Removing the laws of God- what does it really mean?

imge said:

So you don't think the 10 commandments apply today? So it's okay to worship other gods, covet, lie, murder, and so forth.....? What about God telling us He changes not, so did He mean to say He really changes?

There are two scriptures I think you should consider when one is trying to alter the Word of God.

Proverbs 30:5 Every word of God is pure; He is a shield to those who put their trust in Him. 6 Do not add to His words, Lest He rebuke you, and you be found a liar.

Psalms 111
7:The works of His hands are verity and justice;
All His precepts are sure.
8 They stand fast forever and ever,
And are done in truth and uprightness.
9 He has sent redemption to His people;
He has commanded His covenant forever:
Holy and awesome is His name.

This means Gods laws can not be changed. There are no contradictions in the Bible, just grave misunderstandings.

God did not tell us every day is Holy. God specifically wrote and spoke these words:

Exodus 20:8 “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. 11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.

God said His Sabbath is a perpetual covenant, meaning it can not be changed. Jesus kept the Sabbath (read the NT) and clearly said He did not come to do His will but the will of His Father and that He kept all of His fathers commandments and asked us to do the same. John 15:10

God said He changes not, which is why we will worship Him in Heaven on the seventh day Sabbath Isaiah 66:23 like He asked us to do now as a sign that we are His people Ezekiel 20:20.

It seems like some people spend more of their time trying to discredit clear, precise scripture, than they are trying to find the Biblical scripture to support why they worship on the day that most worship.

God bless

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I agree that God doesn't change, and that his written word is permanent and fixed.

But what He commands us to do does change. Or if you prefer, how we fulfill his commandments changes.

Got originally told humans to eat only plants. After the flood, that is changed to include animals.

I think that God does tell us that every day is holy, in that he tells us that we are holy. Whatever we do in word or in deed, we do in the name of the Lord, to his glory. Is there any activity that you do what you do not do to his glory, that you do not give thanks for?

SkyWriting said:

All sin is forgiven before the act. Believers cannot be judged.
What Does the Bible Say About Not Being Judged?

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Forgiveness occurs in response to confession 1 John 1:9 ... nobody has yet confessed a future sin.

2 Cor 5:10 "We must ALL stand before the judgment seat of Christ" -- but just for good deeds not for sins ... right?

wrong: 2 Cor 5: "10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may receive compensation for his deeds done through the body, in accordance with what he has done, whether good or bad."

What is the "compensation for bad deeds"?
Rom 6:23 "the wages of sin is death"

God judges all mankind
Rom 2:13-16
13 for it is not the hearers of the Law who are righteous before God, but the doers of the Law who will be justified. 14 For when Gentiles who do not have the Law instinctively perform the requirements of the Law, these, though not having the Law, are a law to themselves, 15 in that they show the work of the Law written in their hearts, their conscience testifying and their thoughts alternately accusing or else defending them, 16 on the day when, according to my gospel, God will judge the secrets of mankind through Christ Jesus.

GraceBro said:

God's law is for unbelievers, not Christians
"We know that the law is good if one uses it properly. We also know that the law is made not for the righteous but for lawbreakers and rebels, the ungodly and sinful, the unholy and irreligious, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers, for the sexually immoral, for those practicing homosexuality, for slave traders and liars and perjurers—and for whatever else is contrary to the sound doctrine .." 1 Timothy 1:8-10

Christians are not under God's law
"So the law was our guardian until Christ came that we might be justified by faith. Now that this faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian." Galatians 3:24-25

Jesus Christ is the end of the law
"For Christ is the end of the Law for righteousness to everyone who believes." Romans 10:4

The law is a curse for those under it
"For all who are of works of the Law are under a curse; for it is written: “Cursed is everyone who does not abide by all the things written in the book of the Law, to do them.” - Galatians 3:13

The Law cannot justify us
"...knowing that a person is not justified by works of the Law but through faith in Christ Jesus, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, so that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by works of the Law; since by works of the Law no flesh will be justified." Galatians 2:16

The Law cannot make us righteous
"I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness comes through the Law, then Christ died needlessly.” Galatians 2:21

The Law cannot give us life
"... and this commandment, which was to result in life, proved to result in death for me ..." Romans 7:10

The Law stirs up sin
"The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law." 1 Corinthians 15:56

The Law is based on Man's self-effort
"What shall we say then? That Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, attained righteousness, but the righteousness that is by faith; however, Israel, pursuing a law of righteousness, did not arrive at that law. Why? Because they did not pursue it by faith, but as though they could by works. They stumbled over the stumbling stone ..." Romans 9:30-32

The Law is a ministry of condemnation and death
"But if the ministry of death, engraved in letters on stones, came with glory so that the sons of Israel could not look intently at the face of Moses because of the glory of his face, fading as it was, how will the ministry of the Spirit fail to be even more with glory? For if the ministry of condemnation has glory, much more does the ministry of righteousness excel in glory." 2 Corinthians 3:7-9

