned because he "violated" the Sabbath by doing good?

No, He did not violate the Sabbath.

Only He is good, therefore everything He does is perfect.

God rested from His work - not just rested. There is a difference.

I will rest from my job tomorrow, but I will not be resting from doing anything.

Jesus rested on the Sabbath in the same manner God did in creation. Therefore He did not violate the commandment.

 

[Leaf473]

God already spoke and any “new light” must be tested against scriptures.

Isaiah 8:20 To the law and to the testimony! If they do not speak according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

You seem to be underestimating the “other spirit” which is why if we keep and follow within the 66 books, the Holy Bible that is God’s Word you will not be deceived.

Yes, it is good to check out what God is saying to you now with what he has said to others in the past.

I think when we notice that God is saying something different to most other Christians than he is saying to us, it's time to reevaluate our understanding of what we thought he said in the past.

At least once, maybe more often, Paul tells the Corinthians "As in all the churches of the saints."

I think the implication is don't be an outlier.

When the Corinthians were having difficulties with spiritual gifts like prophecy, Paul says that people speaking by the spirit declare that Jesus is Lord. I think that's a good rule of thumb. Look around at the other churches of the saints who are loudly declaring that Jesus is Lord and see what they are doing.

 

[Leaf473]

You don’t have to wait, the scriptures are right in front of you now. More knowledge will increase, but final events will be quick, you don’t want to wait too long.

I'm not sure what you mean by wait. I am moving forward, walking day by day by the spirit. At least that's my goal.

Do you believe that we are currently in the time when the dragon has already pursued the woman into the wilderness and is now making war against the remnant of Christians that are left?

 

[pescador]

No, He did not violate the Sabbath.

Only He is good, therefore everything He does is perfect.

God rested from His work - not just rested. There is a difference.

I will rest from my job tomorrow, but I will not be resting from doing anything.

Jesus rested on the Sabbath in the same manner God did in creation. Therefore He did not violate the commandment.

But the Pharisees said that He did violate the Sabbath -- on several occasions. The Sabbath is intended to benefit us by giving us one day out of seven to not work, a concept unknown in Biblical times. It is not an order! If something should be done on the Sabbath then Jesus showed us it's okay.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

You are correct, only He is. Have you asked Him why you do the things you do? Or do you just base it off what you are taught by someone else? Or do you base it on the letter of the law?

Than you previously misspoke.

I base my beliefs on what God wrote for us and said was eternal. What Jesus reiterated on how we show love to Him. We show love to God, through our obedience, to me its just common sense. My father had rules too and when I disobeyed them, I showed him a lack of respect. When you obey it shows love and respect.

John 14:15-18
"If you love Me, keep My commandments. And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may abide with you forever— the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you. I will not leave you orphans; I will come to you.

1 John 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome.

John 15:10 Jesus said If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

I believe Jesus meant exactly what He asked of us and its not something He does for us, it based on our own actions to either sin or not sin, lie or not lie, keep His Sabbath holy or profane it. Honestly, I am trying to help you but I see you don't want it and that's okay.

Revelations 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

God bless

 

[Leaf473]

The issue is you put the emphasis on the flesh instead of the Spirit.

You are saying that we look at the commandments to see if we are being led by the Spirit. That is walking by sight, not by Faith.

The reason this is an issue is that you, I, and everyone else is born corrupt and without the ability to discern good and evil. When you take that corrupt, flesh, view and apply it to the commandments, you are going to 'do' what 'you' think they mean.

Look no further than the one you hold higher than all the rest - the Sabbath.

The commandment specifically states to do no work. They were not even supposed to go out of their dwelling places - yet you admit you go to church. Why?

You pick and choose what you want the commandment to say, that is why. Jesus made this very clear when He spoke in detail of two commandments that most people probably thought they had kept their entire life.

When He showed them the commandments were not what they actually 'thought' they were, it astonished them.

