Religious OCD

[QUannie]

[quote from Kitty]
Thank you for praying.
Actually.....seajoy is completely correct about my parents. They don't care one little bit. I'm terrified to even try to tell them because they would tell me that I'm fine, like they did when I was 12 and I told them that I had this irrational fear of dying in my sleep. My dad doesn't even believe in mental health disorders.[/QUOTE]

I am sorry.....I know ppl who do not believe in mental disorders too.

 

[QUannie]

I find it interesting that of all the advice I gave her, you chose to pick out this one sentence.

When I was young, my parents were very uncaring about my mental health, and would do nothing about it. They also said my problems didn't really exist. I saw parallels in our stories. Because of my parents not caring to delve into my troubles, I suffered untold hell later in my 20's. My goal is for this young lady to get the help she needs, or at least help herself so she does not come to the same fate I did. Sorry if that offends you.

I am sorry for what you suffered seajoy.....

You did not offend me

 

[Catherineanne]

Actually.....seajoy is completely correct about my parents. They don't care one little bit. I'm terrified to even try to tell them because they would tell me that I'm fine, like they did when I was 12 and I told them that I had this irrational fear of dying in my sleep. My dad doesn't even believe in mental health disorders.

Seajoy is right in this.

It is not actually that your parents do not care. What is perhaps more the case is that their denial is so strong that it overrides their normal parenting instincts to protect you. The result is that their own need to pretend that their family is perfect takes precedence over your needs for attention, and for professional help.

Perfectionist parents may well be very loving at times, but are also likely to be overly judgmental, and their parenting is likely to lead to anxious children, and ultimately anxious adults. You show me an adult with anxiety issues, and who perhaps also has a tendency to judgementalism, and I will show you an adult with perfectionist parents; those for whom nothing is ever quite good enough, and who will criticise everything and everyone. Not even glass half empty, but this glass is dirty, and I prefer cut crystal. Not necessarily their fault, of course. Chances are, their parents were exactly the same. It takes a lot of character to recognise this kind of dysfunctional thinking and to break the cycle.

Fortunately, you do not have to settle for this any more. I recommend borrowing the following book from your local library, and paying attention to what it has to say. It is not the whole answer, but it is perhaps one small step in the right direction. 'Know thyself' is a very useful adage.

Amazon.com: Toxic Parents: Overcoming Their Hurtful Legacy and Reclaiming Your Life (9780553381405): Susan Forward, Craig Buck: Gateway

One final point. Having a fear of dying in your sleep at 12 years old is not irrational. It is a very understandable reaction to the gradually awakening awareness of your own mortality. Had your parents not also been terrified of death, they could have told you this. I am not at all afraid of death, so I can tell you that those who are approaching the end of their lives are the least afraid of death, and very often see it as a friend; an angel to take us home. Generally speaking, the more afraid of death you are, the younger and healthier you are likely to be.

Clearly this does not apply to everyone, but had you been told this at 12, I think it might have helped. At least now you can understand that it was not irrational, but perfectly normal, and perfectly rational.

Peace be with you.

 

[Kitty.]

Seajoy is right in this.

It is not actually that your parents do not care. What is perhaps more the case is that their denial is so strong that it overrides their normal parenting instincts to protect you. The result is that their own need to pretend that their family is perfect takes precedence over your needs for attention, and for professional help.

Perfectionist parents may well be very loving at times, but are also likely to be overly judgmental, and their parenting is likely to lead to anxious children, and ultimately anxious adults. You show me an adult with anxiety issues, and who perhaps also has a tendency to judgementalism, and I will show you an adult with perfectionist parents; those for whom nothing is every quite good enough, and who will criticise everything and everyone. Not even glass half empty, but this glass is dirty, and I prefer cut crystal. Not necessarily their fault, of course. Chances are, their parents were exactly the same. It takes a lot of character to recognise this kind of dysfunctional thinking and to break the cycle.

Fortunately, you do not have to settle for this any more. I recommend borrowing the following book from your local library, and paying attention to what it has to say. It is not the whole answer, but it is perhaps one small step in the right direction. 'Know thyself' is a very useful adage.