The Law has been fulfilled in us
"For what the Law could not do, weak as it was through the flesh, God did: sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and as an offering for sin, He condemned sin in the flesh, so that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit." Romans 8:3-4

Under the Law sin is your master
"For sin shall not be your master, because you are not under law, but under grace." Romans 6:14

You cannot mix Law and Grace
"You foolish Galatians, who has bewitched you, before whose eyes Jesus Christ was publicly portrayed as crucified? This is the only thing I want to find out from you: did you receive the Spirit by works of the Law, or by hearing with faith? Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh?" Galatians 3:1-3

Once we come to Jesus Christ by faith, the law has done its work. We can now live in a trusting and dependent relationship on the indwelling Holy Spirit instead of trusting and depending on laws designed to manage our flesh.

Grace and Peace

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“But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully;” (1 Timothy 1:8).

Meaning, no person on the planet is under the whole of the Old Testament Law of Moses (the 613), because we have to use the Old Law in such a way that is lawfully accurate. In other words, certain laws out of the Old Law are still applicable and yet others are not applicable. For example: We see certain folks who have broken God's moral laws in 1 Timothy 1:9-10. Murderers, menstealers, whoremongers, and liars are the kind of people who are breaking God's moral laws. Moral laws is what the Gentiles were able to keep without having the Law in Romans 2:14. Yet, many other laws out of the Old Law are not applicable to the life of any person on the planet today. For example: Christ nailed to the cross those ordinances that were against us (Colossians 2:14). These ordinances (that were nailed to the cross and are no more) were things like sabbaths, holy days, and dietary laws; For we are not to let another person judge us on whether we keep the sabbaths, and holy days, or not (See: Colossians 2:16). The temple veil was also torn from top to bottom when Christ died upon the cross (Matthew 27:51) letting us know that the laws on the priesthood and the laws involving the animal sacrifices had ended. So the Old Law as a whole cannot be obeyed today by any person on the planet because it is not applicable anymore. It's not that a person cannot obey God's laws, it is that these laws (the 613 Laws of Moses) as a whole no longer exist as a package deal.

For when Paul talks about the law in a negative light, he is referring to the whole package deal of the Old Testament Law of Moses (the 613) and Paul is not talking about the New Testament commands that come from Jesus and His followers. So many today turn God's grace into a license for immorality (Jude 1:4). They think Paul was referring to all forms of Law, when this was not the case. God's grace teaches us to deny ungodliness and that we should live righteously and godly in this present world (Titus 2:11-12). We are forbidden in continuing in sin so that grace may abound (Romans 6:1-2). Meaning, grace will not abound if we continue in sin. For be not deceived, the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God (See: 1 Corinthians 6:9-10). In fact, Christ gave himself for us, so that He might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto Himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works (See: Titus 2:14). According to 2 Thessalonians 2:13-14: The gospel call is... God has chosen us to salvation through the sanctification of the Spirit, and a belief of the truth. So the gospel calls us to a life of holiness. But if we are not under any kind of laws salvation wise, then we can sin and still be saved and not worry about obeying God. But...

“...Let everyone naming the name of the Lord depart from iniquity." (2 Timothy 2:19).

Leaf473 said:

I think that God does tell us that every day is holy, in that he tells us that we are holy. Whatever we do in word or in deed, we do in the name of the Lord, to his glory.

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Moses and Elijah stand "With Christ" in Matt 17 before the cross - in glory.
Moses did not say to work on the Sabbath since "you are holy and anything you do is holy"
"The gospel was preached to us just as it was to them also" Heb 4:1-2
Gal 4 condemns the keeping of even one pagan day as holy.

Beanieboy said:

One more comment: The 10 Commandments mostly speak of what not to do. Loving your neighbor, on the other hand, such as with the Samaritan, may trump a commandment (such as the priest and Levite remaining clean before temple) to have empathy to care for the beaten man. Does anyone feel proud to stand before God and say they didn't kill anyone? Or that they helped someone in need? Two very different mindsets.

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No OT or NT command of God says to ignore someone who is in need as you walk along the road.

Freth said:

We've already seen what happens to a western society when God's law is removed as a cornerstone of liberty and freedom. As in the days of Noah.

Matthew 24:37-39 But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.​

2 Timothy 3:1-7 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good, traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God; Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away. For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts, ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

All in the same generation!

Matthew 24:34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.​

What happens when you remove God's law from the church? Laodicea. Lukewarm Christianity.

Revelation 3:14-20 And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God; I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot. So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.

Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked: I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see. As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.

Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me. To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.

He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.​

The prophecies of how society would be and how the church would be in the end time have been coming to pass.

