Removing the laws of God- what does it really mean?

[SabbathBlessings]

Yes, the spirit leads us into righteousness as we walk with him! And it is a step-by-step process, walking.

Then the strange thing that I see is that so few Born again Christians seem to be led step by step into keeping the Sabbath the way those groups that talk a lot about keeping the Sabbath do.

You asked
"So do you think the Spirit will lead you to not keeping Sabbath holy and breaking God's 4th commandment?"

No, I think the spirit will lead me into fulfilling the Sabbath commandment.

Someone may say that the spirit will never lead you into breaking the commandment.
That's true, and that's why I brought up the whole "driving on the Sabbath" thing. The thing is, we can't look at how someone else is earnestly fulfilling the Sabbath and say that they are breaking it or removing God's laws. Or not following the spirit.

That's how it looks to me.
Peace be with you!

What does that mean to you "fulfilling the Sabbath commandment"?

 

[Leaf473]

Why do you keep singling out SDA's or asking a non-SDA about SDA beliefs? This thread is not about SDA, it's about God's commandments. The SDA church did not create God's commandment. God did! He wrote them in stone to be eternal and than wrote them in our hearts in the New Covenant.

I am asking nicely if you can both stay on topic. There are other threads dedicated to SDA and Leif, we have a whole forum if you really want to know something about our beliefs or you can always look at our statement of faith on our church. I appreciate the interest, but I ask you both kindly to not derail this thread.

Sure thing!
I go through the posts one by one, so the post of mine that you are responding to was written before I read that you didn't want to talk about your church in this thread.

It comes as a surprise to me, to be honest. Most people like to talk about the church they go to. I believe we talked to extensively about Catholics earlier in this thread.

When you posted to me the two videos of Doug Batchelor speaking, I took that as confirmation that you wanted to talk about what he was saying and the SDA Church in general.

But sure, I can stop.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Sure thing!
I go through the posts one by one, so the post of mine that you are responding to was written before I read that you didn't want to talk about your church in this thread.

It comes as a surprise to me, to be honest. Most people like to talk about the church they go to. I believe we talked to extensively about Catholics earlier in this thread.

When you posted to me the two videos of Doug Batchelor speaking, I took that as confirmation that you wanted to talk about what he was saying and the SDA Church in general.

But sure, I can stop.

We have talked about other churches on this thread that has been in the context of the OP and done in a respectful way. It has now taken in a direction that is becoming offensive. Instead of making it about any specific denomination, probably best to stick to the OP.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Ah yes! Taking verses of Scripture out of context from three different books from three different authors, written at three different times to prove one's own personal doctrine. And you expect to be believed?

Again, read my signature below carefully, then apply it to yourself.

The two quotes you responding about are Words coming from Jesus. Are you saying Jesus is out of context from what He is preaching on the same subject?

 

[Leaf473]

What does that mean to you "fulfilling the Sabbath commandment"?

I believe we talked about the several hundred posts ago, but let's try a different approach this time.

I'm using fulfill and fulfilling the same way that many Christians talk about how the shadow laws have been fulfilled.

Those laws are still on the books, and we can gain great wisdom from them.
But we no longer perform the particular physical actions they describe.

God says his commandments, many of them the "shadow laws", are eternal, indeed he says all of his words last forever.

But certain things we no longer "do" with our hands.

 

[Nathan@work]

What does that mean to you "fulfilling the Sabbath commandment"?

I would like to answer this question also.

The only way to 'fulfill' the command is to never have broken it. Once a command is broken, it cannot be fulfilled.

So the only way to fulfill the command is to be found in Christ - through Faith.

However, we can obey the precept of the command even though we have broken it.

The precept of the command is the seventh day of creation - the day God rested.

God worked for 6 days, and then He rested on the 7th - never to create again. He did not repeat the cycle after the 7th day was over.

When we obey the precept of the command, we rest from our work as God did His.

[Heb 4:10 ESV] for whoever has entered God's rest has also rested from his works as God did from his.

Since our rest is in Christ, we not only obey the precept of the command - we receive the righteousness of the fulfillment because of what Christ did.

