Relentless Reviewers Wanted!

[Tariel]

OK I need somebody really really really honest and picky who isn't afraid of "hurting my feelings."

In the Creative Writing fourum I have a story entitled "Secrets of the Meltra." I would love it if somebody - ok maybe a lot of sombodies would tell me honestly what they think. It doesn't matter how specific or how general. Anything that will help me improve would be greatly appreciated. The only thing I ask is that if you say that you don't like it, please explain why.

That's all for now!

DO NOT READ PAST THIS POINT UNTIL YOU HAVE READ "SECRETS OF THE MELTRA"

 

[Fledge]

I thought it was a pretty good story, but there were some things I wanted to point out, and will do so in approximately chronological order.

Okay, first of all, why on earth would a sensible girl like the princess be wearing jewlry for a fight? The fact that it's a necklace just makes it worse, as it could be potentially used to strangle her. I know it's a practice fight, but still...

Also, you can call me a sexist if you like, but unless the Meltra are physically gifted in ways humans are not, Eliel would have a hard time matching Arion strength for strength. With quickness? Sure. Endurance? Sure, another definite possibility. But muscle? The story does say that Arion is older than Eliel, and this would imply that he is beginning to reach his full strength, which would likely be greater than Eliel's (especially since something one of her cousins says later implies that she has a very slender build).

Secondly, Arion is said to be skilled with a sword, but you later reveal that he is a "talented young archer". Now I know that there is nothing impossible about being skilled with multiple weapons, but if he is the only person who fights with the princess, that would imply that he is (at the very least) one of the best swordsmen around. Like I said, I have no objection to him being skilled with a sword as well as his bow (although that implies his entire life circles around sword and bow), but wouldn't there be somebody else?

Third thing is the outsider who challenges Eliel to a fight right after the little sequence with the princess and Arion. Yes, he provides a way for the princess to get in "trouble", but it doesn't really lead anywhere. Now you haven't finished the story yet, so I'm not going to say that it's completely wasted, but just leaving it like that seems kind of like a dead end. (Throughout this review, please keep in mind that "amateur" is probably too kind a word for what I am, so don't take anything I say as "law".)

For this next bit, I'm assuming that the Meltra are a variation on Elves. (Please don't take this as an insult if I'm wrong, many fantasy authors have a race that looks very human, but has magical abilities or whatever.) If this is the case, then I'm not sure why Golodain is surprised by her perceptiveness or her ability to walk silently. I'm assuming that such traits would be typical for a Meltra, and since he is one, he should expect it from her.

Also about Golodain, he doesn't seem the type to avoid trying the impossible. Yet, he has never attempted to teach Eliel magic, or how to control such an ability (as the daughter of a powerful sorceress, I'm assuming she has considerable potential). Has he made such an attempt in the past and gotten burned?

I was kind of interested to note that the magical shield protecting Gondost was erected by the late queen. Wouldn't there have been some kind of shielding (even if only latent) set up back in the day when human and Meltra lived together?

Next, Golodain seems almost angry that Torog has given Eliel the necklace, and then two sentences later he is smiling at Torog. Hasn't that particular subject matter (the queen's youth) been thoroughly exhuasted by now? If so, I don't think Golodain would be all smiles quite so quickly.

The people in the party didn't have any warning that they were being attacked? I would have expected the king to put a watch on the walls as soon as he heard that an army was approaching, and any major city will have some form of alarm system. Also, the fact that the king even contemplated ambushing the oncoming army implies that the numbers are either equal or in the king's favor. However, the basic rule of thumb (if I remember correctly) is that the attacker must have three times as many soldiers as the defender when trying to assault a walled city.

As a purely English question, I've never associated the term "fluently" with anything other than language. Here you have it being applied to swordfighting (which is, in a way, another language), which seems kind of odd to me. A largely unimportant point, perhaps, and I could easily be way off base on this.

You might want to consider using something to delineate between viewpoints. Several times throught the story, you jump from one point of view to another without anything other than a blank line. Since this is also what you use when you are having two people talk, it is kind of confusing.

You would call a house that sleeps ten small?

A scheming sorcer of Fuingul's caliber doesn't have any way of knowing that somebody is approching him? If I were him, I would have at least set up some kind of an alarm spell so that I would know when somebody entered the building. After all, the one thing usurpers never like is surprises.

It seems to me that Eliel would have known that something was wrong with Drener (even if she couldn't put her finger on what it was) before he brought in the soldiers to capture her. Also, I don't recall any mention of a reward, but a heft reward seems like the surest way to make everyone in the kingdom keep an eye peeled. There are reasons for not posting a reward, but you haven't set any forth in your story.

