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Religion and Ambiguous Language

Dre Khipov

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One of the most irritating things that I find discussing the religious topics with other people is the fact that a lot of religious concepts are wrapped up in a rather ambiguous language that people fill with their own concepts and ideas. Then, this language is thrown around as though everyone is on the same page, but when asked to deconstruct the meaning, people tend to struggle a bit.

When you understand the problem, it's sort of like pointing out a flaw in your favorite movie that you then notice in every scene and it spoils it for you , but for any religion to move on... that flaw has to be recognized and addressed.

1) Our modern lives demand precise language for accurate meaning.

In the past, the ambiguity was the cornerstone of wisdom. You'd see enigmatic personalities left and right, and the more ambiguous they were, the more wisdom they seemed to hold.

But, eventually, you have a large group of followers that parrot metaphorical concepts that are claimed to be understood, but end up being void of meaning. Modern science actually isn't immune to this either.

Some religious examples that I find most irritating:

God is love - What does that mean? It seems like a very imprecise way to define God. It's sort of like saying "My dad is freedom". It doesn't make much sense if one doesn't unpack the meaning.

God's love in our hearts - same thing. It seems that these are appealing to hopeless romantics in people rather than actually convey meaning.

Sinful Nature - That's a whopper of enigmatic concepts.

Blessing - It seems like a spiritual-sounding placeholder that means "anything good happened to me or other people"



I could go on and on with these, but the point being... one of the ways to yank people out of false idealism is to have them try to explain their beliefs to themselves. I think that there is reasonable faith these days, but it gets drowned and overcrowded and mixed with a lot of meaningless nonsense that tends to all be packaged as "religion".

Thus, I think that the best way to deal with the issue is to call out people on the metaphors they are using.

I generally say "If you didn't have this phrase or word, what other combination of words would you use to say the same thing? I'm trying to understand what you mean here exactly" There's a lot of nonsense that gets attached to emotional semantics, and it leaches off these emotional labels and metaphors.
 

juvenissun

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Of course, of course. It SHOULD be so.

We are talking about Theology. Just like some people talked about Chemistry.

People in a special field of study tend to use professional jargons that are usually confusing to laymen.
And when a layman started to pickup and used the same professional jargon without understanding, communication disasters happened.

However, because the ambiguity, it provides a lot rooms for conversations in order to clear things up. So, laymen could have some chances to learn something new.

If one is humble in conversation, the ambiguity can only be beneficial.
 
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Ana the Ist

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Some other examples could include...

"God"
"Perfect"

And my personal favorite...

"Timeless"

Timeless always appears to me as a term without any real conceptual background. I've never had one person who uses define it in a manner that tells me what it is....they only say what it isn't, which is entirely useless.

You're right though...many a discussion on this forum has stalled out entirely for want of understanding a term.
 
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talitha

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Well, for starters, "God is love" is taken directly from scripture but separated from context. People do this sometimes for a couple of reasons. Sometimes people do it because they either don't related to or don't understand the rest of the scripture that surrounds it, and they are picking and choosing. Sometimes the Holy Spirit actually speaks fragments of scripture to someone's spirit, and it conveys something to that person. Very well. But then it gets repeated so many times that what was originally conveyed is lost and all that's left is a fragment; we need to get back to the context - 1 John 4:7-9. That would be a good study, but we are hear to discuss ambiguous language.....

I agree that when people talk, they need to clarify the meaning of any jargon or ambiguous terms to include people who may not be conversant with those terms in the same way. If we never find ourselves needing to clarify, that means we have not ventured outside our own little bubble of likeminded Christians. How will we ever share the gospel in that way? How will we ever grow from what Christians outside our circle have come to know?
 
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JackRT

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A recent essay of John Spong's speaks directly to the questions raised in the OP:
 
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JackRT

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If Christianity is stripped of its meaning, why be a Christian at all, Jack? Sheesh.

Perhaps the meaning is not at all like you have been taught and assume it to be? Sheesh indeed.
 
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katerinah1947

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Hi,

While wading (trying to understand what you mean) through your rather wonderful (almost perfectly correct, or actually perfectly correct observations about words) set of ideas, only one thing scared me.

It is that words are not precise and never have been precise to everyone.

I saw only 8 points that you made above. I saw actually no flaw (things that I have done Reseach on and have the results for, meaning the data for in the way words are used in that field.) in any of your words.

P.S. I am not philosopher and really, I see no need for Philosophy outside of maybe that field, or in the practical (the little bit of philosophy) philosophy that was and is used on all of science to improve the answers, by eliminating self, (Prejudicial thougts or ideas), and actually always asking the questions (self checking while gathering data or even designing experiments) about the extent of knowing (how accurate you are compared to the Ablsolute or sometimes just calibrated items) and how one knows what reality is as it applies to the work at hand or the work being done.

