religiously mixed marriage?

[meson]

Hey all,

I posted a version of this elsewhere, but I don't think there is much traffic so I will try a version here as well.

I am an agnostic type, raised in a nonreligious household, have nonreligious friends and so on. I have a Christian gf, and as a result have subsequently been to church a few times, bought a Bible been reading some of it, and so on. I admit, it's a steep learning curve but I am giving it effort.

When we started dating she told me she couldn't many an unbeliever, and told me she wanted to save sexual activity for marriage. Since then we've developed strong feelings for each other, and aside from the religious difference, get a long very well. As things went on, we slipped on her standards, something that she felt badly about, but now she is also pregnant. So while we are thinking about everything we want to do, confronting family and all that, I'm trying to learn as much as I can about her beliefs and background, like, why she didn't want to marry an unbeliever etc. If I understand this stuff better hopefully I can do a better job for her moving forward. Thanks.

 

[Thunder Peel]

Christians are called to marry other believers because our faith is the epicenter of our lives and the struggles you're currently experiencing are exactly why Christians marrying non-Christians is discouraged. Two people who are fully committed to keeping God first in their relationship, as well as in their individual lives, is essential and that's how God designed marriage. Someone who's passionate about their faith being paired with someone who doesn't understand or pursue that will be very difficult and usually leads to more and more problems as the relationship progresses.

I would encourage you to keep seeking God and opening yourself up to Him. However, it needs to be a personal decision on your part and something you come to because you honestly believe it, not just so you can marry someone. Faith is so much more important than that. I'm also a bit confused why your girlfriend knew she shouldn't marry an unbeliever and then decided to get involved anyway. I understand things happen and now you both have some important and tough decisions to make.

Keep reading your Bible and, if possible, find a pastor or someone you can talk to and who will be able to answer your questions. God's not surprised by your situation and He wants a personal relationship with you. Keep seeking and I will be praying for both of you.

 

[Puptart]

The idea of not being unequally yoked is to eliminate the believer from being controlled by the non-believer. It is assumed that when two people of different faiths come together, that the believer may be negatively influenced by the non-believer which would result in a stray of faith by the believer.

If this is not an issue, then I personally see no qualms about people marrying regardless of their faith. My husband is agnostic, he's an open-minded individual but just not interested in religion. What he believes or doesn't believe isn't going to influence me at all one way or another because my belief is personal, therefor we have no issues.

In scripture there is no such command that states "Thou shalt not marry an unbeliever". People get this interpretation by taking the words of Paul about being yoked unequally (which alludes to the unequal yoking of animals, such as an ox and a donkey, which may not turn out all that well in the sense of pulling a cart) and applying it to marriage. In fact, in all other aspects, Paul encourages believers to stay together, going so far as to say if your spouse doesn't believe then stick with them unless they choose to leave.

What I take away from the "unequally yoked" section of scripture, being unequally yoked myself, is simply that it is a warning to those who will listen: It may not go according to plan for you to get together and you might find that it isn't in your best faith interest to do so.. but it isn't a prohibition as most people seem to think it is. Paul did not say "Do not marry unbelievers", it is not sinful for a Christian to marry a non-Christian, but I won't deny that it may not be the wisest move for the Christian depending on the individual and his or her faith.

TL;DR: It is "better" that a Christian marries a Christian.. but it is not sinful to do otherwise.

That ALL being said.. this girl is pregnant and the baby is yours. I'm sorry but for me that trumps just about everything. If you love each other and you get along well (as you've already said).. get married. If faith has never been an issue for you guys in your relationship? Get married! And keep an open mind about God in the process.

