Removing the laws of God- what does it really mean?

[SabbathBlessings]

The Mosaic covenant is obsolete (Heb 8:13), the ceremonial laws are abolished (Eph 2:14-16), and the curse of the Law is removed (Col 2:14).
The Decalogue remains and is subsumed into Jesus' two commands (Mt 22:37-40), they being written on our hearts (Heb 8:10).

That is the New Covenant testimony from the New Covenant Holy Scriptures.

Will respond soon, when I’m not on my ipad, I mess up all my quotes on this thing. Until then God bless.

 

[Clare73]

The first covenant of God’s moral’s laws that is written in our hearts in the second covenant is found in Exodus 20. It’s morally wrong to worship other gods, vain His name, covet, steal murder etc. That’s why each of God’s 10 commandments are eternal. Psalm 111:7-8—“The works of His hands are verity and judgement; all His commandments are sure. They stand fast for ever and ever, and are done in truth and uprightness.”

God bless

The Mosaic Covenant is in Ex 19:3-8, whose conditions are the Ten Commandments of Ex 20:2-17.

 

[Clare73]

The first covenant of God’s moral’s laws that is written in our hearts in the second covenant is found in Exodus 20. It’s morally wrong to worship other gods, vain His name, covet, steal murder etc. That’s why each of God’s 10 commandments are eternal. Psalm 111:7-8—“The works of His hands are verity and judgement; all His commandments are sure. They stand fast for ever and ever, and are done in truth and uprightness.”

God bless

We are in agreement on the Ten Commandments still being operative, written on our hearts and subsumed in Jesus' two commands of Mt 22:37-40; Romans 13:8-10.

The Sabbath commandment is eternal in the Sabbath-rest of salvation in Jesus Christ.

 

[Chi.C]

bye

 

[SabbathBlessings]

I have heard this before. Quite often really. However, I do not know where it comes from. Is it just a phrase that got started a long time ago and has carried over?

Do you believe there is a difference between something God asks us to do, and something God commands us to do?

When it comes to something He is asking, He would not ask if its something we couldn't do. I think Job is a good example of this. More of an extreme because God withdrew His Spirit, but knew Job would not turn against Him despite the devil taking away everything. Job obeyed and God blessed him for his obedience. Jesus promises if we obey He will provide us a Helper. The Spirit of Truth.

Your last question is a good question, I think it's always in our best interest if God asks us to do something to do it. Honestly, what I think a lot of people misunderstand is God wants to bless each of us. He wants us happy. It might be a different kind of happy than what some people define, but its a better happiness. Sometimes you have to give up what seems like everything to get exactly what will make you fulfilled. We have a God of love, He will test us, but obedience comes with a lot of promises and blessings.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

We are in agreement on the Ten Commandments still being operative, written on our hearts and subsumed in Jesus' two commands of Mt 22:37-40; Romans 13:8-10.

The Sabbath commandment is eternal in the Sabbath-rest of salvation in Jesus Christ.

I'm not sure if we are in agreement. God has 10 moral commdmants which includes the 4th commandment.

I think you are misunderstanding the Sabbath commandment and are buying into another argument that people use to justify not obeying God's 4th commandment.

The 4th commandment is how we devote our time to God. It's not something He gives us, it is a commandment meaning it's something we need to do. There are clear examples of this throughout the Bible. (Gather 2x more food on Friday to prepare for Sabbath) You are confusing the rest that God gives us only if we obey.

Exodus 20:8 “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. 11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.

That is our commandment, to keep it Holy. We are not to work (rest from work) It's the day God Blessed and we are to Hallow His Sabbath Ezekiel 20:20
Sabbath is a day of worship Leviticus 23:3, Isaiah 66:23

We do not receive God's rest by breaking His commandments. We enter into His Spiritual rest only when we obey, not disobey. Hebrews 4:1-5(the gospel rest) - Hebrews 4:3. This is what Hebrews 3 and Hebrews 4 is warning about.

God bless

 

[HIM]

Thanks for your work, there.
But the exegesis of Heb 4:1-11 in not in the context of the whole book of Hebrews.

The issue of the book of Hebrews is apostasy--falling away, departing the Christian faith, failing to enter God's salvation rest in Jesus Christ, the issue is not the Saturday Sabbath.

And to the issue of falling away, the writer brings the example of failure to enter Canaan (Heb 3:16-19, 4:2-3, 6, 11), the land of promised rest (Dt 12:9-10, 25:19; Joshua 1:13, 11:23, 21:44, 22:4, 23:1). Because they refused to enter, God closed the doors of Canaan in the face of a whole generation of Israelites (Nu 14:21-35). These NT Hebrews were facing a similar danger in their consideration of returning to their OT religion (Heb 4:2, 6, 11, 14, 6:4-8).