Anyway, like I said, it was a pretty good story on the whole, and I'm looking forward to seeing the rest of it.

 

[Tariel]

Thank you sooooo much. You made some EXCELLENT points, many of which I will keep in mind next time I revise my story. If you want my specific replies to each comment, just let me know. Oh, and if everybody could let me know who their favorite characters are, that would be awesome! I have this stange obsession with knowing things like that.

 

[Fledge]

Most of the comments that I'd be interested in hearing your responses to would be things that would probably divulge more of the universe you've set your story in than you'd like.

As for favorite characters, I kind of hate to say this, but there hasn't been enough (key word is "enough") serious character development (the absolute hardest part of a truly great book) for me to become especially fond of anyone yet (I think that Golodain has definite potential though, provided he doesn't turn into an "old fart" by the end). Admittedly, I've only seen six chapters (would you let me know when you post more?) so it's not like you've tried to write a pure action, character free book like some I've seen. Anyway, keep writing, because even though I haven't seen very much, I bet you've got more talent than some authors who've been published already.

 

[Tariel]

I'm just going to explain everything If you read, you'll most likely find something you didn't already know. It's hard for me to be sure though...I know these people so well that sometimes I forget what the reader does or doesn't already know.

Okay, first of all, why on earth would a sensible girl like the princess be wearing jewlry for a fight? The fact that it's a necklace just makes it worse, as it could be potentially used to strangle her. I know it's a practice fight, but still...

You're right, this doesn't really make sense. It must have made sense at one point in time, but there really is no use for this anymore.

Also, you can call me a sexist if you like, but unless the Meltra are physically gifted in ways humans are not, Eliel would have a hard time matching Arion strength for strength. With quickness? Sure. Endurance? Sure, another definite possibility. But muscle? The story does say that Arion is older than Eliel, and this would imply that he is beginning to reach his full strength, which would likely be greater than Eliel's (especially since something one of her cousins says later implies that she has a very slender build

Secondly, Arion is said to be skilled with a sword, but you later reveal that he is a "talented young archer". Now I know that there is nothing impossible about being skilled with multiple weapons, but if he is the only person who fights with the princess, that would imply that he is (at the very least) one of the best swordsmen around. Like I said, I have no objection to him being skilled with a sword as well as his bow (although that implies his entire life circles around sword and bow), but wouldn't there be somebody else?).

First of all, I have to clear something up. Arion is not very good with a sword. He knows the basics and compared to some he is fairly decent, but archery is his primary concern. He fights Eliel because he is her friend and if it wasn't for him she would have no opponent. Kinda like why my friends play LOTR Trivia games with me now that I think about it....

Second of all, even if Arion is physically stronger than El, strength alone cannot win a fight. Eliel has enough skill to make up for whatever she may lack in strength.

Third thing is the outsider who challenges Eliel to a fight right after the little sequence with the princess and Arion. Yes, he provides a way for the princess to get in "trouble", but it doesn't really lead anywhere. Now you haven't finished the story yet, so I'm not going to say that it's completely wasted, but just leaving it like that seems kind of like a dead end.

For the most part, you're right. That part is kinda useless. I'll see if I can make it work...but if not...isn't that what the delete key is for?

For this next bit, I'm assuming that the Meltra are a variation on Elves. (Please don't take this as an insult if I'm wrong, many fantasy authors have a race that looks very human, but has magical abilities or whatever.) If this is the case, then I'm not sure why Golodain is surprised by her perceptiveness or her ability to walk silently. I'm assuming that such traits would be typical for a Meltra, and since he is one, he should expect it from her.

The Meltra are not simply a variation of Elves, though I'm not exactly surprised you came to that conclusion. The differences should be a little clearer later on, after...well to say anymore would spoil the story . As it is, these abilities are not specific to all Meltra, but are fairly common in Eliel's mother's family (more on that later in the story).

Also about Golodain, he doesn't seem the type to avoid trying the impossible. Yet, he has never attempted to teach Eliel magic, or how to control such an ability (as the daughter of a powerful sorceress, I'm assuming she has considerable potential). Has he made such an attempt in the past and gotten burned?

Of course Eliel has potential! The reason Golodain didn't try to teach her is that he was forbidden to do so. (Eliel was never supposed to know about her mother's heritage). Golodain, while he would have liked nothing better than to train El, respected the king's wishes.

I was kind of interested to note that the magical shield protecting Gondost was erected by the late queen. Wouldn't there have been some kind of shielding (even if only latent) set up back in the day when human and Meltra lived together?