If you want a good read on the subject, give this a shot: http://www.gracecentered.com/unequally_yoked.htm

 

[meson]

ThunderPeel, yeah I am wanting to fully grasp the significance of this for her sake. From my point of view it's hard to imagine why it's that big of a deal. It doesn't seem, to me, much different from having opposing political opinions or something akin to that. As to why she'd get that involved with me, she wasn't intending to, but we developed feelings very quickly.

puptart, thanks for sharing. I'm glad to know that it can work out how I understood it could. I'm certainly not opposed to her christianity so I can't help but feel some of these difficulties are overblown. More serious to me is the fact that her family, at the current time, is so opposed. At any rate, as far as her pregnancy goes, I'm absolutely inclined to agree. Now I am, we are, giving careful consideration about how to do what we think is right but without over alienating them.

Also, thanks for the article, an interesting analysis of the text.

 

[Puptart]

You'll have to sit down and have a long talk with the family I suppose at some point.. I mean one way or another, you're in their lives now and forever. That baby will always be yours and you'll always be in the child's life and subsequently that will almost guarantee you are in their lives as well, be you married to their daughter or not.

Mind if I ask your age? I guess I'm just curious what "stage of life" we're talking about here.. because it gets more complicated based on age obviously.

 

[meson]

I am 26, she is 22. My main concern here is that she is fairly close to her family and this is a very tough time for her to have a rift with them. But you are right, I have had comments along the lines of, won't the child be confused if we are married and disagree about religion? - as if I won't be there if we aren't married. Very strange.

 

[Puptart]

I am 26, she is 22. My main concern here is that she is fairly close to her family and this is a very tough time for her to have a rift with them. But you are right, I have had comments along the lines of, won't the child be confused if we are married and disagree about religion? - as if I won't be there if we aren't married. Very strange.

Children are more understanding than people perceive, and there would be a LOT of years to go before the child would even be asking such questions.. a 3 year old doesn't understand. A four year old, probably not.. five maybe? six before they start asking that kind of question? And at least seven, eight, or nine before they start comprehending the answers to said questions.

There's a lot that can happen in that time.. who's to say you won't be a Christian by then anyway (not that I'm presuming, but I'm saying the future is highly unwritten), and in the mean time the child will get to have two parents instead of one parent, which in my humble opinion here is the much better option. This isn't a situation where one parent is being abusive or negligent and the situation would be "better off without them".

I'd imagine her parents might treat it like that, though.. which is unfortunate.

It's also almost as though some people anticipate their children will grow up Christian and no one else ever won't be a Christian. The kid is going to go to school and have a variety of friends and heaven help us all: learn about the internet. (lol!) -- a child will be exposed to more things different from their own culture and religion in today's world than at any other time in human history.

You can't protect kids from the world. "Mommy believes in God but Daddy isn't sure, and that's OK because not everyone is the same". It's not the end of the world.

But I'm rambling at this point.. and unfortunately there's no changing your girlfriend's family nor their bond. You haven't picked an easy road, I wish I had better news for you and could say "It'll be all right in the end." Tough choices ahead.. none of them will be perfect.

Just make the best of it, and make sure you and your girlfriend have long talks to stay on the same page. You're both adults.. what do you and she want to do?

Above all else, never let your child forget that both mommy and daddy love him or her very, very much.

 

[meson]

Yeah, agreed. I don't think it's bad to be exposed to disagreement. We've had a few weeks to sit on this and we are fairly sure we are getting married. We think it's the right thing to do, and we both want to, aside from the faith and family question. The question is then when, how to involve family and so on. She hoped that she could get her family on board once the initial shock wore off, but that hasn't happened yet. Based on what she told me about their opinions on things, i.e. they don't think people should really date at all before marriage, it's not that surprising. I don't know if they are going to change their mind, or if they are going to soften up enough to be a part of things, but I certainly hope so.

 

[Puptart]

Ah, her parents are the "you ask my permission to court (not date) my daughter and then you don't kiss until the alter" type by the sounds of it. That's a tough crowd to work with in your position, for sure.

Does she live at home? Are you able to support her? I'm just trying to get a feel for the complexity of the situation.

Luckily you do have the whole "we're adults that can make our own choices" thing on your side, but obviously if you do decide to get married, and it does create a rift with that side of the family, you're going to want to make sure you can stand on your own financially because there won't be any help from that side.

