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Even if they did you would still not trust them unless they confirmed what you wanted them to confirm.
If you are religious you will only ever see one side, yours.
By that interpretation of "by man came the resurrection of the dead" Jesus was a man just like Adam. He was not. He was the Son of God.
So if there was no connection between the Son of God and Adam, whence comes the efficacy of the crucifixion and resurrection with respect to human redemption?
You question is based on the false premise in bold above. I made no such claim.So if there was no connection between the Son of God and Adam, whence comes the efficacy of the crucifixion and resurrection with respect to human redemption?
True believing Christians are those who came to repentance and were coming to God in faith, through Jesus Christ. Faith or lack of faith in the theory of evolution does not determine whether they are believers. Those who still believe that evolution will have to at least come to see it as theistic evolution, but with honesty to themselves they will see a conflict of that with the character of Yahweh God, the Creator who made all things. Everything was very good, coming from God's perfection, with no limit on goodness and compassion, whereas the theory depends on survival by competition with death of many creatures from the very beginning. God's goodness is contrary to that.
Actually, God's creation had to include physical death from the beginning. Had it not, animal lifeforms would have overrun the earth in short order. The death referred to in Genesis 3 was spiritual death as evidenced by the fact that Adam did not physically die after eating the fruit.
Of course then God is not pleased with all our use of animals now.
Interesting comment. On what do you base that statement?
I'm having trouble seeing the connection between this and my post that you quoted.I understand many who give testimony of coming to Christ will still believe and have argument for the ages that uniformitarian thinking allows for the process of evolution of all the species, though it would not be learned from just reading scriptures. Unbelievers will argue against that belief of what there is of the biblical account. Seeing Yahweh God as all-powerful with being Creator is basis for saying that in the perfect creation that reflects God's perfect character there is not the suffering and death that we see in our world the way it is now. God has the power to accommodate all so that there would not be uncontrollable growth of populations that would be too much for God's provision. Though some don't see there isn't such limit to what God, who will even raise the dead, can and will do. Death is death even in what the Bible says, it does not define death the way interpretation of it might, to be only that of humans, or only spiritual death and never physical death. Other scripture passages show that animals are involved, both in the curse although it was really from human responsibility, and in the relief with redemption and restoration being worked out, to include the redeemed of humanity. The vegetarian diet was permitted from Yahweh for all the centuries until the global flood happened, and in those extreme conditions then meat from animals was permitted, with specific conditions for all having it that does not have all observing those now, also with various individual passages indicating God's care for animals, and visions of the restored world of God's perfect will, without suffering and death for any. This is not available to those who will not come to relationship with God the way it is made available, with persisting in unbelief going their own way.
When Adam, with Eve too, was cursed for turning to sin in rebellion to Yahweh, he with her was with the curse doomed to die, and as all their offspring were, plainly shown in scripture passages after the account of Adam and Eve, and it was shown that animals then had to die, too. All creation was affected.
Let me ask again because I don't see an answer in this.As seen in what is posted above, God's perfect will with creation is shown. Creation started with it, and the restoration is foreseen with that, and though it is not seen widely in the Christian churches, it is in the perfect will of God such as we who believe so as to seek God's will could come to. A good number more among unbelievers turn from dependence on animals, but believers might do that as animals are used now in extreme numbers with horrible conditions for them that were never a situation for them in Bible times, that being easily documented, one honestly looking will easily find out about it. I think just those prayerfully seeking the truth about it will.
Tell me this, people that believe in evolution, if you disagree with creationists so much, why is Christianity the only religion thats hated? and why do people only Use Jesus's name as a swear word and no one else's name? why do people hate christianity so much but not muslims? or paganism, I know why, because Satan is trying to get you to hate christianity and to turn to evolution, if it wasn't true then other religions would be attacked and mocked just as much as christianity, but every athiest I see only mocks and hates Christianity and the Bible, and just ignore the rest, does that not mean all of you know there is truth in the Bible? so you are trying to get us Christians to disprove evolution for you?
So you basicly are always asking US to disprove it for you, while you ignore every other religion, as I said before sense you do this YOU know there is truth in the Bible, and that it is the WORD OF GOD, but you want evolution disproved, even though you know its false already.
Alot of you will disagree with what I just wrote, but every athiest/evolutionist I've seen shows that they do believe in the word of God/The Bible, if you didn't you would just ignore it, and you would also attack other religions other then Christianity.