Hebrews reveals that the promise of entering God's rest still stands, but not in Canaan-rest, that door has been closed (Hebrews 4:3). It remains only in the spiritual Sabbath-rest of salvation in Jesus Christ, entered into only by faith in the person and work of Jesus Christ, not by one's own work. Salvation-rest in Jesus Christ is spiritual rest from our own work to save, and rest in Christ's saving work which saved us. It is into God's own Sabbath-rest that we are called (Hebrews 4:7-9) to enter (Hebrews 4:10-11) in Jesus Christ.

NT Sabbath-rest is rest in the salvation work of Jesus Christ, which these NT Hebrews were in danger of failing to enter, as at Canaan, by returning to their OT religion.

And not only would they not be entering God's Sabbath-rest in Jesus Christ, they would also be forfeiting the only sacrifice there is for their sin, rendering their hearts hardened and unable to repent, while crucifying the Son of God all over again (as the Jews did at Calvary--Acts 7:51-52) subjecting him to public disgrace (Hebrews 6:6).

I’m just posting something so I don’t forget to respond to this later. Everybody have a blessed day

 

[Nathan@work]

When it comes to something He is asking, He would not ask if its something we couldn't do. I think Job is a good example of this. More of an extreme because God withdrew His Spirit, but knew Job would not turn against Him despite the devil taking away everything. Job obeyed and God blessed him for his obedience. Jesus promises if we obey He will provide us a Helper. The Spirit of Truth.

Your last question is a good question, I think it's always in our best interest if God asks us to do something to do it. Honestly, what I think a lot of people misunderstand is God wants to bless each of us. He wants us happy. It might be a different kind of happy than what some people define, but its a better happiness. Sometimes you have to give up what seems like everything to get exactly what will make you fulfilled. We have a God of love, He will test us, but obedience comes with a lot of promises and blessings.

Ok, but you did not answer my question.

I would say the commandments of God are not Him asking us to do something. Would you agree or disagree?

If we are capable of doing everything He commands, then we can not sin. Sin is not doing His commands. Do you believe we can do everything He commands?

 

[Leaf473]

Out of curiosity, do you spend as much time justifying scripture about Sunday (first day) worship as you try to discredit God's 4th commandment? You don't have to answer me, but its something you might want to consider.

I don't really see it as trying to justify Sunday worship, I think everyday is the day to worship God.

Like Jesus told the Samaritan woman, the days were coming when it wouldn't be a question of worship God on this mountain or in Jerusalem, although Jerusalem is the commanded place to worship.

So also, I don't think it is really about this day or that day to worship God.

I don't try to discredit the Sabbath, I try to establish it, bring it to its fullest expression!

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Ok, but you did not answer my question.

I would say the commandments of God are not Him asking us to do something. Would you agree or disagree?

If we are capable of doing everything He commands, then we can not sin. Sin is not doing His commands. Do you believe we can do everything He commands?

The commandments are commandments, but He gives us free will.

I do believe we can do everything He commands on the condition we are willing to do His will and with the Holy Spirit. We will all sin, but the difference is the ones who really want to obey will turn away from their sins and allow God’s Spirit to help them to overcome their sins (cleansing the sanctuary). When we stumble we pray for forgiveness and get back up. We are told there are those who keeps His commandments, so I believe Him. Revelations 12:17, Revelations 22:14.

 

[Nathan@work]

I was thinking about this question early this morning. I am not sure if it ever got asked, or if it ever got answered, but there is so much to dig through I thought I would put it out.

Are the 10 commandments eternal? As in, having no beginning and no end?

 

[Nathan@work]

The commandments are commandments, but He gives us free will.

I do believe we can do everything He commands on the condition we are willing to do His will and with the Holy Spirit. We will all sin, but the difference is the ones who really want to obey will turn away from their sins and allow God’s Spirit to help them to overcome their sins (cleansing the sanctuary). When we stumble we pray for forgiveness and get back up. We are told there are those who keeps His commandments, so I believe Him. Revelations 12:17, Revelations 22:14.

Ok. So He commands that we keep His commands perfectly right?

Do you believe that free will allows us to determine how He wants us to keep His commandments?

 

[SabbathBlessings]

I don't really see it as trying to justify Sunday worship, I think everyday is the day to worship God.

Like Jesus told the Samaritan woman, the days were coming when it wouldn't be a question of worship God on this mountain or in Jerusalem, although Jerusalem is the commanded place to worship.

So also, I don't think it is really about this day or that day to worship God.

I don't try to discredit the Sabbath, I try to establish it, bring it to its fullest expression!

God’s Word disagrees with your statement which is why God specifically made Holy, Sanctified and only Blessed the seventh day. It does not say a Holy day. You can worship God every day, but we are still required to keep the 4th commandment. God tells us to work on days 1-6. We give thanks to Him daily for all His blessing, but He wrote and spoke these Words:

Exodus 20:8 “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. 11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Ok. So He commands that we keep His commands perfectly right?