What do your parents think, by the way? Not in the matters of faith or anything but what do they think about the pregnancy.. it'd be nice if at least someone in your life was semi-supportive or perhaps even a little excited about a baby/grand-child, even if it didn't exactly follow any sort of plan. I always figure no sense in pining about the past.. just have to take the present and work on the future. Having someone who isn't out to vilify you would be good for you, whether it's family or maybe close friends. Definitely turn to people like that if you have 'em.

 

[meson]

Right, that is the type. I don't know if they are anti-kissing before marriage, but have these courtship rules they think should be followed which definitely limit physical contact.She doesn't live at home. they wanted her to stay at home and go to college, but after a couple of years she decided she wanted a change of pace and moved in with a bunch of Christian girls across the state. She decided she wanted to figure out her own position on things and thought perhaps her parents way of approaching things was overly intense. That's actually how she got involved with me, having decided it'd be okay to go on some dates. She didn't want to fight with them about the whole thing, so didn't let them in on what she was up to that way, and didn't know I existed even until also finding out she was pregnant. I'm sure that didn't help things and I can sympathize with that.

My parents think I'm an idiot and have advice I have no interest in listening to. We usually get along okay. They aren't the, helping out financially kind, anyway. It's part of their parenting philosophy. I'm not exactly rich, but I'm not destitute either, and have good benefits. I also have decent earning outlook in a few years. I think we'd be okay either way.

 

[Puptart]

Right, that is the type. I don't know if they are anti-kissing before marriage, but have these courtship rules they think should be followed which definitely limit physical contact.She doesn't live at home. they wanted her to stay at home and go to college, but after a couple of years she decided she wanted a change of pace and moved in with a bunch of Christian girls across the state. She decided she wanted to figure out her own position on things and thought perhaps her parents way of approaching things was overly intense. That's actually how she got involved with me, having decided it'd be okay to go on some dates. She didn't want to fight with them about the whole thing, so didn't let them in on what she was up to that way, and didn't know I existed even until also finding out she was pregnant. I'm sure that didn't help things and I can sympathize with that.

My parents think I'm an idiot and have advice I have no interest in listening to. We usually get along okay. They aren't the, helping out financially kind, anyway. It's part of their parenting philosophy. I'm not exactly rich, but I'm not destitute either, and have good benefits. I also have decent earning outlook in a few years. I think we'd be okay either way.

It's good she doesn't live in the home of her parents, that would complicate things just about a thousand times over. The courting rules for some Christian parents are intense but they honestly believe it's what is the best way to go about things.. I'm not one to judge but it's just not my style all things said and done. Their intentions are in the right place though believe it or not.

My parents wouldn't have held me up either in the same situation, they reminded me of that when I was a teenager "Don't you dare get pregnant, and don't come to us looking for money if you do" lol. I still think if push came to shove though they would have come to my aid however they could. Hopefully once the shock and crazy die down a bit, maybe they'll at least be interested in being involved. Hopefully they at least wanna know their grandchild and such.

You don't have to be rich to make ends meet. It'd be nice, but not mandatory luckily Many a person and many a couple, even with a baby, has been able to pull off a tight budget. Just keep in mind that the two major stressors in any relationship are typically money and post-pregnancy, and you might find yourself dealing with both at the same time. Get smart about it now: Sit down and think of everything you two will need for baby. Do up a post-baby budget, costs-per-month factoring in things like baby clothes, food, and diapers and such (you can probably find some outlines on the 'net).. that's going to come in handy more than you will ever know because that way it's not going to come as a shock and end up being a huge stress factor. Know what you're working with and where the money will go.

You've got x-number-of-months (not sure how pregnant she is) to put some money aside toward what you'll need right away. Remember that you don't need top-of-the-line-everything, a lot of the baby stuff out there is just "Designer" as you get higher in the price brackets, the basics will serve you well. Also factor in all the costs for two adults rather than one.