God has the power to accommodate all so that there would not be uncontrollable growth of populations that would be too much for God's provision.
Is there going to be suffering and death in Heaven? If not, how is God going to control the population in Heaven?
You do realize how big the universe is...don't you?
I understand many who give testimony of coming to Christ will still believe and have argument for the ages that uniformitarian thinking allows for the process of evolution of all the species, though it would not be learned from just reading scriptures. Unbelievers will argue against that belief of what there is of the biblical account. Seeing Yahweh God as all-powerful with being Creator is basis for saying that in the perfect creation that reflects God's perfect character there is not the suffering and death that we see in our world the way it is now. God has the power to accommodate all so that there would not be uncontrollable growth of populations that would be too much for God's provision. Though some don't see there isn't such limit to what God, who will even raise the dead, can and will do. Death is death even in what the Bible says, it does not define death the way interpretation of it might, to be only that of humans, or only spiritual death and never physical death. Other scripture passages show that animals are involved, both in the curse although it was really from human responsibility, and in the relief with redemption and restoration being worked out, to include the redeemed of humanity. The vegetarian diet was permitted from Yahweh for all the centuries until the global flood happened, and in those extreme conditions then meat from animals was permitted, with specific conditions for all having it that does not have all observing those now, also with various individual passages indicating God's care for animals, and visions of the restored world of God's perfect will, without suffering and death for any. This is not available to those who will not come to relationship with God the way it is made available, with persisting in unbelief going their own way.
When Adam, with Eve too, was cursed for turning to sin in rebellion to Yahweh, he with her was with the curse doomed to die, and as all their offspring were, plainly shown in scripture passages after the account of Adam and Eve, and it was shown that animals then had to die, too. All creation was affected.
I'm having trouble seeing the connection between this and my post that you quoted.
My argument is that it was not like that as it is shown in the Bible. What is shown, with no suffering and no death, is not the problem with God's creation that you say it would be. God is greater than that, and can keep a population from being overwhelming, even with no suffering and no death. All reproduction is from God. So what is said with saying "had it not" is wrong, as is that God's creation had to include physical death.God's creation had to include physical death from the beginning. Had it not, animal lifeforms would have overrun the earth in short order.
God's perfect will with creation is shown. Creation started with it, and the restoration is foreseen with that, and though it is not seen widely in the Christian churches, it is in the perfect will of God such as we who believe so as to seek God's will could come to. A good number more among unbelievers turn from dependence on animals, but believers might do that as animals are used now in extreme numbers with horrible conditions for them that were never a situation for them in Bible times, that being easily documented, one honestly looking will easily find out about it. I think just those prayerfully seeking the truth about it will.
Let me ask again because I don't see an answer in this.
What specifically makes you think that God is displeased with our use of animals?
You seem to be claiming that God would have had to constantly tinker with and micromanage the world he created. Is that the case?You said:
My argument is that it was not like that as it is shown in the Bible. What is shown, with no suffering and no death, is not the problem with God's creation that you say it would be. God is greater than that, and can keep a population from being overwhelming, even with no suffering and no death. All reproduction is from God. So what is said with saying "had it not" is wrong, as is that God's creation had to include physical death.
OK, I get it, you're a Vegan. However, none of what you have posted above supports your claim that God would be displeased by our use of animals. Was man not given dominion over the world to do with as he sees fit?Here is a perspective with a sequence of some scripture passages that relate to animals and our position.