I'm not sure if a shield was made back then or not, but even if they had created one, it probably would not have stayed in tact for hundreds of years - at any rate it would be much too weak to be any real help

Next, Golodain seems almost angry that Torog has given Eliel the necklace, and then two sentences later he is smiling at Torog. Hasn't that particular subject matter (the queen's youth) been thoroughly exhuasted by now? If so, I don't think Golodain would be all smiles quite so quickly.

First of all, I would like to know what you mean about the subject of the queen's youth being exausted. I don't quite understand. And it was a grim smile.

The people in the party didn't have any warning that they were being attacked? I would have expected the king to put a watch on the walls as soon as he heard that an army was approaching, and any major city will have some form of alarm system. Also, the fact that the king even contemplated ambushing the oncoming army implies that the numbers are either equal or in the king's favor. However, the basic rule of thumb (if I remember correctly) is that the attacker must have three times as many soldiers as the defender when trying to assault a walled city.

ok. 1) The king didn't realize how large the army was when he suggested ambushing them (and he's not exactly a military genious). 2) He wasn't expecting them to attack so soon. 3) He expected his wife's shield to save them. 4) He was operating under the illusion that "This is my daughter's special day, and nothing can interfere with that." Hope that made sense.

As a purely English question, I've never associated the term "fluently" with anything other than language. Here you have it being applied to swordfighting (which is, in a way, another language), which seems kind of odd to me. A largely unimportant point, perhaps, and I could easily be way off base on this.

I don't even remember where I wrote that. If you could let me know, I'll check to see if that was what I meant to say.

You might want to consider using something to delineate between viewpoints. Several times throught the story, you jump from one point of view to another without anything other than a blank line. Since this is also what you use when you are having two people talk, it is kind of confusing.

I had something. I really did! It just kinda disappeared when I transfered the story to the internet. I know, I know, excuses. But it really is the truth!!!!

You would call a house that sleeps ten small?

1) they're cramped. 2) You must remember that this is partly from Eliel's point of view. Compared to what she grew up with anything short of...well, something else that I won't talk about right now , would seem small.

A scheming sorcer of Fuingul's caliber doesn't have any way of knowing that somebody is approching him? If I were him, I would have at least set up some kind of an alarm spell so that I would know when somebody entered the building. After all, the one thing usurpers never like is surprises.

First of all, who's to say Fuingul doesn't have something? Perhaps he does have an alarm in place, but some of his most trusted soldiers (ok, one of them) knows how to get by unnoticed. It's not impossible. And for any who know how to get past the alarm, there's a little thing I like to call "Heavily Guarded Doors." The palace has always eben heavily guarded, so why should Fuingul mess around with tradition? It's impossible for a stranger to get into the palace unnanouced with them around. Unless, of course, you're Tatethel, but that's an entirely different story.... I'm sure that didn't really make any sense.

It seems to me that Eliel would have known that something was wrong with Drener (even if she couldn't put her finger on what it was) before he brought in the soldiers to capture her. Also, I don't recall any mention of a reward, but a heft reward seems like the surest way to make everyone in the kingdom keep an eye peeled. There are reasons for not posting a reward, but you haven't set any forth in your story.

Eliel didn't sense anything wrong with Drener because she was too sure of their friendship to even consider something wrong. Anything a little bit off that she did sense she would most likely attribute to nervousness and/or frustration with Fuingul.


It's good to hear you're enjoying the story, and I would be glad to pm you whenever I put up a new chapter. Number 7 should be coming in a couple of days, maybe after the SATs (stupid things). And don't worry, Golodain will never turn into an OF. (it's strange, but he and Arion tend to be the more popular characters).

 

[Fledge]

Thanks for clearing things up, Tariel. Still, there are a few things that I still think need some work, so I'll point them out and hope you don't object.

First of all, I have to clear something up. Arion is not very good with a sword. He knows the basics and compared to some he is fairly decent, but archery is his primary concern. He fights Eliel because he is her friend and if it wasn't for him she would have no opponent. Kinda like why my friends play LOTR Trivia games with me now that I think about it....

I understand that Arion would fight with El because of their friendship, but you explicitly state that he is skilled with a sword, and later on have him decapitating two attackers, and then lasting longer than the princess in a melee. I know that the soldiers would probably have been focusing on El, but all the indications are that Arion is definitely better than average with his sword. (As yet another side note, when looking back over your story, I noticed that you accidently put in "the Arion" in the part where Arion and El are teasing each other.)

Second of all, even if Arion is physically stronger than El, strength alone cannot win a fight. Eliel has enough skill to make up for whatever she may lack in strength.