The worst mistake new parents make is not making a physical budget, do the whole spreadsheet thing. Helps tremendously, we have no kids but I still keep a spreadsheet for our budget anyway.

 

[meson]

That's good advice. I haven't done the budget yet but she is also only a few months along at this point. Yeah, three people instead of one should definitely complicate things, especially since right now I am saving money living with roommates. Luckily I've managed to put a chunk of cash away like that.

My parents will come around. The nice thing about them is they are completely predictable to me. I know what they are thinking, and I know by the time the baby comes they'll be over it. Actually I think in two months they will. They just feel like it's their duty to point out the obvious, like, didn't you use protection? Because of course, none of that ever crossed my mind. They have their vision about how I should be doing things, and have been getting over the fact that I am not out to live their vision for years now.

Yeah, I know my gfs parents are doing what they think is best. The thing about them is that I don't know how well they will get over it. This is a much bigger deal for them than it is for anyone from my family or friends. Unfortunately I don't think there is anything I can do to help it at this point, short of getting run over by a bus.

My gf is uncomfortable with our situation now and I know she doesn't want to wait around much longer to marry. It puts her in a tough spot, whether or try to wait for her parents to be involved in some way, or not. I don't know, they are trying to change her mind. Last I knew they wanted her to come back with them and go the adoption route, which doesn't sound like a promising sign to me.

 

[Puptart]

Yeah that's tough, when you've got your parents basically saying they'd rather you give up your first born with an agnostic rather than keep it. That's their grand-child, and it's not as though she's 16 years old and pregnant.. I can't even comprehend how they could be asking her to do such a thing.

Don't get me wrong: If you guys felt that giving the child up was the best option, I'm not saying that's a bad decision. Adopting the child out to a loving family is always an option and is a sacrifice of love for the child having the best life possible.

But being essentially nudged toward it by your parents is a whole different story.

I guess I presumed you guys would keep the baby, as well.. it didn't dawn on me that you might give the baby up, my apologies for that. As I said that's a very loving option if you both feel it is best, but only if that's a decision made by the two of you together -- this is not a decision for her parents to make.

 

[meson]

No neither of us has any inclination to give the baby up. By the time we brought this to our families we had fully decided on that, though it was never a viable option for either of us. But they think that she should because she 'can't marry me and obviously 'can't' be a single mother. Yes, it is incredibly frustrating to deal with that sort of advice. Of course my parents think she ought to abort so that's not really much better.

I think people are insane. I'm not sure what other sort of explanation is possible. That's one thing our parents have in common, strongly opinionated though on opposite ends.

 

[Tink]

Scripture does state that a believer should not be yoked with/tied to/married to an unbeliever. This is why most Christians choose not to be married to someone who is not a believer. I have personally been down the road of being yoked to an unbeliever and it was very difficult. I can see why it was included in Scripture.

Good luck with your situation, and I would give you just about the same advice as ThunderPeel. Keep reading and being open. Watch for Him; He shows up in the most amazing and surprising places. Prayers for your situation.

2 Corinthians 6:14

New International Version (©1984)
Do not be yoked together with unbelievers. For what do righteousness and wickedness have in common? Or what fellowship can light have with darkness?

 

[meson]

Thanks tink. I think her pregnancy is changing the weighing of options here and we will just have to learn to live with some religious disagreement.

 

[Puptart]

Fact is, married or not you're already unequally yoked with her because there's a baby involved. You can't change that and frankly that's probably what annoys her parents so much. If she doesn't get rid of the baby, you will -always- be unequally yoked together. As I mentioned prior, unequally yoked does not refer to marriage directly (common misconception), it is just a statement of a Christian in a situation where he or she is tied to a person that could potentially control him or her and drag her out of alignment.. could be marriage, could be friends, could be family.. but not all situations involving different animals (rolling with this darn "yoked" analogy even though I'm entirely sick of it) would do that to each other. Some would work together. It's entirely possible.

