Religions: A divisive force.

[scraparcs]

Its a good OP Tanzanos, I will say that!
However that looks at religions from the point of all religions and how man has been in them. Jesus Christ as the way the truth and the life doesnt bring religion as such, He brings life eternal through Him for all who believe. All who dont believe in Him would therefore be all of other religions and of no religion. And indeed look what that has brough mankind.

The Crusades? Witch trials? Fred Phelps?
There's good stuff too, but there's bad too.

The moral is, actually, that we are not to think ourselves equal to God in our endeavor. The lesson is humility.

In other words, God gave us brains but we had better not use them?

 

[MaxP]

In other words, God gave us brains but we had better not use them?

No, the moral is knowing where to apply our minds; the moral is trying to be like God is unattainable and prideful.

 

[MaxP]

The Crusades?

Just a note: the Crusades weren't 100% religion motivated; more pride.

 

[Garyzenuf]

No, the moral is knowing where to apply our minds; the moral is trying to be like God is unattainable and prideful.

Do you think he(?) may not want us to look because he's not there, and all we would find is the people who made up religion in the first place?


As for the OP, humans would have forund something to band together and kill each other over, it seems to be in our nature.

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[Garyzenuf]

Just a note: the Crusades weren't 100% religion motivated; more pride.

But would they have happened at all without religion?

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[Garyzenuf]

AS for the Tower of Babel, I get the impression from Scripture, that, had God not scattered the people, they would have become (at least more quickly), capable of even greater atrocities. Imagine, for example, if people had stayed altogether, pooling knowledge, resources, manpower etc....perhaps they would have become so technologically advanced earlier, that we would have had nuclear wars centuries ago...

...or cured all diesease and illness, stop all starving and...


Knowledge like religion can be used by humans for good or bad, the fault (or praise) we recieve from using either lies with us, not God, not science, us.

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[tansy]

...or cured all diesease and illness, stop all starving and...




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Fair point

 

[Beanieboy]

I believe that man made God in man's image.
Why would God not intervene in the Sear's Tower? We can "reach" God by going on a plane.

So, man had to understand, "Why have I come upon people that don't understand my language, and theirs is different as well?"
But they aren't "different". The are changes of each other.

Uno dos tres cuatro
Uno due tre quattro
Un deux trois quatre

What? Does God switch all of our languages?
Is God mad that we learn languages?

No. It is man. What have we done to anger God to have made x happen? I must have please God because Y happened.

And who can live that way?
I had read of people saying, "It rained on Gay Pride because God was angry!" But it drizzled, and people were still in good spirits. The next year, it was a wonderfully sunny day. Was God ok with Gay Pride this year?

We divide ourselves because we are human. Us vs Them.
And until you understand that everyone is our neighbor, that "We are the World", we divide ourselves in a very manmade concept, like the popular kids at school, vs. the nerds, the in crowd and people on the outside.

Religion allows us a tool to reach unity unless we stop worshipping the positive force, and replace it with worship of the religion, rather than the deity. Then we divide in the name of God, quote ""Do not think that I came to bring peace on earth. I did not come to bring peace but a sword! I came to turn 'a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law." and feel justified.

In the meantime, in the words of John Lennon:
Imagine there's no Heaven
It's easy if you try
No hell below us
Above us only sky
Imagine all the people
Living for today

Imagine there's no countries
It isn't hard to do
Nothing to kill or die for
And no religion too
Imagine all the people
Living life in peace

You may say that I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you'll join us
And the world will be as one

Imagine no possessions
I wonder if you can
No need for greed or hunger
A brotherhood of man
Imagine all the people
Sharing all the world

You may say that I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you'll join us
And the world will live as one


If one is killing their neighbor in the name of God, they have completely missed the entire point.
If one is using religion as a weapon to harm in any way, they are not serving God.

But if your religion leads you to loving your brother, you have found God:
"Brothers, let us love one another, for love is of God, and everyone that loves is born of God, and knows God. He that does not love does not know God, for God is love. 1 John 4:7-8, and I don't care what religion you claim to practice, this is true in both knowing, and not knowing, God himself.

 

[TheBear]

Interestingly, the god who caused the different languages at the tower, is the same god who insists he is not the author of confusion. Go figure..

That aside, has anyone actually looked deep into this scenario? We start off with everyone speaking the same language. Then, all of a sudden, they're all speaking different languages. The story doesn't specify whether there was a different language for each and every person of the human race. Taking it that far would mean that not a single person alive would be able to verbally communicate with anyone else, not even family members. Can you imagine a family of, say, 5, living in the same house, and speaking 5 different languages, no one being able to communicate with each other? The mother would utter something in a language nobody else understood. The father couldn't discuss retirement plans. You could forget the planning of that trip to Disneyland. And the tribal elders wouldn't be able to announce next week's Luau party. It's pure madness, I tell ya.

The more reasonable story is that in Mesopotamia, different tribes speaking different languages started gathering in the region, and the bible story is just some made up, ill conceived and poorly thought out explanation for the different languages.....just like Pele was used in other superstitions to explain volcanic activity.

 

[Polycarp_fan]

AutumnLeaf, I think what you mean is that if the God of the old-testament weren't so bitter and small-minded, then he wouldn't have changed their languages and scattered them about. Having a Kid really calmed Him down, didn't it?

Dictatorships with an absolute ruler, have been some of the most horrific forms of societies in human history.