Agreed. Strength alone will not win a fight, unless one person is considerably stronger than the other. However, from the way you worded it, the story appears to indicate that she is matching him strength for strength.

Of course Eliel has potential! The reason Golodain didn't try to teach her is that he was forbidden to do so. (Eliel was never supposed to know about her mother's heritage). Golodain, while he would have liked nothing better than to train El, respected the king's wishes.

Fair enough. The story never stated that the king had forbidden Golodain to teach his daughter, so I felt compelled to bring it up.

First of all, I would like to know what you mean about the subject of the queen's youth being exausted. I don't quite understand. And it was a grim smile.

I mean that Golodain and Torog have probably had this basic discussion ("tell me about my wife's youth." "I can't") many times before.

The wording of your story doesn't indicate any grimness in his smile. It would make sense for it to be a grim smile, but there is no indication that this is the case the way the story is written at the moment.

ok. 1) The king didn't realize how large the army was when he suggested ambushing them (and he's not exactly a military genious). 2) He wasn't expecting them to attack so soon. 3) He expected his wife's shield to save them. 4) He was operating under the illusion that "This is my daughter's special day, and nothing can interfere with that." Hope that made sense.

It makes quite a bit of sense, but I'm afraid it doesn't answer question properly. Even a militarily retarded king is likely to have one or two competent advisors, and from the sound of it, Golodain is more than merely competent. Likewise, this doesn't explain why there isn't at least a token watch on the walls, or why the alarm system failed so miserably. If Fuingul casts a spell or something, it would make more sense, but once again, the story doesn't say anything of the sort.

I don't even remember where I wrote that. If you could let me know, I'll check to see if that was what I meant to say.

Post #10, a couple of paragraphs after Golodain finds El and Arion to take them to the caverns. On the way back, the get jumped by a small group of soldiers, and Eliel "fluently killed three of their attackers" (this is also the place where Arion decapitates two men).

I had something. I really did! It just kinda disappeared when I transfered the story to the internet. I know, I know, excuses. But it really is the truth!!!!

I believe you. Funny things happen to your formatting when you try and transfer writing from one medium to another. (The little *** trick works pretty well)

1) they're cramped. 2) You must remember that this is partly from Eliel's point of view. Compared to what she grew up with anything short of...well, something else that I won't talk about right now , would seem small.

True, Eliel is going to view things very differently than you or I would, but even if they are cramped, they seem to have a bit of room to waste (the have some form of entertainment in every house as opposed to one or two common areas).

First of all, who's to say Fuingul doesn't have something? Perhaps he does have an alarm in place, but some of his most trusted soldiers (ok, one of them) knows how to get by unnoticed. It's not impossible. And for any who know how to get past the alarm, there's a little thing I like to call "Heavily Guarded Doors." The palace has always eben heavily guarded, so why should Fuingul mess around with tradition? It's impossible for a stranger to get into the palace unnanouced with them around. Unless, of course, you're Tatethel, but that's an entirely different story.... I'm sure that didn't really make any sense.

A usurper who actually trusts his chief lieutenant? Typically, people who scheme their way to a throne guard it very zealously, and allowing someone to be able to slip in without your at least being aware that somebody is coming seems pretty out of character. Especially if my memory serves me correctly, in that I seem to recall you explicitly stating that Fuingul knows that it is dangerous for him to start thinking of Arek as a friend.

Eliel didn't sense anything wrong with Drener because she was too sure of their friendship to even consider something wrong. Anything a little bit off that she did sense she would most likely attribute to nervousness and/or frustration with Fuingul.

Sure, I wasn't trying to suggest that she should sniff it out miles away. However, I would have thought that she might have at least felt a bit uneasy about something, even if she never got even close to figuring out what she was uneasy about.

It's good to hear you're enjoying the story, and I would be glad to pm you whenever I put up a new chapter. Number 7 should be coming in a couple of days, maybe after the SATs (stupid things). And don't worry, Golodain will never turn into an OF. (it's strange, but he and Arion tend to be the more popular characters).

I'm looking forward to it.

 

[Tariel]

Ok, all of your points are valid. My writing is NOT perfect (we all know that), and you have helped me a LOT. Thank you so much for all your help, and I hope that you will continue to provide me with your comments as I continue the story.

I am not going to respond to each of your comments individually, because there seems to be a common thread. I eaither need to A) make sure I word things clearer, or B) explain things that I keep forgetting the reader doesn't know. Does that about sum it up?

