Removing the laws of God- what does it really mean?

[SkyWriting]

It is a new covenant, God said He would write His laws in our hearts and in our minds. WHAT LAWS? Does it say “I’ll give them a new covenant, and I'm making a new law”?

Yes. The promise and covenant of Grace. All new.

What Does the Bible Say About Neighbors?
What Does the Bible Say About New Covenant?

Hebrews 8:13
In speaking of a new covenant, he makes the first one obsolete. And what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.

 

[Clare73]

Scripture (the Word) was already in (the mind/heart of) God from the very beginning, correct...?

And Love was also, and both is and was and has always been, the "command", from that time, right...?

Predates the OT law covenant, right...?

Yes or No...?

God Bless!

I know only what is in the God-breathed Scriptures, and where they make an end to teaching, I make an end to learning (1Co 4:6).

Open-ended questioning is confusing. I cannot give informed answers if I don't know what the goal is, because it all depends on the parameters of the goal. I don't know if we're building a barn or a piano here.

 

[Neogaia777]

It is a new covenant, God said He would write His laws in our hearts and in our minds. WHAT LAWS? Does it say “I’ll give them a new covenant, and I'm making a new law”?

It says He will write His laws, Gods laws are only found in Exodus 20 and is the first covenant. So laws from the first covenant (God's 10) are transferred over to the New Covenant with better promises. It's still not okay lie, cheat steal, vain His name or break any of God's commandments. Which is made clear by numerous scripture in the New Testament. Read my OP for just a few.

The new covenant is not a different law. It is the same law written in a different place. The old covenant was salvation by faith because even in Old Testament times they all sinned. So God’s saying, “I'm going to make a covenant with you that you might be saved.” We are going to be saved based on forgiveness and faith. The terms of the covenant are the same. God wants us to be saved from sin. What is sin? Breaking God's law. God is not changing the covenant by saying, “I'm throwing out the law.”

Jesus kept all of His Fathers laws and asked us to do the same. John 15:10 If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father’s commandments and abide in His love.

God does not say "He is making a new law", you "added" that, etc, nor does He say He is just writing the letter of the OT law covenant on our hearts either, something else you "made up", etc, but why He says He is writing "the primary law" "in and on our hearts", etc, is because that is the only place it/they can truly be fully known, or accurately understood, etc...

God Bless!

 

[Chi.C]

bye

 

[Neogaia777]

I know only what is in the God-breathed Scriptures, and where they make an end to teaching, I make an end to learning (1Co 4:6).

Open-ended questioning is confusing. I cannot give informed answers if I don't know what the goal is, because it all depends on the parameters of the goal.

Well, you've ignored all the scriptures I've quoted for you, or told you where to find, etc, which kind of just tells me that you really just "do not want to know", etc, as there is scripture for all I am right now saying to you, etc, which just tells me that you just may not really know it all that well, etc, or you would know, etc...?

God Bless!

 

[Clare73]

Well, you've ignored all the scriptures I've quoted for you, or told you where to find, etc, which kind of just tells me that you really just "do not want to know", etc, as there is scripture for all I am right now saying to you, etc, which just tells me that you just may not really know it all that well, etc...?

God Bless!

Couldn't figure out if we were building a barn or a piano.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

]

The only two laws:

Matthew 22:36 “Teacher, which is the great commandment in the Law?” 37 And he said to him, “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. 38 This is the great and first commandment. 39 And a second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. 40 On these two commandments depend all the Law and the Prophets.”

Jeremiah 31:31-34
“Behold, the days are coming, declares the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah, not like the covenant that I made with their fathers on the day when I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, my covenant that they broke, though I was their husband, declares the Lord. But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, declares the Lord:

I will put my law within them, and I will write it on their hearts.
(not in any book)

And I will be their God, and they shall be my people. And no longer shall each one teach his neighbor and each his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for they shall all know me, from the least of them to the greatest, declares the Lord. For I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.”


Hebrews 8:13
In speaking of a new covenant, he makes the first one obsolete. And what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.

First of all, God wrote the second covenant before Jesus stated the greatest commandments. So there are laws established well before Jesus came, so obviously more laws than just two.

The second covenant God said He would write His laws (which laws?) His laws, the 10 commandments found in Exodus 20 in our hearts and minds. Gods laws have not gone away, its still a sin to lie, steal, vain His name, murder etc. His laws have different meanings now in the second covenant with different promises.

Second, Jesus said He kept all of His Fathers commandments and told us to as well, if we want to abide in His love. John 15: 10 If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father’s commandments and abide in His love.

The greatest commandments are God's commandments summarized. The first four (first tablet) how we are to obey and love God. Last 6 (second tablet) how we are to love each other.

Jesus said Mathew 5:18 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.

You are welcome to believe as you wish, but I would want to be sure because there are a lot of promises in the Bible about those who obey and keep His commandments.