Amazon.com: Toxic Parents: Overcoming Their Hurtful Legacy and Reclaiming Your Life (9780553381405): Susan Forward, Craig Buck: Gateway

One final point. Having a fear of dying in your sleep at 12 years old is not irrational. It is a very understandable reaction to the gradually awakening awareness of your own mortality. Had your parents not also been terrified of death, they could have told you this. I am not at all afraid of death, so I can tell you that those who are approaching the end of their lives are the least afraid of death, and very often see it as a friend; an angel to take us home. Generally speaking, the more afraid of death you are, the younger and healthier you are likely to be.

Clearly this does not apply to everyone, but had you been told this at 12, I think it might have helped. At least now you can understand that it was not irrational, but perfectly normal, and perfectly rational.

Peace be with you.

Hey,

I don’t want to turn into an anxious messed up adult, but I am on that road right now. I am constantly, obsessing, being anxious, etc. I have tried to talk to my parents over and over and over but they never listen and they never care at all.

I doubt my mom would let me get it, but I’m sure that I can at least read some of it online.

I got that fear when I started having panic attacks. I would be panicking out of my mind. My dad was like “Well it’s not likely you will die. You will be fine.” That didn’t make me feel better at all. I still panicked.
Thanks for responding

 

[Catherineanne]

Hey,

I don’t want to turn into an anxious messed up adult, but I am on that road right now. I am constantly, obsessing, being anxious, etc. I have tried to talk to my parents over and over and over but they never listen and they never care at all.

I doubt my mom would let me get it, but I’m sure that I can at least read some of it online.

I got that fear when I started having panic attacks. I would be panicking out of my mind. Thanks for responding

You are most welcome. I know all this because I am exactly the same.

Part of being an adult is letting go of the idea that our parents will become the parents we need them to be, if only we are good enough. Some parents are so trapped in their own dysfunction (unhealthy way of living) that they cannot be that person for us. It does not mean that they do not love us, but rather that they are a kind of bonsai person; they are constrained and limited, and they have nothing to give because they were given nothing when they most needed it.

The onus is now on you to accept that they can only be who they are, and that you will never have the parents you need. This will take a long time to work through, and will cause you a lot of grief; believe me, it takes years to accept, and it is very painful.

Emerging from this, gradually, you will learn to overcome the anxiety as well. It stems from trying to find the way to be acceptable to your parents. I can tell you with 100% certainty, it cannot be done. They cannot ever admit that you are good enough, because they themselves were never told that they are good enough. They want perfect, and perfect does not exist this side of eternity. Therefore, you can never win their approval; at best it will be half hearted; a grudging, 'well, that's not bad, I suppose.' These are the parents who, if you come home with 98% in a maths test will sit down with you to seriously work out what went wrong with that 2%.

You don't have to buy the book; use the library; order it and then read a chapter a week. If your parents see it, then say it is for a project. They don't have to know that you are yourself that project.

One final point. Perfectionist parents live in a world of blame, where everything always has to be someone's fault, and they constantly seek to ascribe fault and blame onto others, in order not to admit their own responsibility for anything at all. To a perfectionist, being less than perfect risks losing the fragile self that they have constructed, and so they fight against this every moment of their lives.

One important lesson when escaping perfectionism is to realise that very often there is no-one to blame, no-one whose fault it is. Sometimes bad things just happen, and very often to very good people.

My dad was like “Well it’s not likely you will die. You will be fine.” That didn’t make me feel better at all. I still panicked.

Quite right too. Perfectly rational. 'It is not likely you will die' equates to 'it is not likely but it is possible.' That is an adult view of reality, but not one suitable for children. A response suitable to a child is, 'You are not going to die.' and for an intelligent child; 'You are not going to die, because only the very, very healthiest children are afraid of dying. So that proves you won't, for a very, very, very long time.' And then maybe turn it into a joke; 'In any case, I am much older than you, and I am not going anywhere for at least 100 years, so you have ages yet. When you are big, I'm going to live in your house with you until I am at least 130 years old; maybe longer if I like it.'