Oh, and I did mean to use the word "fluently" there. The definition I was working off of was, "effortlessly smooth and rapid."
Thanks again

 

[Fledge]

That's a pretty good summary, and my gripe with the word "fluently" was soley that it seemed kind of out of place to me. However, my writing is just as faulty (more so?) than yours, and word choice is often more a matter preference than anything else.

I look forward to reading more of your story when you get it finished.

 

[Lucubratus]

Hi Tariel,

I happened across this rather late, and read up to the second chapter before I got tired. (I'm spoiled for reading stuff off on word...lol) At any rate - I agree with a lot of what Fledge wrote, so I won't go there - but will emphasis the viewpoint structure you had going on in there. It did go flea-hopping quite a bit into other people's mindsets, and that is one of the things that made me 'tired' when I read it.
Stick to certain key characters heads and for minor ones, say -Estra for instance, show don't tell - what they are feeling. (Like her giving dirty looks when the necklace is given to Eliel)
Um...
The first part where Laurefin dies - I felt rather cheated. I mean, they "battled over an hour" ???? I would have liked to have seen some of their sorcery!! LOL! - what kind of magic is it they possess? Liturgical chanting, glamour, elemental control, summonings of spiritual entities or what? That would have been a nice opening - showing - not telling the capabilities of the Meltrans by a juicy battle of magic.
This also, is just my personal pet peeve - but when two characters are about to fight each other, they talk too much. If I were Fuingul and I was out to kill Laurefun, then I just would have ambushed her and had done with it. I realize you may have wanted to give the reader some pre-history between the two of them but their dialog was petty sounding, and their prehistory was explained in a conversation between Torog and Golodain; however - if you stuck into Laurefin's head while she was fighting him, we would already figure out her prehistory with Fuingul while also getting some good magic fights. (I never see enough sorcery in action in fantasy novels - even Gandalf used a sword and I was like ????? )
It could even be more emotional if she saw Isilion screaming as he was abducted. I already had jumped to the conclusion that Fuingul snatched him. lol

Okay so into chapter 1, I didn't get any flavor at all for the city and the King's palace. There was nothing about their banner colors, or what emblems they used, the king's insignia, etc. - no vendors in the street selling odd meats or something - something to set your background and culture of the people would have been nice.
In addition to that cultural aspect, some of the names of the characters don't really match up to their cultural flavor. Laurefin and Fuingul are similar - since they are both Meltran, but Eliel is as different from Golodain as Sahid is from Steven. If they are of mixed culture, that can account for the variation on names, but the phonics of the same kind of people in a dominate culture city have a similarity to them.

I also found it sort of odd that a Princess is getting ready to do school work before her in-laws arrived, instead of getting ready for them. There's some pomp and ceremony involved when you're in royalty - and there wasn't any. If they are an informal people, then it could be reflected through descriptions of the palace and the people in it.

My other pet peeve is the 16 year old princess who is a skilled swordsperson. I believe she was about 6 then, when her brother was snatched - so I guess if she leapt into training at that age then 10 years is fairly decent as a swordfighter; but this is a girl who also has to do school work, train to be a queen and all the blah blah royals have to do. It just kinda irritates me when I read stories of someone so excellent at such a young age, especially if they are in a royal familiy and are female. It stands to reason the males would because of armies and protecting the family, etc - sexist I suppose - but again, if their culture doesn't discriminate in this fashion, then it would be more logical as it is obvoius she couldn't very well sneak into a master swordsman class and force him to teach her.

I may have missed it when I didn't read Chapter 3, but in the other chapter the conversation between Golodain and Torog implied that Fuingul would be King? Aside from usurping - why would he be king at all? Is there some kind of tie between him and that woman Estra? Any kind of connection to the throne? If there is - I missed it, so nevermind - but if there isn't, I suppose that is something you've already worked on.

Okay so I didn't get any sense of tension or "menace" and Golodain's rather flippant attitude about an ambush lurking in the woods really struck me as odd. Maybe he has a dead pan way of speaking, but it didn't serve to heighten the atmosphere. I didn't like Eliel too much because of the same kind of flippancy. Torog's dialog sounded too scripted, as well. Especially when Golodain was telling him about Fuingul not being so dead after all. I would think if this was his best friend, he would have said something long before that and the motive with which he explains why he didn't, sounded too contrived.

That's about all I got out of it. The plot and everything is workable - but it needs more atmospheric background and separate chapters for the antagonist, protagonist would definetely help. Separate chapters for what I call the "supporting players" as well. A two or three page chapter in a printed book format isn't unheard of, especially for someone like Golodain and it stops the flea-hopping.

Hope that helped in some way.