Matthew 7:13-14 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.​

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We both cannot and should not follow all the OT letter of those laws literally and to the letter, etc, cause if we did, everybody would have to die, and would already be dead, etc, but what we are to follow is what the Spirit behind those laws was trying to truly and fully convey and/or accomplish, etc, or that Ones intentions, etc, which is only much more fully expressed, and/or is only much more accurately and fully revealed, only in the NT only, and only with the NT commands only, etc...

And that is, essentially, to take us back to a perfect world, or restore us all to perfection, etc...

That Ones intentions, etc...

And only the NT commands nowadays has any hope left only, of ever even hoping to get us (back) there nowadays only, etc...

And the letter of, especially all of the OT law, does not at all any longer, etc...

God Bless!

BobRyan said:

Moses and Elijah stand "With Christ" in Matt 17 before the cross - in glory.
Moses did not say to work on the Sabbath since "you are holy and anything you do is holy"
"The gospel was preached to us just as it was to them also" Heb 4:1-2
Gal 4 condemns the keeping of even one pagan day as holy.

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I don't think we want to take that passage in Hebrews to mean that God spoke the same words to the Israelites in the wilderness that he speaks to Christians today, if that's what you're saying.

Jesus talked about having more things he wanted to say to his followers, but they couldn't bear them all now.

Beanieboy said:

I'm more in the camp that loving your neighbor as yourself is loving God and fulfills all the Commandments, but preferred to lurk in these posts.

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In Matt 22 Jesus said that the two foundational commandments in the OT are this -
Deut 6:4 "Love God with all your heart"
Lev 19:18 "Love your neighbor as yourself"

Jesus said that all of scripture "all the Law AND the prophets" are founded on these two and upheld by them - rather than deleted by them.

Loving God with all the heart is expressed in "Keeping the Commandments of God" as John says in 1 John 5:3-4, not deleting or ignoring them.

Broad principles like the two commandments of Matt 22 get expressed in details - as in the case of the TEN where Paul says "the first commandment with a promise" is still the 5th commandment and still applies -- Eph 6:1-2

Beanieboy said:

However, something has me confused. I often here "We must follow God's commandments,"

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1 John 5:3 comes to mind
3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments; and His commandments are not burdensome. 4

Beanieboy said:

However, something has me confused. I often here "We must follow God's commandments," but I am unclear what they are referring to

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Eph 6:1-2 makes it clear that this includes that set of Ten where "the first commandment with a promise" is the 5th commandment in that distinct unit of ten..

In Matt 19 Jesus says "keep the commandments" and is asked "which ones"?
if you want to enter life, keep the commandments.” 18 Then he *said to Him, “Which ones?” And Jesus said,
“You shall not commit murder; Ex 20
You shall not commit adultery; Ex 20
You shall not steal; Ex 20
You shall not give false testimony; Ex 20
19 Honor your father and mother; Ex 20:12
and You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” Lev 19:18

Beanieboy said:

No one keeps that commandment.

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Rom 8:4-11 says that only the lost "do not submit to the Law of God - neither indeed CAN they"

Rom 6 says "you are the slave of the one you obey - either of sin resulting in death or of righteousness"

imge said:

Maybe you can provide that scripture. I know what you're referring to, but it doesn't say what you're indicating here and it doesn't mean that the only day God deemed His Holy Sabbath is obsolete or that we no longer have to keep.

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Colossians 3:17 Whatever you do, in word or in deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father, through him.

There are, of course, other scripture passages that relate to this issue.We have been bought with a price, we are not our own. Is there a particular activity that you do just for yourself?

BobRyan said: ↑
Moses and Elijah stand "With Christ" in Matt 17 before the cross - in glory.
Moses did not say to work on the Sabbath since "you are holy and anything you do is holy"
"The gospel was preached to us just as it was to them also" Heb 4:1-2
Gal 4 condemns the keeping of even one pagan day as holy.

Leaf473 said:

I don't think we want to take that passage in Hebrews to mean that God spoke the same words to the Israelites in the wilderness that he speaks to Christians today, if that's what you're saying.

Jesus talked about having more things he wanted to say to his followers, but they couldn't bear them all now.

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John 8 Jesus said "Abraham saw MY DAY and was glad"
Gal 1:6-9 - there is only ONE Gospel
Gal 3:8 that Gospel was preached to Abraham
1 Peter 1:10 As to this salvation, the prophets who prophesied of the grace that would come to you made careful searches and inquiries, 11 seeking to know what person or time the Spirit of Christ within them was indicating as He predicted the sufferings of Christ and the glories to follow.

So while we may have some details that they did not know about - the Gospel is the same according to the NT text.

There are non-gospel details like the failure of the Jews that may have been too much for them in the OT to stomach at the time.