Do you believe that free will allows us to determine how He wants us to keep His commandments?

No, free will gives us the ability to obey or disobey. Like Eve did when she ate the apple. Which was the beginning of sin on earth.

 

[Leaf473]

That is about the Sabbath-rest being fulfilled eternally in Jesus Christ, in whom we rest from our work to save, and rest in his work which saves,
which makes all of time, not just the seventh day of the week, a Sabbath-rest for those in Christ.

Are we thinking of the same passage in Romans?

To me it looks very much about days and foods. The idea I think Paul is getting at is that if you are a person who is free regarding days and foods, don't use that freedom in a way that hurts your Christian siblings.

 

[Nathan@work]

No, free will gives us the ability to obey or disobey. Like Eve did when she ate the apple. Which was the beginning of sin on earth.

Right, Eve thought of God's command as Him asking, not telling. Her desire was to eat and her inability to reason was manifested.

Or as Paul said, she was deceived. But we know that Adam was not deceived.

Being deceived, she was not actually aware that she was going against God's command. Paul says she 'fell' into it.

What we learn from this is that we can transgress God's law unintentionally.

 

[Nathan@work]

How many of God's laws do you think we unknowingly transgress? I bet it is a lot.

Jesus pointed out a few for us. Being mad at someone is the same as killing them. Looking at a woman with desire is the same as actually being with her. Do you think these are the only two like that?

What about the Sabbath? Do you think that one is unlike the rest, that it is simple to understand and there is no way to unknowingly break it? Do you think you obey the commandment exactly as God commands it - perfectly?

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Right, Eve thought of God's command as Him asking, not telling. Her desire was to eat and her inability to reason was manifested.

Or as Paul said, she was deceived. But we know that Adam was not deceived.

Being deceived, she was not actually aware that she was going against God's command. Paul says she 'fell' into it.

What we learn from this is that we can transgress God's law unintentionally.

Eve was deceived but she willingly sinned. God told her she could eat whatever she wanted except for one tree. Satan casted doubt in her mind that continues today around God's laws Genesis 3:4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:

Look how many arguments are around one law, God's Holy Sabbath that He asked us to REMEMBER.

We are judged based on our knowledge. If you know the truth and turn away from it its sin. We all are fortunate to have God's Word, the Holy Bible. We should all study it for ourselves and ask the Holy Spirit for Truth and Guidance so we are not deceived.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

I was thinking about this question early this morning. I am not sure if it ever got asked, or if it ever got answered, but there is so much to dig through I thought I would put it out.

Are the 10 commandments eternal? As in, having no beginning and no end?

Yes.
Psalms 111:7 The works of his hands are verity and judgment; all his commandments are sure. 8 They stand fast for ever and ever, and are done in truth and uprightness.

 

[Leaf473]

That is a very interesting verse. At first glance, the profaning of the sabbath appeared to be a practical compromise as the temple had to be maintained and the Levite Priests were the ones maintaining it. But there seems to be more dimensions to it.

Interesting Levite history
The Levites Priests are traditionally the first born of the families of Levi tribe (the paper I read actually added more details like being Egyptian priests). The story begins at the Golden Calf fiasco, there was the cracking of the Covenant in stone and the edict from Moses that all who participated in the worship the golden calf will be destroyed. Everyone - man, women, child, old and young. The ones that rose to the call were the Levites. So they slaughtered everyone that had sinned - including wife, mother, father, sibling and progeny. Under the high priest Aaron , temple was built and the Levite Priesthood formed the cultic ranks (the rituals and sacrifices). The tablets of the Covenant was placed in the Ark (Holy of Holies) in the middle of the temple. This is interesting to me as logic seems to say they are not profaning the Sabbath. Axioms.
Pt1) The 4th Commandment "Observe the Sabbath at keep it Holy" is part of the Law
Pt2) The Law (in tablet form in the Ark) is maintained in the temple.
Pt3) The priests maintains the temple and keeps it sacred (or holy in other words).
Combine Pt2 with Pt3 - The priests maintains the Law and keeps it Holy.
Combine Pt1 and above - The priests maintains the Sabbath and keeps it Holy.

The working priests are in fact keeping the Sabbath Holy! Another interesting aspect is the conclusion of profaning comes from the subsequent books not the Covenant (I have to verify this).

Thanks. It seems to have many aspects that needs to be explored. No wonder the bible is a best seller!

Interesting ideas, there!

As I see it, the priests were commanded by God to offer daily sacrifices. Slaughtering an animal is work. So, the priests were commanded by God to work on the Sabbath.

What do you think about circumcision, which must be done eight days after birth? It sounds like this is to be done, even if it falls on the Sabbath.

Why not circumcise seven days after or nine days after? The child would be just as circumcised, and the Sabbath wouldn't be profaned.