 

[Tariel]

Thanks, you did help a lot. I don't mean to sound as if I'm writing of what you said in my comments, but there are a few places that I - as the author of this story - know what I'm doing

At any rate - I agree with a lot of what Fledge wrote, so I won't go there - but will emphasis the viewpoint structure you had going on in there. It did go flea-hopping quite a bit into other people's mindsets, and that is one of the things that made me 'tired' when I read it.
Stick to certain key characters heads and for minor ones, say -Estra for instance, show don't tell - what they are feeling. (Like her giving dirty looks when the necklace is given to Eliel)

Just above, I said that there are some of your comments that i don't agree with...well, this isn't one of them. Good point, I'll keep that in mind.

The first part where Laurefin dies - I felt rather cheated. I mean, they "battled over an hour" ???? I would have liked to have seen some of their sorcery!! LOL! - what kind of magic is it they possess? Liturgical chanting, glamour, elemental control, summonings of spiritual entities or what? That would have been a nice opening - showing - not telling the capabilities of the Meltrans by a juicy battle of magic.

I actually recently rewrote that part, showing the fight. It's my own personal rule that I don't officially edit any part of my story until the whole draft is done (it has it's drawbacks, but it keeps me from spending too much time editing a small part when half the story still needs to be done)...but I am definitately adding that part in.

This also, is just my personal pet peeve - but when two characters are about to fight each other, they talk too much. If I were Fuingul and I was out to kill Laurefun, then I just would have ambushed her and had done with it. I realize you may have wanted to give the reader some pre-history between the two of them but their dialog was petty sounding, and their prehistory was explained in a conversation between Torog and Golodain; however - if you stuck into Laurefin's head while she was fighting him, we would already figure out her prehistory with Fuingul while also getting some good magic fights. (I never see enough sorcery in action in fantasy novels - even Gandalf used a sword and I was like ????? )
It could even be more emotional if she saw Isilion screaming as he was abducted. I already had jumped to the conclusion that Fuingul snatched him. lol

Ok. Fuingul was not simply out to kill Laurefin. In fact, he didn't want to kill her, he wanted Isilion, and that would be that. In his conversation with Laurefin, he is trying to convince her to give up Isilion. When she refuses, he kills her, almost as an afterthought. He DIDN'T want to kill her, he only did it because he thought that it would be best, he was trying to give her a chance to 'redeem' herself so to speak. I understand that this may not be what come across in the story- I'm still working on it. But this is where I'm coming from, if that helps you at all.

Okay so into chapter 1, I didn't get any flavor at all for the city and the King's palace. There was nothing about their banner colors, or what emblems they used, the king's insignia, etc. - no vendors in the street selling odd meats or something - something to set your background and culture of the people would have been nice.
In addition to that cultural aspect, some of the names of the characters don't really match up to their cultural flavor. Laurefin and Fuingul are similar - since they are both Meltran, but Eliel is as different from Golodain as Sahid is from Steven. If they are of mixed culture, that can account for the variation on names, but the phonics of the same kind of people in a dominate culture city have a similarity to them.

Sorry, I'm still working on this...I know there's a lot in chapter 1 that needs work...I was mostly trying to get my basic story down, and worry about details later (I know it's not the best strategy...but it's how I work).

And about the names...it'll make sense (at least more sense) later on when you find out more about the Meltra. I promise.

I also found it sort of odd that a Princess is getting ready to do school work before her in-laws arrived, instead of getting ready for them. There's some pomp and ceremony involved when you're in royalty - and there wasn't any. If they are an informal people, then it could be reflected through descriptions of the palace and the people in it.

That part needs to go. I know it doesn't fit...it's an old part that made sense back in the old draft...but doesn't fit anymore. Not here. It's just that I was reluctant to compleatly get rid of it...since I totally changed that part from the old version I needed something to tie it together in my mind.

My other pet peeve is the 16 year old princess who is a skilled swordsperson. I believe she was about 6 then, when her brother was snatched - so I guess if she leapt into training at that age then 10 years is fairly decent as a swordfighter; but this is a girl who also has to do school work, train to be a queen and all the blah blah royals have to do. It just kinda irritates me when I read stories of someone so excellent at such a young age, especially if they are in a royal familiy and are female. It stands to reason the males would because of armies and protecting the family, etc - sexist I suppose - but again, if their culture doesn't discriminate in this fashion, then it would be more logical as it is obvoius she couldn't very well sneak into a master swordsman class and force him to teach her.