 

[SkyWriting]

]


First of all, God wrote the second covenant before Jesus stated the greatest commandments. So there are laws established well before Jesus came, so obviously more laws than just two.

The second covenant God said He would write His laws (which laws?) His laws, the 10 commandments found in Exodus 20 in our hearts and minds. Gods laws have not gone away, its still a sin to lie, steal, vain His name, murder etc. His laws have different meanings now in the second covenant with different promises.

Second, Jesus said He kept all of His Fathers commandments and told us to as well, if we want to abide in His love. John 15: 10 If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father’s commandments and abide in His love.

The greatest commandments are God's commandments summarized. The first four (first tablet) how we are to obey and love God. Last 6 second tablet, how we are to love each other.

Jesus said Mathew 5:18 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.

You are welcome to believe as you wish, but I would want to be sure because there are a lot of promises in the Bible about those who obey and keep His commandments.

40 On these two commandments depend all the Law and the Prophets.”

What Does the Bible Say About Doing Unto Others?

 

[Neogaia777]

There is a lot (of "warnings") about those trusting in their own "work", or set of various "works" that they do or make happen or cause to come about/accomplish, etc, in order to be saved as well, etc...

God Bless!

 

[SabbathBlessings]

God does not say "He is making a new law", you "added" that, etc, nor does He say He is just writing the letter of the OT law covenant on our hearts either, something else you "made up", etc, but why He says He is writing "the primary law" "in and on our hearts", etc, is because that is the only place it/they can truly be fully known, or accurately understood, etc...

God Bless!

He did not say that He had new laws, you're right which was my original point.

He said His laws, which are God's commandments. The first covenant is God's 10 commandments. The second covenant, which is a follow up to His first covenant are His laws. That's how it works. When you have agreement 1 and you need to make an addendum you use the same part of agreement 1 that still applies but add the new part to agreement 2. God said He is using His laws (covenant 1) but writing them in our hearts and mind (covenant 2). If there were different laws He would of at that point added those laws. Since there was no additions to His laws, the previous laws are carried over from the first covenant.

 

[Neogaia777]

Couldn't figure out if we were building a barn or a piano.

What???

God Bless!

 

[Nathan@work]

It's more like a prayer book to me in the sense that I read it to know God. Just about everything about him is new.

So when you read, and pray, there is often ‘new’ things.

But, what is written down in those pages never changes right? Same words, same commandments, same stories. Right?

I suppose someone could read a different translation each time. That would make changes. . (I kid)

 

[SabbathBlessings]

40 On these two commandments depend all the Law and the Prophets.”

What Does the Bible Say About Doing Unto Others?

Do you know what the Law and the Prophets mean?

 

[Neogaia777]

He did not say that he had new laws, you're right which was my original point.

He said His laws, which are God's commandments. The first covenant is God's 10 commandments. The second covenant, which is a follow up to His first covenant are His laws. That's how it works. When you have agreement 1 and you need to make an addendum you use the same part of agreement 1 that still applies but add the new part to agreement 2. God said He is using His laws (covenant 1) but writing them in our hearts and mind (covenant 2).

The law that both is and are, and have always existed from the beginning, and predates the OT letter of the law covenant, etc, can only be truly and fully understood/comprehended/accurately and fully known, etc, only in each individual human heart, and only by the Spirit operating actively inside that human heart only, and no other way, etc... For there are always "exceptions" to every written down rule of law always, etc...

And He desires mercy above and beyond sacrifice, etc...

Anyway, I got to go for now, but I'll check back later...

God Bless!

 

[BobRyan]

Clare73 said: ↑
Hebrews is addressed to NT Hebrews who, because of persecution by the Jews and disinheritance by their families,
were considering a return to Judaism. It contains five spiritual warnings about the drastic spiritual consequences

The entire discussion of Christ's High Priestly ministry in Heb 4,7,8,9,10 and the heavy amount of OT quotes where in Heb 3 when the OT is quoted the text says "The Holy Spirit says" is anything BUT a document rejecting the OT text.

In Heb 11 ALL of the giants of faith held up as examples for the NT saints - are from the OT.

This is not a text about deleting the Bible... it is about the fact that Christ is the center of both OT and NT texts.

Heb 4:1-2 "The Gospel was preached to us JUST AS IT WAS to THEM also"

Heb 4:1-13, the subject of my posts, is not about Christ, the High Priest, as are not my posts,

How unfortunate then that this is the topic of Hebrews 4, 7,8,9,10 and yet you quote Heb 4 without having any interest in it - while addressing the entire book of Hebrews in the quote at the top of this post.

to wit:
Hebrews is addressed to NT Hebrews who, because of persecution by the Jews and disinheritance by their families,
were considering a return to Judaism. It contains five spiritual warnings about the drastic spiritual consequences

Looks like you are talking about the entire book of Hebrews -- hence my response above.

Hint there is no "return to Judaism" text in all of Hebrew.