Nice idea.

LOVE,
...Mary., .... .
 
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OldWiseGuy

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Supposed ambiguity is just a way to dance around a clear meaning that is recognized by most. Like the humorous 'literacy test' for voting given to southern black people, written in Hebrew. When asked if he knew what it said one old black gentlemen replied, "Yup. It says us black folks won't be voting again this year."
 
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LivingWordUnity

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ananda

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I find it unbelievable that the infinite Creator would give its message in a human language. As the OP pointed out, it would be subject to innumerable individual interpretations, among other problems (e.g. problems with propagation, preservation, translation, direct knowledge vs indirect faith, etc.). I prefer to believe that, if there is a Creator, its message has been given in the immutable, irrefutable laws of the universe which is directly evident to all, without need for "interpretation".

IMO any other "holy words" given in human language come from a lesser creature, perhaps a highly powerful deva or a brahma who possesses its own agenda, but not the infinite Creator.
 
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katerinah1947

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Hi,

Belief which you have used twice above, is the core of your message, it seems to me, yet it is belief with much personal input, rather than an objective belief.

And it seems that belief leads you to state that only a flawed creature would give words to a flawed creature. Never would God do that.

LOVE,
 
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Wgw

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This is an interesting point. I would counter however that our modern lives require precise language where precise infor,arion is available; the degree of linguistic precision required is proportionate to the amount and accuracy of the available information. Where ambiguity exists, dealing with exactitude is folly.

Some religious examples that I find most irritating:

God is love - What does that mean? It seems like a very imprecise way to define God. It's sort of like saying "My dad is freedom". It doesn't make much sense if one doesn't unpack the meaning.

The divine nature of God cannot be defined positively according to His essence, but only characterized through ambiguous statements, most of which are apophatic in nature. This owes to the logical difficulties in describing an infinte being.

God's love in our hearts - same thing. It seems that these are appealing to hopeless romantics in people rather than actually convey meaning.

This phrase, whilst admittedly more than a little saccharine, and not an authentic liturgical expression per se, is reflective of the personal piety and good-naturedness of those who utter it as a general principle.

Sinful Nature - That's a whopper of enigmatic concepts.

Not to a Christian.

Blessing - It seems like a spiritual-sounding placeholder that means "anything good happened to me or other people"

Here it seems your objection is more with ancient uses of human language as opposed to the philosophical or theologocal idea of a blessing, boon, divine benefit, grace, gift or act of kindness.


I think the meaningless nonsense is more prevalent among the "Spiritual but not religious" set or those who adhere to what one might call Moralistic Therapeutic Deism.

Thus, I think that the best way to deal with the issue is to call out people on the metaphors they are using.

Perhaps.


On a certain level, as an Orthodox Christian I salute your cold, dispassionate approach; ours is not an emotive form of Christianity and I think you offer a valid, if perhaps misguided, critique of what one might describe as touchy-feely-squeezy Evangelism.
 
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ViaCrucis

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A major problem is that many religious people, or rather Christians, are themselves rather oblivious and uninformed about many things in Christianity, including the meaning of certain terms and phrases. Personally I attribute this to a lack of proper catechesis and to a dumbing down of worship.

Precision in language is there, and yes terms do need to be unpacked because a lot of the language Christianity employs is very old and not originally English, most of it originates in Greek, and among Western Churches also Latin. For example, trying to explain what it means to speak of the "three persons" of the Trinity is simply not possible without understanding first that "person" is probably a really bad use that descends from the Latin persona which was a very contentious translation of the Greek hypostasis--which in Trinitarian terms is rather strictly defined (this is also a major reason why I usually avoid the term "person/persons" and choose instead to use the Greek hypostasis/hypostases and simply explain what that term means).

-CryptoLutheran
 
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Wgw

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The Greek fathers also used "Prosopon" and "Persona" is a more direct translation of that.
 
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Job8

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What's wrong with eternal -- no beginning and no ending? Would that suit you better?
 
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Job8

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One of the most irritating things that I find discussing the religious topics with other people is the fact that a lot of religious concepts are wrapped up in a rather ambiguous language that people fill with their own concepts and ideas.
Religion is neither science nor philosophy. And since Christianity is spiritual many concepts will appear ambiguous until the Holy Spirit reveals them to you personally. That is why Christ said "Ye must be born again" (which may sound ambiguous but it is a spiritual reality).
 
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