Perfectionists are not very good at laughing at themselves. Learn to laugh at yourself, and you are half way to a far healthier outlook on life.

God be with you.

 

[Kitty.]

Part of being an adult is letting go of the idea that our parents will become the parents we need them to be, if only we are good enough. Some parents are so trapped in their own dysfunction (unhealthy way of living) that they cannot be that person for us. It does not mean that they do not love us, but rather that they are a kind of bonsai person; they are constrained and limited, and they have nothing to give because they were given nothing when they most needed it.

It’s kind of hard for me to let go of that idea especially because I am only 15. My parents definitely live dysfunctional lives. My mom did say that she hates me once.

The onus is now on you to accept that they can only be who they are, and that you will never have the parents you need. This will take a long time to work through, and will cause you a lot of grief; believe me, it takes years to accept, and it is very painful.

It makes me really sad that I don’t have parents to turn to for anything. It makes me all upset and hurt and kind of angry.

Emerging from this, gradually, you will learn to overcome the anxiety as well. It stems from trying to find the way to be acceptable to your parents. I can tell you with 100% certainty, it cannot be done. They cannot ever admit that you are good enough, because they themselves were never told that they are good enough. They want perfect, and perfect does not exist this side of eternity. Therefore, you can never win their approval; at best it will be half hearted; a grudging, 'well, that's not bad, I suppose.' These are the parents who, if you come home with 98% in a maths test will sit down with you to seriously work out what went wrong with that 2%.

I do get severe anxiety when it comes to making mistakes. I remember making pancakes with my aunt (even though she wouldn’t care if I made a mistake) and being terrified to make a mistake solely because I am used to being criticized harshly for my mistakes. Yes that has actually happened. I am homeschooled and when I take tests, my mom has to grade them. I dread the moment when she heaves this huge sigh and says something like “I thought you were smarter than this” when I only missed one or two.

One final point. Perfectionist parents live in a world of blame, where everything always has to be someone's fault, and they constantly seek to ascribe fault and blame onto others, in order not to admit their own responsibility for anything at all. To a perfectionist, being less than perfect risks losing the fragile self that they have constructed, and so they fight against this every moment of their lives.

Yeah my mom blames everyone except herself. Same with my dad. My mom always think everyone is watching her and talking about her. It’s not good at all.

Quite right too. Perfectly rational. 'It is not likely you will die' equates to 'it is not likely but it is possible.' That is an adult view of reality, but not one suitable for children. A response suitable to a child is, 'You are not going to die.' and for an intelligent child; 'You are not going to die, because only the very, very healthiest children are afraid of dying. So that proves you won't, for a very, very, very long time.' And then maybe turn it into a joke; 'In any case, I am much older than you, and I am not going anywhere for at least 100 years, so you have ages yet. When you are big, I'm going to live in your house with you until I am at least 130 years old; maybe longer if I like it.'

Perfectionists are not very good at laughing at themselves. Learn to laugh at yourself, and you are half way to a far healthier outlook on life.

God be with you.

Something closer to that definitely would have been better, but my parents hate dealing with any issues.
Thank you

 

[Catherineanne]

It’s kind of hard for me to let go of that idea especially because I am only 15. My parents definitely live dysfunctional lives. My mom did say that she hates me once.

I think it might help if you realise that although you are only 15, your mum is somewhere around 5. My daughter is 17, and the greatest joy in my life.

One sign of a good parent: child relationship is that my d can tell me she hates me, if she likes. It is never true, but sometimes children have to say these things. I bet you could never say that to your mum without her getting very, very upset; five year old mum throwing a tantrum. My mum is the same; she never grew up because her parents didn't know how to let her. Probably they never grew up either.

I have never told my d that I hate her, however. That is not the kind of language that adults use, and particularly not to children.

It makes me really sad that I don’t have parents to turn to for anything. It makes me all upset and hurt and kind of angry.

And quite right too. You are entitled to be angry, and you are entitled to be upset and hurt. These are normal emotions, and perfectly understandable in the circumstances. You signed on for caring parents, and ended up with bonsai people, who wouldn't know parenting if it fell on top of them from a great height.