But the death of Christ paying all the debt of sin for all the sins of the entire world - does not need a Roman soldier or a Jew in rebellion. Christ was already dying in Gethsemane sweating great drops of blood.

There will be no Roman soldiers or rebellious Jews at the lake of fire event "waiting to torment the lost". That is not "our debt"

Neogaia777 said:

We both cannot and should not follow all the OT letter of those laws literally and to the letter, etc, cause if we did, everybody would have to die

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There were civil laws calling for physical death in the OT - and those civil laws end with the nation/theocracy that they were given in.

There were moral laws such as "do not take God's name in vain" and as we see in Ex 20 - there is no punishment in the Ten Commandments - because they simply define what sin is. the text does not say that the only way not to take God's name in vain is to "kill those that do"

imge said:

If you read Colossians the Sabbath(s) plural is referring to the yearly Sabbaths Feasts, not the weekly Sabbath that was established at creation Genesis 2:3 and God wrote on stone as His everlasting covenant in Exodus 20. There is nothing in the 10 commdmants about food or drink.

I am glad you believe in the commdmants, but how much of a contradiction would it be to forget the only commandment that God started with REMEBER. God said His Sabbath is a perpetual covenant, meaning it can not be changed. Jesus kept the Sabbath (read the NT) and clearly said He did not come to do His will but the will of His Father and that He kept all of His fathers commandments and asked us to do the same. John 15:10

God said He changes not, which is why we will worship Him in Heaven on the seventh day Sabbath Isaiah 66:23 like He asked us to do now as a sign that we are His people Ezekiel 20:20.

God bless

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Sabbaths mentioned in Colossians 2:16 would include the weekly sabbath because it would be among the group of other types of Sabbaths. Romans 14:5 also lets us know that some regard every day alike, as well. Gentile Christians were not told to keep the Saturday Sabbath at the Jerusalem council, either. If there was ever a time to do so, this would have been the time because the Jewish apostles were trying to let everyone know that the Gentile believers were not obligated to be circumcised and to keep the Law of Moses (as a whole).

Acts of the Apostles 13:39 says, “And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses.”

This means no person on the planet can be justified by keeping the Law of Moses. They are not obligated to do so because the Old Covenant ended with Christ dying upon the cross.

imge said:

If you read Colossians the Sabbath(s) plural is referring to the yearly Sabbaths Feasts, not the weekly Sabbath that was established at creation Genesis 2:3 and God wrote on stone as His everlasting covenant in Exodus 20. There is nothing in the 10 commdmants about food or drink.

I am glad you believe in the commdmants, but how much of a contradiction would it be to forget the only commandment that God started with REMEBER. God said His Sabbath is a perpetual covenant, meaning it can not be changed. Jesus kept the Sabbath (read the NT) and clearly said He did not come to do His will but the will of His Father and that He kept all of His fathers commandments and asked us to do the same. John 15:10

God said He changes not, which is why we will worship Him in Heaven on the seventh day Sabbath Isaiah 66:23 like He asked us to do now as a sign that we are His people Ezekiel 20:20.

God bless

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Also.... you will not find any....

#1. Saturday Sabbath commands either explicit or non-explicit mentioned in the New Testament.
#2. Sins listed as breaking the Saturday Sabbath listed alongside other sins mentioned by the apostle Paul, and John.

Note: The keeping of the Sabbath by certain individuals does not equate with it being a command.

imge said:

You need to read things in context. If you read Colossians it is only talking about food and drink, not the weekly Sabbath.

Why would God tell us to REMEMBER His weekly Sabbath when He actually meant we should forget. If it was abolished, why will the Sabbath day still be REMEBERED weekly in heaven Isaiah 66:23 which is consistent when God said He is unchanging and that His Sabbath is a preputial covenant Exodus 31:16 Therefore the children of Israel shall keep the Sabbath, to observe the Sabbath throughout their generations as a perpetual covenant.

You are free to believe as you wish, but when Jesus comes He might question you why you think only 9 of the 10 commandants should be obeyed.

God bless

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I believe it is true that Isaiah 66:23 speaks during the time of the final New Earth. However, Isaiah 66:23 does not say that the Saturday Sabbath is the exclusive day of worship and neither does it say that the Saturday Sabbath is a command. It merely is saying that men worship on the Sabbath. I imagine God's people will worship God on every day in the New Earth and not just on one day of the week.

As for Exodus 21:16. It says that the covenant is perpetual and it does not say the sabbath is perpetual. Yet, we know that the Old Covenant has ended when Christ died upon the cross because the temple veil was torn from top to bottom. Jesus began a New Covenant when He died upon the cross. A New Covenant means new rules. But the problem with some today is that they have a problem of letting go of the old ways. For it is written:

“No man also having drunk old wine straightway desireth new: for he saith, The old is better.”
(Luke 5:29).