Then along comes a young guy who thinks that he has kept all of them also, and when Jesus shows him how he is breaking them, he leaves sorrowful - but more important than that is the disciples realized a huge truth in that moment.

They realized that no one could be saved because no one could be perfect. Jesus lets them know that with man it is impossible, but with God, it is.

Our Faith is not in how we obey the commandments, it is in the Spirit leading us. The law written on our hearts is the Spirit He gives us - not words.

You are following words written on stone, not the Spirit, when you look to the Old Covenant. You will always be sorrowful, walking away from Christ just like the young ruler, when you do this.

Repentance is turning to Christ - not away from Him. You cannot serve two masters. You either follow the law, or you follow the Spirit. Only the Spirit will give you life.

I think that's a good point when you talk about looking at the commandments to see if we are being led by the spirit. Jesus said his sheep know his voice. If the spirit is leading us, but we say hang on there, I'm going to use my own understanding to deal with some letters on paper or stone, maybe check out some things in Greek dictionaries etc., then I will follow, we are basically saying that we don't really know Jesus' voice when we hear it.

I think somewhere Paul says he wanted to go to a certain region but "the spirit of Christ prevented us". He doesn't immediately try to get to the nearest synagogue to find a copy of the scriptures to see if that was really the spirit of Christ. He just knew.

**************
Not only do the scripture speak of staying in your place and a "Sabbath Day's journey", but the law also says not to kindle a fire on the Sabbath. When I brought this up to "Sabbath keepers" in the past, they usually say not to be legalistic. So the Sabbath is kept in a modified form.

But in the wilderness, God said to kill the man that picked up sticks on the Sabbath.

 

[Nathan@work]

But the Pharisees said that He did violate the Sabbath -- on several occasions. The Sabbath is intended to benefit us by giving us one day out of seven to not work, a concept unknown in Biblical times. It is not an order! If something should be done on the Sabbath then Jesus showed us it's okay.

I am going to be very blunt here, but do you honestly think the Pharisees knew what was a violation and what was not?

The Sabbath was a day in which God set aside to point to the Son who He would send one day.

The Sabbath, as a command, was to exemplify the rest they would have in the coming Messiah.

Just like the Manna they ate was not only food for them back then, it was to show the bread of life from heaven - Jesus.

The water they drank back then, was to point to the living water of Christ.

When Jesus came, the ceremonial aspect of the command was dropped. The command still stands - as it has since creation - that we rest in Christ.

That is why people profane the Sabbath by looking at the demands of the 4th commandment in the flesh, keeping them for those demands, because in doing so they deny the rest we are to have in Christ from our works of righteousness.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with 'resting' on Saturday. I think it is a wonderful thing myself. But when it is done out of an obligation to the "law", it means you are choosing to be under bondage to the law - not Christ.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

I think that's a good point when you talk about looking at the commandments to see if we are being led by the spirit. Jesus said his sheep know his voice. If the spirit is leading us, but we say hang on there, I'm going to use my own understanding to deal with some letters on paper or stone, maybe check out some things in Greek dictionaries etc., then I will follow, we are basically saying that we don't really know Jesus' voice when we hear it.

I think somewhere Paul says he wanted to go to a certain region but "the spirit of Christ prevented us". He doesn't immediately try to get to the nearest synagogue to find a copy of the scriptures to see if that was really the spirit of Christ. He just knew.

**************
Not only do the scripture speak of staying in your place and a "Sabbath Day's journey", but the law also says not to kindle a fire on the Sabbath. When I brought this up to "Sabbath keepers" in the past, they usually say not to be legalistic. So the Sabbath is kept in a modified form.

But in the wilderness, God said to kill the man that picked up sticks on the Sabbath.