One bonus, however, is that you yourself will make a superb mother when the time comes. My parents are rubbish; I learned everything about how to do it right from seeing them do it wrong. Your children will benefit hugely from this. That may not be much comfort now, but in years to come it will be.

I do get severe anxiety when it comes to making mistakes. I remember making pancakes with my aunt (even though she wouldn’t care if I made a mistake) and being terrified to make a mistake solely because I am used to being criticized harshly for my mistakes. Yes that has actually happened. I am homeschooled and when I take tests, my mom has to grade them. I dread the moment when she heaves this huge sigh and says something like “I thought you were smarter than this” when I only missed one or two.

Well, a good response might be, 'No, this is exactly how smart I am, mum. I am still learning.'

If you realise that what she is saying is about her need to have a perfect daughter, rather than your need to learn and grow, then it will all fall into place. Of course you are anxious. From the day you were born you have been put in the position of keeping your parents' imaginary world view intact. One day you may be strong enough to challenge it in a big way (as I have had to do with my parents) but now is seriously not the time.

Learn all that you can online or in the library about perfectionism, and about anxiety. It will all help. The anxiety comes from trying to get it not just right, but perfect. Let go of the possibility of perfection, and realise that you are only human, the same as everyone else, and it will get easier.

Yeah my mom blames everyone except herself. Same with my dad. My mom always think everyone is watching her and talking about her. It’s not good at all.

In her head she is right. Those people who are watching her and talking about her are her parents, being ever critical of her imperfection. Your mum is exactly the same as you, only unaware of it. The warning is, she is you the day you decide your parents are right, and their world view is the right one. I very much hope and pray you never do that. If you do, rather than having very fortunate children one day, you will simply repeat the cycle all over again.

Something closer to that definitely would have been better, but my parents hate dealing with any issues.
Thank you

You are most welcome.

Meanwhile, if you need parents, then adopt Our Lord and Our Lady. Look at how they work together, and follow that pattern. Accept that your parents are who they are, and that they cannot change, but that you can, and you certainly should at least try.

You don't have to worry about not having a therapist. If you can see as clearly as you do already, you don't need one. You just need to carry on being honest with yourself, and trying to escape the insanity of perfectionism.

God be with you.

 

[seajoy]

I just think we need to be careful, thats all. Sorry for offending you, I know you care and try to help. I think my intent on being careful not to label ppl as being un-caring as opposed to not understanding was taken wrong. Did not intend for it to bash or offend you.

I was having a very bad day that day - it's all good, Quannie.

 

[Kitty.]

I think it might help if you realise that although you are only 15, your mum is somewhere around 5. My daughter is 17, and the greatest joy in my life.

One sign of a good parent: child relationship is that my d can tell me she hates me, if she likes. It is never true, but sometimes children have to say these things. I bet you could never say that to your mum without her getting very, very upset; five year old mum throwing a tantrum. My mum is the same; she never grew up because her parents didn't know how to let her. Probably they never grew up either.

I have never told my d that I hate her, however. That is not the kind of language that adults use, and particularly not to children.

Having a mom that acts like a 5 year old is difficult. I wish I was the greatest joy in my parents lives.

I am not allowed to say that at all. My mom’s way of thinking is this: If I do something wrong, then she should be allowed to do that same thing wrong too. It’s like living with a mean teenager!

My mom has used plenty of language like that with me.

And quite right too. You are entitled to be angry, and you are entitled to be upset and hurt. These are normal emotions, and perfectly understandable in the circumstances. You signed on for caring parents, and ended up with bonsai people, who wouldn't know parenting if it fell on top of them from a great height.

One bonus, however, is that you yourself will make a superb mother when the time comes. My parents are rubbish; I learned everything about how to do it right from seeing them do it wrong. Your children will benefit hugely from this. That may not be much comfort now, but in years to come it will be.

I’ve tried telling my mom how I don’t appreciate how she acts and then she will say “Well you have a nice house and we have bought plenty of things for you. You are so ungrateful.”