I didn't explain this? I thought I did...maybe I was going to and then it didn't fit...oh, I don't know. The point is, Eliel is skilled because it's a natural talent that she inherited from her mother. She was able to develop her skill with the help of Golodain, who taught her. No, it's not exactly normal/common in Starna, but then again, Eliel isn't exactly normal either . Sorry if this doesn't make much sense...

I may have missed it when I didn't read Chapter 3, but in the other chapter the conversation between Golodain and Torog implied that Fuingul would be King? Aside from usurping - why would he be king at all? Is there some kind of tie between him and that woman Estra? Any kind of connection to the throne? If there is - I missed it, so nevermind - but if there isn't, I suppose that is something you've already worked on.

No, you didn't miss it...all will be explained in time

Okay so I didn't get any sense of tension or "menace" and Golodain's rather flippant attitude about an ambush lurking in the woods really struck me as odd. Maybe he has a dead pan way of speaking, but it didn't serve to heighten the atmosphere. I didn't like Eliel too much because of the same kind of flippancy. Torog's dialog sounded too scripted, as well. Especially when Golodain was telling him about Fuingul not being so dead after all. I would think if this was his best friend, he would have said something long before that and the motive with which he explains why he didn't, sounded too contrived.

Sorry, I know I stink at writing diolougue. I'm still working on it...and once I get the basics done, I'm going to go back and revise all that cheesy sounding stuff. It really bugs me too, but I'm going to have to go through just concentrating on that to get it right...I'm actually going to do it with my best friend so that I can get instant feedback .

That's about all I got out of it. The plot and everything is workable - but it needs more atmospheric background and separate chapters for the antagonist, protagonist would definetely help. Separate chapters for what I call the "supporting players" as well. A two or three page chapter in a printed book format isn't unheard of, especially for someone like Golodain and it stops the flea-hopping.

Hope that helped in some way.

Short chapters bug me though. I don't like them very much. sorry, it's my story and I'll do what I want with it! HA! sorry 'bout that...I really do respect your advice, but I'm not a short chapter person. Actaully, I hate short chapters. I can't stand them in books I'm reading, so I don't see why I should put them in my own story.

Thanks, you really were helpful and I hope to be hearing from you as the story progresses.

 

[Lucubratus]

Thanks, you did help a lot. I don't mean to sound as if I'm writing of what you said in my comments, but there are a few places that I - as the author of this story - know what I'm doing

That's coo - but knowing and doing are too different things
j/k




I wanted to comment on some of your comments and not so much dictate as give some pointed opinions from experience - I used to be an editor of a small press magazine, and I've done co-editing on other 'zines AND....I've run the gamut with "professional" editors from publications like Dragon magazine and Realms of Fantasy. Writing for fun and your friends, and/or self-publishing is one thing, but if you're writing also to get published - following some "rules of writing" just increases your chances.

The part about viewpoint, glad you agree. But if you ARE going to insist on some viewpoints of the "cameo" character or "guest star" they really have to be part of plot advancement or add to the development of a "star" character. Otherwise, it's "show don't tell"
show what they are doing instead of telling us what they are thinking.
I notice the flea-hopping of heads routine the most in romance novels and it is very irritating to most readers. (I honestly tried to see if I could write romance just to get a quick buck but those paperbacks I read for research are soooo bad I couldn't bring myself to do it!)


Too many "minor" characters clutter up a good plot outline - Wheel of Time is a classic example. I know a lot of people are interested in it and I gave it a go once, but by the 9th chapter of Book 1 where nothing was really going on because he was introducing too many characters, I got bored/frustrated and opened up Book 2.
Whaddaya know - the same thing happened.
Most of the time, if the 3rd chapter doesn't grab me - I don't finish it. So I realllyyyy tried haaarrddd on WoT





I actually recently rewrote that part, showing the fight. It's my own personal rule that I don't officially edit any part of my story until the whole draft is done (it has it's drawbacks, but it keeps me from spending too much time editing a small part when half the story still needs to be done)...but I am definitately adding that part in.

Writing is re-writing. No harm there. Aside from your novel draft - do you have a basic completed outline draft? That tends to help.

Ok. Fuingul was not simply out to kill Laurefin. In fact, he didn't want to kill her, he wanted Isilion, and that would be that. In his conversation with Laurefin, he is trying to convince her to give up Isilion. When she refuses, he kills her, almost as an afterthought. He DIDN'T want to kill her, he only did it because he thought that it would be best, he was trying to give her a chance to 'redeem' herself so to speak. I understand that this may not be what come across in the story- I'm still working on it. But this is where I'm coming from, if that helps you at all.

That helps. I just didn't get that impression much during your first draft.