Kindling a fire is a lot of work, God never said He wanted us to be cold, just to do this on Friday so you would have heat on Sabbath. God wants our focus on Him each Sabbath, Isaiah 58:13 but if you are so focused on what others are doing or not doing on Sabbath, like the Pharisee's accused Jesus, instead of your own personal communion with God on His holy day than you are taking away from God's Spirit. We are told the wages of sin is death and breaking any of God's commandment is a sin. We have a Savior who is very forgiving, but He wants us to turn from sin, which is what you do when you have a changed heart. God bless

 

[Nathan@work]

I think that's a good point when you talk about looking at the commandments to see if we are being led by the spirit. Jesus said his sheep know his voice. If the spirit is leading us, but we say hang on there, I'm going to use my own understanding to deal with some letters on paper or stone, maybe check out some things in Greek dictionaries etc., then I will follow, we are basically saying that we don't really know Jesus' voice when we hear it.

I think somewhere Paul says he wanted to go to a certain region but "the spirit of Christ prevented us". He doesn't immediately try to get to the nearest synagogue to find a copy of the scriptures to see if that was really the spirit of Christ. He just knew.

**************
Not only do the scripture speak of staying in your place and a "Sabbath Day's journey", but the law also says not to kindle a fire on the Sabbath. When I brought this up to "Sabbath keepers" in the past, they usually say not to be legalistic. So the Sabbath is kept in a modified form.

But in the wilderness, God said to kill the man that picked up sticks on the Sabbath.

Exactly. The law is, and forever will be, modified in the mind of those who are not in Christ. It has to be, because that is the only way it does not 'feel' bad to us. The law brings death - that was what it was designed to do.

The purest example of this is Adam/Eve. They 'modified' the command in order to make it fit what they desired - it brought death to them.

Life in Christ is freedom from that bondage of us deciding what is right, and trusting Him to tell us what is right.

 

[Nathan@work]

Kindling a fire is a lot of work, God never said He wanted us to be cold, just to do this on Friday so you would have heat on Sabbath. God wants our focus on Him each Sabbath, Isaiah 58:13 but if you are so focused on what others are doing or not doing on Sabbath, like the Pharisee's accused Jesus, instead of your own personal communion with God on His holy day than you are taking away from God's Spirit. We are told the wages of sin is death and breaking any of God's commandment is a sin. We have a Savior who is very forgiving, but He wants us to turn from sin, which is what you do when you have a changed heart. God bless

God wants our focus on Him always - not just on Saturday.

If the difference of Saturday, between the rest of the weekdays, is that you focus on God instead of other things, then it should be a witness to you that you really do not see that God demands all of our focus.

[Deu 6:5 ESV] You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your might.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

God wants our focus on Him always - not just on Saturday.

If the difference of Saturday, between the rest of the weekdays, is that you focus on God instead of other things, then it should be a witness to you that you really do not see that God demands all of our focus.

[Deu 6:5 ESV] You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your might.

Of course, but He very clearly spoke and wrote.

Exodus 20:8 Remember the Sabbath day by keeping it holy

He said our work can be completed in six days, but the seventh is His holy day.

 

[Nathan@work]

Of course, but He very clearly spoke and wrote.

Exodus 20:8 Remember the Sabbath day by keeping it holy

He said our work can be completed in six days, but the seventh is His holy day.

Our work is never completed in 6 days. The seventh comes, and then it starts all over again.

His work was completed - He rested on the 7th - He did not create anymore - He was finished.

Jesus came - lived a perfect life - died on a cross - His work was finished.

The Sabbath command is kept holy only when you rest as He did. Rest in the law will always break the commandment.

Jesus is the believer's Sabbath.

Saturday is the unbeliever's Sabbath.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Our work is never completed in 6 days. The seventh comes, and then it starts all over again.

His work was completed - He rested on the 7th - He did not create anymore - He was finished.

Jesus came - lived a perfect life - died on a cross - His work was finished.

The Sabbath command is kept holy only when you rest as He did. Rest in the law will always break the commandment.

Jesus is the believer's Sabbath.

Saturday is the unbeliever's Sabbath.

That not what God said, but we all have free will to believe as we wish.