I have thought of that. I know what exactly not to do when I have children.

Well, a good response might be, 'No, this is exactly how smart I am, mum. I am still learning.'

If you realise that what she is saying is about her need to have a perfect daughter, rather than your need to learn and grow, then it will all fall into place. Of course you are anxious. From the day you were born you have been put in the position of keeping your parents' imaginary world view intact. One day you may be strong enough to challenge it in a big way (as I have had to do with my parents) but now is seriously not the time.

Learn all that you can online or in the library about perfectionism, and about anxiety. It will all help. The anxiety comes from trying to get it not just right, but perfect. Let go of the possibility of perfection, and realise that you are only human, the same as everyone else, and it will get easier.

If I am not perfect, my parents make me feel realllllllllllly bad about it. I think that is where my urge to be perfect comes in.

I will do research about perfectionism.

In her head she is right. Those people who are watching her and talking about her are her parents, being ever critical of her imperfection. Your mum is exactly the same as you, only unaware of it. The warning is, she is you the day you decide your parents are right, and their world view is the right one. I very much hope and pray you never do that. If you do, rather than having very fortunate children one day, you will simply repeat the cycle all over again.

I don’t know if her parents were critical of her or not. I know for a fact that he dad wasn’t critical of her. I don’t think her mom was all that critical. I don’t want to accept her world view as the right one. I don’t want to repeat the cycle over again at all.

You are most welcome.

Meanwhile, if you need parents, then adopt Our Lord and Our Lady. Look at how they work together, and follow that pattern. Accept that your parents are who they are, and that they cannot change, but that you can, and you certainly should at least try.

You don't have to worry about not having a therapist. If you can see as clearly as you do already, you don't need one. You just need to carry on being honest with yourself, and trying to escape the insanity of perfectionism.

God be with you.

Yeah God is my Father. It's still difficult living with my parents.

Thank you for the support and encouragement.

 

[Catherineanne]

Having a mom that acts like a 5 year old is difficult. I wish I was the greatest joy in my parents lives.

I know this is really difficult, and I wish I could help. But realise this; you can escape, and you can have a life without this kind of dysfunction, and children without the pain you have had. You can create a new world for yourself. Your parents cannot.

In the end, they lose far more than you do.

I am not allowed to say that at all. My mom’s way of thinking is this: If I do something wrong, then she should be allowed to do that same thing wrong too. It’s like living with a mean teenager!

My mom has used plenty of language like that with me.

She is wrong to do that. Verbal abuse is never acceptable, and certainly not to children, who do not know how to deal with it, without taking it to heart.

I’ve tried telling my mom how I don’t appreciate how she acts and then she will say “Well you have a nice house and we have bought plenty of things for you. You are so ungrateful.”

I have thought of that. I know what exactly not to do when I have children.

Quite right too. Learn from your parents' mistakes, and you will find that life gets a lot easier for you.

If I am not perfect, my parents make me feel realllllllllllly bad about it. I think that is where my urge to be perfect comes in.

I will do research about perfectionism.

Very sensible.

Yeah God is my Father. It's still difficult living with my parents.

Thank you for the support and encouragement.

No problem; I'm here any time you need me. There but for the grace of God go any one of us, and I am just the same; a bit older but no less damaged.

 

[Kitty.]

I know this is really difficult, and I wish I could help. But realise this; you can escape, and you can have a life without this kind of dysfunction, and children without the pain you have had. You can create a new world for yourself. Your parents cannot.

In the end, they lose far more than you do.

I can escape when I am older lol. It will be hard creating a new world for myself, but I can do it with Christ's help.

No problem; I'm here any time you need me. There but for the grace of God go any one of us, and I am just the same; a bit older but no less damaged.

Thank you so much

 

[QUannie]

I was having a very bad day that day - it's all good, Quannie.

Hey seajoy....no worries, been there, we all have. I pray for what you are going through ....I read it on another thread.....I am really sorry for what has happened to you and your family!
Keep fighting th good fight seajoy......To God be the glory!!!
bless you!