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Removing the laws of God- what does it really mean?

BobRyan

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Good question -

In 1Cor 7:19 "what matters is keeping the Commandments of God" comes right after saying "circumcision does not matter".

In Heb 10:4-11 - all animal sacrifice and offering laws end at the cross.

In Eph 6:1-2 one of the Laws that remain includes the one where the 5th commandment "is the first commandment with a promise" in that unique unit of "TEN".

And this is not just the view of Bible Sabbath keeping scholarship - it is also the view of the Bible scholarship in most Sunday keeping groups, rather than an obscure Bible detail nobody found except for those that keep the Bible Sabbath.
 
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Leaf473

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Well, unfortunately, sometimes our Christian brothers and sisters who believe themselves to be under the law do indeed want to spy out the freedom of those who are not.
 
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Nathan@work

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Here is where I think you may miss the whole point. Jesus is the Word of God.

Many put their trust in the Bible which is literally just words printed on paper. Jesus, came in the flesh, and it is Him who points to God. While the Bible contains the words that He spoke when He was on the earth in His flesh - now He speaks to us through His Spirit.

This is why so many people have the single Bible as their proof text, yet can disagree on so many things. Why? Because the Bible does not speak to us - it is not living - only the Spirit of God can speak to us.

When you interpret what the Commandments mean yourself, even if you think you are good intentioned, and then teach others what you think they mean, then you are teaching others to break them by doing so.

God has not called His people to teach others the law. He has called us to teach others about the Faith.

True repentance, which can only happen with true Faith, is turning away from yourself and your thoughts of what is good and evil. This is the root of sin.

The person who has the Spirit, who is led by the Spirit, will do His commandments.

Doing them, the way you think they should be done, void of the Spirit, will not give you right to the tree of life.

To use an example you may understand, you can "keep" all 10 commandments - and still not be perfect.

[Mat 19:16-22 ESV] And behold, a man came up to him, saying, "Teacher, what good deed must I do to have eternal life?" And he said to him, "Why do you ask me about what is good? There is only one who is good. If you would enter life, keep the commandments." He said to him, "Which ones?" And Jesus said, "You shall not murder, You shall not commit adultery, You shall not steal, You shall not bear false witness, Honor your father and mother, and, You shall love your neighbor as yourself." The young man said to him, "All these I have kept. What do I still lack?" Jesus said to him, "If you would be perfect, go, sell what you possess and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow me." When the young man heard this he went away sorrowful, for he had great possessions.

God demands perfection. Just when you think you have done all there is to be perfect, He will show you yet one more thing. He does this so we will know that our dependence is on Him and Him alone - that only He is perfect.

[Mat 19:23-26 ESV] And Jesus said to his disciples, "Truly, I say to you, only with difficulty will a rich person enter the kingdom of heaven. Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich person to enter the kingdom of God." When the disciples heard this, they were greatly astonished, saying, "Who then can be saved?" But Jesus looked at them and said, "With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible."

It is only God who saves us, not because of our works, but because of Him working in and thru us. Don't miss that - it is not our works, it is His works. We are simply branches that bear His fruit.
 
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SabbathBlessings

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Well, unfortunately, sometimes our Christian brothers and sisters who believe themselves to be under the law do indeed want to spy out the freedom of those who are not.
Not at all, just pointing out important scripture and sharing God's Words. Which we are all free to accept or not. Yes, we do have freedom to obey God's laws and we also have the freedom not to. It's a choice we all have to make and live with.
 
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Nathan@work

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Not at all, just pointing out important scripture and sharing God's Words. Which we are all free to accept or not. Yes, we do have freedom to obey God's laws and we also have the freedom not to. It's a choice we all have to make and live with.

Actually, those void of the Spirit cannot obey God's laws. It is impossible. They are slaves to sin. They are held captive by the law in order that He can show them the way of righteousness - Faith.
 
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SabbathBlessings

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Maybe I am not the one missing the point.... The verses I quoted is from our Savior, so if you reject them you are not rejecting my words, my words mean nothing.

I think we have all have said as much as we can on the subject. You can believe as you wish and that's okay. We are known by what we DO and its our CHOICE, not something Gods gives us as that would eliminate our free will.

We can agree to disagree.
 
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Leaf473

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Hi BobRyan, good to see you again!

We were just recently talking in this thread about when Jesus is saying on The sermon on the Mount how he didn't come to destroy the law, and that no part of the law will pass from the law (or the prophets).

What's the right way to talk about the animal sacrifice and offering laws, in your view?

Do we say they are destroyed? No longer needed or required? That it's okay to break them?
That they have passed from the law?

I've read one school of thought that says once people define the terms, most disagreements go away.

So maybe it's a good time to talk about how to talk about these things, so we can be using the same sets of words?
 