 

[Leaf473]

We have talked about other churches on this thread that has been in the context of the OP. It has now taken in a direction that is becoming offensive. Instead of making it about any specific denomination, probably best to stick to the OP.

I'm confused now.
Are you okay with people talking about SDA teachings as long as they are on topic with the thread?

 

[Leaf473]

I would like to answer this question also.

The only way to 'fulfill' the command is to never have broken it. Once a command is broken, it cannot be fulfilled.

So the only way to fulfill the command is to be found in Christ - through Faith.

However, we can obey the precept of the command even though we have broken it.

The precept of the command is the seventh day of creation - the day God rested.

God worked for 6 days, and then He rested on the 7th - never to create again. He did not repeat the cycle after the 7th day was over.

When we obey the precept of the command, we rest from our work as God did His.

[Heb 4:10 ESV] for whoever has entered God's rest has also rested from his works as God did from his.

Since our rest is in Christ, we not only obey the precept of the command - we receive the righteousness of the fulfillment because of what Christ did.

I think that would fit well with what it says in Romans about love is the fulfillment of the law.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

I'm confused now.
Are you okay with people talking about SDA teachings as long as they are on topic with the thread?

I said previously when discussed it respectful and kept in line with scripture and was more on topic with the thread. That has changed now unfortunately, where it is becoming derogatory, so the focus has shifted away from the OP. That's why I want to go back and focus on the OP. If you want to ask specific SDA questions there is a whole thread dedicated to it. Traditional Adventists | Christian Forums Thanks

 

[SabbathBlessings]

I think that would fit well with what it says in Romans about love is the fulfillment of the law.

And we obey God out of love according to Jesus. When we sin, we are not showing love according to Jesus.

John 15:10 If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father's commandments and abide in His love.

John 14:15 “If you love Me, keep My commandments.

1 John 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome.

If obeying was not important anymore, Jesus wouldn't be asking us to continue to obey Him. If you disagree you are not arguing with me. We are saved through our faith, but what are we judged on?

 

[Nathan@work]

I think that would fit well with what it says in Romans about love is the fulfillment of the law.

Love is the fulfillment for sure. I believe the way in which it does so is because love is truly a fruit of the Spirit.

In other words, it is not something we humans can conjure up. Love is a direct result of the 'nutrients and water' that come up through the roots, through the vine, and then out to the branches.

Love fulfills because it is Christ fulfilling them in us - we just simply show the result of the 'work' that God is doing in our hearts.

It is such an awesome thing to ponder!

 

[Nathan@work]

And we obey God out of love according to Jesus. When we sin, we are not showing love according to Jesus.

John 15:10 If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father's commandments and abide in His love.

John 14:15 “If you love Me, keep My commandments.

1 John 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome.

If obeying was not important anymore, Jesus wouldn't be asking us to continue to obey Him. If you disagree you are not arguing with me. We are saved through our faith, but what are we judged on?

We judge ourselves - or at least we should.

[1Co 11:31 ESV] But if we judged ourselves truly, we would not be judged.

[1Co 2:14-16 ESV] The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned. The spiritual person judges all things, but is himself to be judged by no one. "For who has understood the mind of the Lord so as to instruct him?" But we have the mind of Christ.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

I believe we talked about the several hundred posts ago, but let's try a different approach this time.

I'm using fulfill and fulfilling the same way that many Christians talk about how the shadow laws have been fulfilled.

Those laws are still on the books, and we can gain great wisdom from them.
But we no longer perform the particular physical actions they describe.

God says his commandments, many of them the "shadow laws", are eternal, indeed he says all of his words last forever.

But certain things we no longer "do" with our hands.

So you are saying God's Sabbath is a shadow law and we no longer need to keep the sabbath holy like the commandment states? Are the other nine shadow laws too, or just the 4th, the one God started with Remember, that is the commandment God should have started with "forget" ?

 

[pescador]

So you are saying God's Sabbath is a shadow law and we no longer need to keep the sabbath holy like the commandment states? Are the other nine shadow laws too, or just the 4th, the one God started with Remember, that is the commandment God should have started with "forget" ?

a) There are more than nine laws, many, many more.
b) Christians are not governed by law (including the 10 commandments) but by grace.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

a) There are more than nine laws, many, many more.
b) Christians are not governed by law (including the 10 commandments) but by grace.