You should see me hook up my American Eskimo and Papillon dogs on their coupler (which attaches them together). Different energies and personalities but boy do they work as a team

Anyway.. Since you're an agnostic and I'd err on the side of maybe "seeker" by the sounds of it, the first thing you should know about Christians? Some of us believe in using your common sense to judge a situation. We're not -all- like your girlfriend's family. I promise. And you don't have to be, either, should you ever choose to go in that direction.

Thanks tink. I think her pregnancy is changing the weighing of options here and we will just have to learn to live with some religious disagreement.

Pregnancy always changes everything, and I've no doubt you can make it work if you're both committed.

 

[meson]

Thanks, puptart, for all your feedback. Yeah I really thought it sounded crazy, but it's hard for me to judge what is the norm. It just strikes me as obvious that, we are adults, we love each other, we are both single, etc., that the reasonable thing to do is marry. That even having a baby doesn't seem to overrule this dislike for believers marrying unbelievers I have to admit took me very much by surprise. Even if my gf wanted to give the baby up for adoption, I wouldn't be onboard with that anyway, that is how I feel about it (and I know she does as well).

Now that I have thought about it all day, I planned for the worst in terms of reaction, but I am still disappointed. Not just her family, by the way, mine as well. I think it's amazing. I know it's not ideal. I'm sorry I put my gf in this tough situation. Given her inexperience I should have been a lot more diligent. But, that aside, I'm excited and happy for our future. I'm also not inclined to be patient with this gloom and doom from this too much longer.

 

[Puptart]

Now that I have thought about it all day, I planned for the worst in terms of reaction, but I am still disappointed. Not just her family, by the way, mine as well. I think it's amazing. I know it's not ideal. I'm sorry I put my gf in this tough situation. Given her inexperience I should have been a lot more diligent. But, that aside, I'm excited and happy for our future. I'm also not inclined to be patient with this gloom and doom from this too much longer.

You're about to be the man of a household/family. It may come to a point where you have to stand up to her parents and explain how it's going to be, not how it might be or how they want it to be. Obviously I wouldn't suggest you do so without getting the OK from your girlfriend because it would probably be the last step in a way... that step where you say "This is how it's going to be and you're either with us, or you're not going to be a part of this beautiful family." In the end it's their loss.

In Biblical terms, the man is often perceived as the head of the household/family in a lot of ways -- not to be mistaken with inequality, just for the record.. men and women are equal just with varying roles as per the Biblical view, not that I subscribe to much of the more traditional aspects of it all but I'll just put that out there for the sake of information. Even though "spiritual leadership" may not be your strong suit right now, there are still plenty of other ways you will be providing that role for your new family, and her parents have got to stop downplaying your role, else just concede and step (or be forced) out of the picture. They probably think you can't lead a family at all, and I hope you prove them severely wrong. All they have to lose is everything.. what a gamble they're willing to take to have control over a situation that is not theirs to control.

I realize parents will always strive for what they think is best for their children.. but I'm really glad my parents didn't haunt me into my adulthood trying to impress their personal values all over my life as I went. I made my share of mistakes, but I've said it a hundred times before: I'm a better person for having made my own mistakes and navigated through them. What is the point after all of raising a child if not to allow them to live their own life in adulthood.

Life is full of should-have's and could-have's.. we can all pine about the past at times, what we should and should not have done. But we can't change the past, all we can do is plan for the future and make the best of the hand we've been dealt based on the situation. Life is also very rarely ideal.

Congratulations on your forthcoming child, by the way. Obviously this was overlooked in the nature of the thread but you do have a little life that will make an appearance in the not-so-far future, and that I'm told is sort of a big deal

 

[Tink]

I'm sorry, Puptart. I didn't realize you were the final authority on the interpretation of Scripture.

Meson, I truly hope the best for all of you and congratulations on being a father. One thing is for sure, whatever your religion, staying around for your child is a noble and honorable thing.