In Babel, we had a guy climbing up to rule from heaven.

Ever seen what happened in the societies that worshipped in tall pyramids? It's a heart wrenching story. So to speak.

Many people were broken hearted by them.

Literally, figuratively and medically.

 

[MaxP]

But would they have happened at all without religion?

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No. They would not have happened at all if Muhhamed had not united the Arab tribes.

 

[Polycarp_fan]

Just a note: the Crusades weren't 100% religion motivated; more pride.

Are there any Christians celebrating the Crusades?

Our concept of life does not include holy and war being connected.

 

[Garyzenuf]

No. They would not have happened at all if Muhhamed had not united the Arab tribes.

C'mon Max, everyone needs a dance partner.

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[OphidiaPhile]

I believe that the human design is perfect, but I also think we degenerated. Also, we became separated from our spiritual life in God, whereas Jesus never did.

There is also historical proof, so I understand, of His physical existance at least.

The human form is not designed well at all from a biological standpoint, it is very much a compromise and is actually better suited to quadrupedal locomotion. And that tail bone sure has a lot of use in a species that no longer possesses a tail.

 

[Flibbertigibbet]

The human form is not designed well at all from a biological standpoint, it is very much a compromise and is actually better suited to quadrupedal locomotion. And that tail bone sure has a lot of use in a species that no longer possesses a tail.

Quadrupedal?? One of us is malformed then . . . I don't know about you, but when I try to walk on all fours, I get a massive headrush since my cranium is about a foot below my rear in that stance.

 

[OphidiaPhile]

Quadrupedal?? One of us is malformed then . . . I don't know about you, but when I try to walk on all fours, I get a massive headrush since my cranium is about a foot below my rear in that stance.

Your back and joints are better aligned for quadrupedal locomotion, at this point in our evolution we are very much a transitory species and will at some point most likely be better designed but that will be many many milenia.
The human back is very weak and is not truly capable of properly holding up the body that is why we have so many back problems as a species.

 

[Flibbertigibbet]

Your back and joints are better aligned for quadrupedal locomotion, at this point in our evolution we are very much a transitory species and will at some point most likely be better designed but that will be many many milenia.
The human back is very weak and is not truly capable of properly holding up the body that is why we have so many back problems as a species.

Hmm, and I was thinking that McDonald's was the root cause of a lot of those back problems. Ah well - next time my coworker complains about her back aching, instead of secretly thinking "drop the Big Mac" I'll very kindly instruct her to crawl about the office instead.

Happy New Year, Mr. Snake Lover. (I now have Shaggy's Mr. Bombastic running through my head. Oy, funky dancing dreams await me.) Did you eat some black-eyed peas today, or is that a purely southern thing?

 

[Verv]

We are taught in the OT that God was very upset by the human endeavour to reach him by building the tower of Babel. He thus made all the people speak in different tongues and caused a disunity amongst the various races. The moral here being that unity in mankind is abhorrent to God and that we should not search in quest of erudition.

What good have the various religions given us? All I see throughout history are wars, Massacres, injustice, persecutions, inquisitions, Witch burnings, slavery; All in the name of God.

The little charity that does happen is almost always the result of what is left over after a large percentage of the donations have gone to private pockets.

Islam, Christianity, Judaism, and others; are but reflections of ourselves.

Like someone once said: God made man unto his image and man returned the compliment!

Saying "war has been in the name of God" in a very true sense is like saying there were prostitutes in 15h century Rome "in the name of God."

People do all kinds of strange things in the "name of God," but what was the motivation for the wars?

Wars are fought for land and political gains; they are fought for money and resources.

And I think from Babel we are to learn a lesson: we should never try to be greater than God, for one, and it also has an important lesson in the fact that it shows all of humanity comes from the same basic source and was once all connected together.

You can take the messages any number of ways.

I'll tell you what...

Sometimes it is right to fight wars. Often times, it isn't. And nearly every time that a war is "right" it is right only because it is a reaction to a greater injustice that is occurring.

 

[tansy]

Quadrupedal?? One of us is malformed then . . . I don't know about you, but when I try to walk on all fours, I get a massive headrush since my cranium is about a foot below my rear in that stance.

Ha ha ha ha ha hahaaa!

 

[tansy]

Interestingly, the god who caused the different languages at the tower, is the same god who insists he is not the author of confusion. Go figure..

That aside, has anyone actually looked deep into this scenario? We start off with everyone speaking the same language. Then, all of a sudden, they're all speaking different languages. The story doesn't specify whether there was a different language for each and every person of the human race. Taking it that far would mean that not a single person alive would be able to verbally communicate with anyone else, not even family members. Can you imagine a family of, say, 5, living in the same house, and speaking 5 different languages, no one being able to communicate with each other? The mother would utter something in a language nobody else understood. The father couldn't discuss retirement plans. You could forget the planning of that trip to Disneyland. And the tribal elders wouldn't be able to announce next week's Luau party. It's pure madness, I tell ya.

The more reasonable story is that in Mesopotamia, different tribes speaking different languages started gathering in the region, and the bible story is just some made up, ill conceived and poorly thought out explanation for the different languages.....just like Pele was used in other superstitions to explain volcanic activity.

Well. I suppose it could be feasible that everyone spoke the same language, but when they were scattered their languages gradually changed, as languages have over the last several centuries...it may not be that suddenly, literally their languages were changed. Who knows?

That could be a whole thread on it's own.