As for Jewish Christians - Acts 21 makes it clear as to what they were being told --

Acts 21: . 20 And when they heard about them, they began glorifying God; and they said to him, “You see, brother, how many thousands there are among the Jews of those who have believed, and they are all zealous for the Law; 21 and they have been told about you, that you are teaching all the Jews who are among the Gentiles to abandon Moses, telling them not to circumcise their children nor to walk according to the customs. 22 So what is to be done? They will certainly hear that you have come. 23 Therefore, do as we tell you: we have four men who have a vow upon themselves; 24 take them along and purify yourself together with them, and pay their expenses so that they may shave their heads; and then everyone will know that there is nothing to what they have been told about you, but that you yourself also conform, keeping the Law.

No such debate of that form appears at all in the entire book of Hebrews. In reality. But we can see it in Acts 21 for those who want to see the primary text on that topic.

of such a decision, of which the third, Heb 6:4-6, is the most dreadful,

Hebrews 6 does not say one single thing about the supposed danger of being a Jew or of believing the OT is still scripture even for Christians.

Heb 6 says - about Gospel "basics"
Therefore leaving the elementary teaching about the Christ, let us press on to maturity, not laying again a foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God, 2 of instruction about washings and laying on of hands, and about the resurrection of the dead and eternal judgment. 3 And this we will do, if God permits.

It is not contrasting Christianity with Judaism or OT with NT - it is talking about accepting Gospel basics and continuing on from that foundation of Christ as the Messiah and topics of repentance.

It talks of going to more advanced topics - which are then presented in Heb 7,8,9,10

Heb 5 ends with the reprimand for being stuck at the basic Christian doctrine level.

11 Concerning him we have much to say, and it is difficult to explain, since you have become poor listeners. 12 For though by this time you ought to be teachers, you have need again for someone to teach you the elementary principles of the actual words of God, and you have come to need milk and not solid food. 13 For everyone who partakes only of milk is unacquainted with the word of righteousness, for he is an infant. 14 But solid food is for the mature, who because of practice have their senses trained to distinguish between good and evil.

So then in Heb 6 - since we are addressing those who get stuck on the "Gospel basics" and not moving on to more mature topics - Paul says this -

4 For it is impossible, in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit, 5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come,

So that is the starting point - Gospel basics fully accepting the written word of God.

But being stuck there is to be in danger of falling away rather than pressing on to love more truth.

6 and then have fallen away, to restore them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God and put Him to open shame. 7 For ground that drinks the rain which often falls on it and produces vegetation useful to those for whose sake it is also tilled, receives a blessing from God; 8 but if it yields thorns and thistles, it is worthless and close to being cursed, and it ends up being burned.

The text says nothing about "falling away" being defined as believing the written word of God. IN fact in Heb 3 Paul quotes the OT text as "The Holy Spirit says" -- it is upheld not down graded.

Heb 4 the Sabbath rest of David's day "remains"... for the people of God
Heb 10:4-11 the animal sacrifices laws "taken away"

In Heb 4 only "some" in David's day and "some" in Moses' day did not enter. -- But others did enter so we have the Heb 11 "giants of faith" in the OT held up as examples for the Hebrews in the NT ... in fact as examples for all Christians in the NT.

 

[BobRyan]

Yes, I agree that there are details that they didn't know about. I think some of those details would be how we go about fulfilling the commandments.
Peace!

I don't think that missing the very basics about obeying the Word of God - is what gets Moses and Elijah standing with Christ in glory - before the cross happened - in Matt 17. Heb 3 says Moses did obey the Word of God - you are saying he did not know enough to do it.

Heb 3:1 Therefore, holy brothers and sisters, partakers of a heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our confession: Jesus; 2 He was faithful to Him who appointed Him, as Moses also was in all His house. 3 For He has been counted worthy of more glory than Moses, by just so much as the builder of the house has more honor than the house. 4 For every house is built by someone, but the builder of all things is God. 5 Now Moses was faithful in all God’s house as a servant, for a testimony of those things which were to be spoken later;

So much so - that Moses stands with Christ sinless and in glory in Matt 17 - before the cross even happens.

 

[Chi.C]

bye

 

[SkyWriting]

Do you know what the Law and the Prophets mean?

Yes. It's very well documented and easy to research. Just use "quotes" to get every exact match for the phrase. If you know the difference between "exact match" and general matching results.
About 3,330,000 results (exact match)

See also:
Luke 24:44
Then he said to them, “These are my words that I spoke to you while I was still with you, that everything written about me in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms must be fulfilled.”

 

[SkyWriting]

With the growing number of churches that are teaching God’s laws are a thing of the past citing arguments like “we are not under the law we are under grace” or “Gods laws are only for the Jews ”

Why would they say such things?

Galatians 2:21
I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness were through the law,
then Christ died for no purpose.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Why would they say such things?

Galatians 2:21
I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness were through the law,
then Christ died for no purpose.

If there was no law we would not need grace. We do not obey to be saved, we obey because we are saved.