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Leaf473

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Not at all, just pointing out important scripture and sharing God's Words. Which we are all free to accept or not. Yes, we do have freedom to obey God's laws and we also have the freedom not to. It's a choice we all have to make and live with.
Very true!

I think the discussion then becomes, which laws?

As I was just asking BobRyan, what's the right way to talk about the laws that we no longer keep, such as animal sacrifice?
 
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fhansen

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The law is good, and comes from the heart of God-we're the problem. And we cease being the problem to the extent that we love God with our whole heart, soul, mind, and strength and our neighbor as ourselves. And then the law is fulfilled as obedience flows, willingly and of its own accord, from that love. And this relationship begins, necessarily, with faith.

The New Covenant does not excuse man from the obligation to be righteous, but rather finally provides him with the authentic means to achieve it, in partnership with God, which is to be "under grace" as opposed to "under the law", which means to attempt to be righteous by myself, as if that were even possible. "Apart from Me you can do nothing." John 15:5
 
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Nathan@work

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Actually, I can never agree to disagree. I never understood how people can say that. That is not right. It is actually a selfish statement at its core.

You quoted verses that are printed in the Bible. The same Bible that people use to mean whatever they want it to mean. What does the Spirit say?

I am known by Who's I am, not what I do. I do what I do because of Who's I am.

It is not me that works, but Him working in me to do His good pleasure. My will is to do His will. I know His will is perfect, and mine is not.
 
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SabbathBlessings

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True, apart from God we can do nothing, and everything is possible with God, including keeping the commandments. We are saved by grace (God's gift to give or not) by our faith, but its not a license to sin and we obey God's commandments not to be saved, but because of our new heart and want to obey out of love. 1 John 5:3
 
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SabbathBlessings

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I think we are arguing to argue and its no longer fruitful. Wish you well and God bless.
 
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fhansen

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Yes, and that obedience remains an obligation for creation-for us- even as God patiently and lovingly works to accomplish it in us.
 
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SabbathBlessings

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Very true!

I think the discussion then becomes, which laws?

As I was just asking BobRyan, what's the right way to talk about the laws that we no longer keep, such as animal sacrifice?
The ceremonial laws ended with Christ as our sacrifice. These include the yearly Sabbath(s) festivals (not weekly seventh day Sabbath in the 4th commandment) blood sacrifices and other ceremonial laws given through Moses. Not God's moral laws that we are told are eternal.
 
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Leaf473

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The proper way to talk about these laws then is to say that they are ended?
 
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LoveGodsWord

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Hope you do not mind me bumping in Leaf. The answer is as Jesus says. He has not come to destroy any of Gods laws but to fulfill them. Jesus obeyed all of God's 10 commandments including the Sabbath so in this sense fulfilled them becoming God's perfect sacrificial sin offering for the sins of the world who was sinless and knew no sin (1 Peter 2:22), without spot or blemish. As to the ceremonial sacrificial laws, and other similar laws written in the book of the covenant (Exodus 24:7), these were all "shadow laws" that were prophetic pointing to the body of Christ (Colossians 2:17) meaning they were pointing to the coming Messiah and Jesus as Gods' sacrifice for the sins of the world (John 1:29; 36) so now these "shadow laws" laws for remission of sins under the new covenant are fulfilled and continued in Christ based on better promises (Hebrews 8:1-6) under the new covenant.

Hope this is helpful
 
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fhansen

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And the New Testament states that the moral laws are still in effect, most notably by Jesus and Paul, perhaps. And the ancient churches in the east and west, incidentally, continued to affirm this, with the ten commandments viewed as obligatory for man-and fulfillable now to the extent that we live by the Sprit, remaining in and true to God.
 
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Nathan@work

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The question really is why do some choose certain laws to be only sacrificial/ceremonial, and then others to be not? Who decides which are which?

Why are the 'non' sacrificial/ceremonial laws not continued in Christ?
 
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LoveGodsWord

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The question really is why do some choose certain laws to be only sacrificial/ceremonial, and then others to be not? Who decides which are which?
Why are the 'non' sacrificial/ceremonial laws not continued in Christ?

Hello Nathan, sorry but I do not understand your question did you want to explain it a little better? Do you know the difference between ceremonial and moral?
Why are the 'non' sacrificial/ceremonial laws not continued in Christ?
The answer to your question is in the post you are quoting from as posted earlier. Perhaps you missed it... The ceremonial sacrificial laws, and other similar laws written in the book of the covenant (Exodus 24:7), were all "shadow laws" that were prophetic pointing to the body of Christ (Colossians 2:17) meaning they were pointing to the coming Messiah and Jesus as Gods' sacrifice for the sins of the world (John 1:29; 36) so now these "shadow laws" laws for remission of sins under the new covenant are fulfilled and continued in Christ based on better promises (Hebrews 8:1-6) under the new covenant.

Hope this is helpful
 
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