[FONT="]God said, "I have given you every herb that yields seed which is on the face of the earth, and every tree whose fruit yields seed, to you it shall be for food."[/FONT]
[FONT="]Yahweh God said "It is not good that man should live alone."[/FONT]
[FONT="]Out of the ground Yahweh God formed every beast of the field and every bird of the air, and brought them to Adam to see what he would call them.[/FONT]
[FONT="]Then Yahweh saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every intent of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. So Yahweh said, "I will destroy man who I have created from the face of the earth, both man and beast, creeping thing and birds of the air." But Noah found grace in the eyes of Yahweh.[/FONT]
[FONT="]Then God spoke to Noah, saying, "Go out of the ark, you, your wife, your sons and their wives. Bring out with you every living thing of all flesh that is with you, that they may abound on the earth, and be fruitful and multiply on the earth."[/FONT]
[FONT="]Then Noah built an altar to Yahweh, and offered burnt offerings.[/FONT]
[FONT="]God blessed Noah and his sons, and said, "The fear of you and the dread of you shall be on every beast of the earth, on every bird of the air, on all that move on the earth, and all the fish of the sea. Every moving thing that lives shall be food for you, I have given you all things, even as the green herbs. But you shall not eat flesh with its blood. For your lifeblood I will require a reckoning."[/FONT]
[FONT="]It pleased the apostles and elders with the whole church, to send chosen men of their company to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas. They wrote this letter: "It seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things, that you abstain from things offered to idols, from blood, from what was strangled, and from sexual immorality. Keep yourselves from these, you will do well."[/FONT]
[FONT="]The earnest expectation of the creation eagerly waits for the revealing of the sons of God. For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of him who subjected it in hope, because the creation itself will also be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. For the whole creation groans and labors with birth pangs together until now.[/FONT]
[FONT="]"The wolf shall dwell with the lamb, the leopard shall lie down with the young goat, the calf and the young lion and the fatling together, and a little child shall lead them. The cow and the bear shall graze, their young ones shall lie down together, and the lion shall eat straw like the ox. The nursing child shall play by the cobra's hole, and the weaned child shall put his hand in the viper's den. They shall not hurt or destroy in all my holy mountain, for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of Yahweh, as the waters cover the sea."[/FONT]
[FONT="]"God will wipe away every tear, there shall be no more death, nor sorrow, nor crying. There shall be no more pain, for the former things have passed away."[/FONT]
There are many statements about God's perfection, and his compassion. For the Creator it would necessarily be unlimited. The use of animals today go far beyond what there was in Bible times.
Rate of Slaughter of Chickens, Pigs, and Cows in the United States, 2008, AnimalVisuals.org
Farm Animal Statistics: Slaughter Totals : The Humane Society of the United States
The Animal Kill Counter << ADAPTT :: Animals Deserve Absolute Protection Today and Tomorrow
This Is Worse Than That
Compassion alone, which would be had with godliness, does not lead us to take part in that, and it should speak to us to look into alternatives. But animals raised and slaughtered for us, instead of plants that could provide for us without anything close to as much demand on resources, has a tremendous impact on the world with its environments, and having meat the way most of us do is not even better for our health, there may be serious health issues from it. Using just a good variety of vegetable food is better for some things health-wise, including prevention of cancers, avoiding cardiovascular problems, and even reversing type 2 diabetes.
I'm having trouble seeing the connection.
Let me ask again because I don't see an answer in this.
What specifically makes you think that God is displeased with our use of animals?
You seem to be claiming that God would have had to constantly tinker with and micromanage the world he created. Is that the case?
OK, I get it, you're a Vegan. However, none of what you have posted above supports your claim that God would be displeased by our use of animals. Was man not given dominion over the world to do with as he sees fit?
Tell me this, people that believe in evolution, if you disagree with creationists so much, why is Christianity the only religion thats hated? and why do people only Use Jesus's name as a swear word and no one else's name? why do people hate christianity so much but not muslims? or paganism, I know why, because Satan is trying to get you to hate christianity and to turn to evolution, if it wasn't true then other religions would be attacked and mocked just as much as christianity, but every athiest I see only mocks and hates Christianity and the Bible, and just ignore the rest, does that not mean all of you know there is truth in the Bible? so you are trying to get us Christians to disprove evolution for you?
So you basicly are always asking US to disprove it for you, while you ignore every other religion, as I said before sense you do this YOU know there is truth in the Bible, and that it is the WORD OF GOD, but you want evolution disproved, even though you know its false already.
Alot of you will disagree with what I just wrote, but every athiest/evolutionist I've seen shows that they do believe in the word of God/The Bible, if you didn't you would just ignore it, and you would also attack other religions other then Christianity.
Of course we could just as well say that science is God trying to play man. i.e. Jesus?
Whenever we see a reference to "God's Word", it is the words of men. When you have a recording of God saying something about Man's Word, let us know.
1 Thessalonians 2:13 For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe.Whenever we see a reference to "God's Word", it is the words of men.
That very funny -- haha! Have you ever heard Christians singing in the Spirit? It's truly wonderful.
Tell me this, people that believe in evolution, if you disagree with creationists so much, why is Christianity the only religion that's hated?
Whenever we see a reference to "God's Word", it is the words of men. When you have a recording of God saying something about Man's Word, let us know.
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