Yes, I agree there are more than 10 laws.

We are saved by grace (God's gift) through our faith and because of our love for God, we obey Him like He asked. Do you think Jesus would of asked us to keep His commandments, if He didn't really care if we did?

 

[Nathan@work]

I explain it this way;

The Decalogue, literally "Ten Words" or in modern-day English - "The Ten Commandments" are the table of contents, if you will, for the book of the law.

In other words, the entire book of the law could be placed one after another under one of the 10 commandments - all except two laws.

Love God and love your neighbor. Those two actually summarize the entire book of the law(and the table of contents - the Decalogue).

This is why Jesus' answer to the religious leaders was met with no rebuttal. Not to mention, it was a test question, and this did lead to Jesus' "woes" to them in the very next chapter(Mathew 23).

They knew the truth, but they rejected it because they wanted their own way of doing things.


So in regards to the Sabbath, 4th commandment, literally, on the tablet, it would have said "Sabbath" with the direct regard/intention of "remembrance".

God did not write the whole verses, about working 6 days, not working the seventh, on the actual tablets.

 

[Leaf473]

And we obey God out of love according to Jesus. When we sin, we are not showing love according to Jesus.

John 15:10 If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father's commandments and abide in His love.

John 14:15 “If you love Me, keep My commandments.

1 John 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome.

If obeying was not important anymore, Jesus wouldn't be asking us to continue to obey Him. If you disagree you are not arguing with me. We are saved through our faith, but what are we judged on?

Love is the fulfillment of the law.
The shadow laws have been fulfilled.

In the same way that we no longer have to do things with our hands related to the Shadow laws,
so also we no longer have to do things with our hands related to the other laws.

When we love our neighbor, the entire law is fulfilled.
We may or may not end up doing things with our hands as the letter of the law requires.

Comments?

**************
We are to obey Jesus' commands, they may or may not involve doing things with our hands.

****************

Different passages in the scriptures talk about judgment in different ways. Is there a particular passage you want to discuss?

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Love is the fulfillment of the law.
The shadow laws have been fulfilled.

In the same way that we no longer have to do things with our hands related to the Shadow laws,
so also we no longer have to do things with our hands related to the other laws.

When we love our neighbor, the entire law is fulfilled.
We may or may not end up doing things with our hands as the letter of the law requires.

Comments?

**************
We are to obey Jesus' commands, they may or may not involve doing things with our hands.

****************

Different passages in the scriptures talk about judgment in different ways. Is there a particular passage you want to discuss?

What does Jesus say about how we demonstrate our love to Him?

 

[Leaf473]

Love is the fulfillment for sure. I believe the way in which it does so is because love is truly a fruit of the Spirit.

In other words, it is not something we humans can conjure up. Love is a direct result of the 'nutrients and water' that come up through the roots, through the vine, and then out to the branches.

Love fulfills because it is Christ fulfilling them in us - we just simply show the result of the 'work' that God is doing in our hearts.

It is such an awesome thing to ponder!

Yes, I like how you put it.

It's not something we can conjure up. It's not just "I'm gonna to try harder today".

 

[Leaf473]

So you are saying God's Sabbath is a shadow law and we no longer need to keep the sabbath holy like the commandment states? Are the other nine shadow laws too, or just the 4th, the one God started with Remember, that is the commandment God should have started with "forget" ?

No, I'm not saying the Ten commandments are Shadow laws, sorry I didn't make that clear.

Myself, I don't divide the law into some for today, some not for today. I think the law is a set of instructions designed by God as a single unit.

But some of my Christian brothers and sisters on this thread do divide up the law that way.

There are some Christians that believe that God will bring back animal sacrifice.
But assuming you don't think that, then we agree that at least certain laws have been fulfilled.

I'm just extending that to say that in the same way that you believe certain laws have been fulfilled, I believe the entire law is fulfilled when we love our neighbor.

Does that make sense, or do you want me to explain more?