Sorry, I'm still working on this...I know there's a lot in chapter 1 that needs work...I was mostly trying to get my basic story down, and worry about details later (I know it's not the best strategy...but it's how I work).

Hey don't apologize - the novel trilogy I have? I have like gobs of scenes and excerpts of chapters from all three of them - all separated by character names and put into little 'puter folders that need to be cut and pasted inbetween narrative and descriptive bits of prose. Yay, I got my work cut out for me I tell ya!

And about the names...it'll make sense (at least more sense) later on when you find out more about the Meltra. I promise.

Wasn't that it didn't make sense, I was just pointing out fleshing out details that people typically tend to pick up on a subconscious basis.





I didn't explain this? I thought I did...maybe I was going to and then it didn't fit...oh, I don't know. The point is, Eliel is skilled because it's a natural talent that she inherited from her mother. She was able to develop her skill with the help of Golodain, who taught her. No, it's not exactly normal/common in Starna, but then again, Eliel isn't exactly normal either . Sorry if this doesn't make much sense...

Well I gathered somebody taught her, and I gathered she wasn't quite "human" after the fighting scene. I only said it was my pet peeve, really. I mean, I've read lots of stories of skilled 16 year old's with a petulant attitude and for me it's kinda boorish and makes the character unlikeable - something protanogists don't want to be to the reader. heehee.




Sorry, I know I stink at writing diolougue. I'm still working on it...and once I get the basics done, I'm going to go back and revise all that cheesy sounding stuff. It really bugs me too, but I'm going to have to go through just concentrating on that to get it right...I'm actually going to do it with my best friend so that I can get instant feedback .

That's a good idea. Someone once suggested if you get stuck with dialog to read it aloud and like you are acting the part and if it sounds bad to you - figure a way to improve it.



So do you have any kind of sourcebook or map fleshed out? That tends to help, too. Sometimes even brings on more ideas.

Cheers,

Rebecca

 

[Tariel]

I have something of a map, but I'm such a terrible artist that it doesn't do me much good. (I'm serious. I'm that bad. It does at least help with what's North or South. It's a really pathetic map, though. I drew it when I suppose to be listening to somebody talking, but I was bored .

Someday I would like to get published, but I'm only sixteen! I at least want to get through college first, so I have time. My friends keep telling me to get rid of that attitude, but seriously, I don't want to rush into this. My story obviously needs work, and, as I said, I'm only sixteen. I've got time. My aunt was in her mid-thirties when her book was published, I have time.

Sorry, I needed to rant. My best friend especially has been pushing me to start looking into publishing. She wants me to get published before I'm twenty. No way is that happening. I'm writing because I need some outlet for my overactive imagination and because it's a fun pastime that actually helps academicly. Can't beat that .

Thanks for your help. Oh, and what is a sourcebook? i don't know if I have one, 'cause I don't even know what it is

 

[Lucubratus]

I have something of a map, but I'm such a terrible artist that it doesn't do me much good. (I'm serious. I'm that bad. It does at least help with what's North or South. It's a really pathetic map, though. I drew it when I suppose to be listening to somebody talking, but I was bored .

Someday I would like to get published, but I'm only sixteen! I at least want to get through college first, so I have time. My friends keep telling me to get rid of that attitude, but seriously, I don't want to rush into this. My story obviously needs work, and, as I said, I'm only sixteen. I've got time. My aunt was in her mid-thirties when her book was published, I have time.

Sorry, I needed to rant. My best friend especially has been pushing me to start looking into publishing. She wants me to get published before I'm twenty. No way is that happening. I'm writing because I need some outlet for my overactive imagination and because it's a fun pastime that actually helps academicly. Can't beat that .

Thanks for your help. Oh, and what is a sourcebook? i don't know if I have one, 'cause I don't even know what it is

Don't quote me on this, but I think it was Stephen King who was publishing short stories in his teens. If not him - several have. Just do it when you're ready, is all..lol - what might not be a bad idea though, is to submit work to magazines anyway because some editor's will actually jot down a critique or two. Wouldn't hurt - but don't send anything if you think it sucks too badly. Likewise - don't always think everything sucks because then you fall into the trap of procrastination. lol


A sourcebook works WONDERS for organizing all that stuff coagulating in your brain. I can send you a summarized method on a sourcebook if you want on a word doc. through e-mail. It's bits of pieces of my own methods combined with what some other authors pointed out, organized. lol

Dont worry about maps. A cone can be a mountain, a star can be state capitol. Just as long as you know where you are going and don't accidentally have your character bumping into a mountain where there should be desert in the narrative is about all that matters! lol
and you're welcome

 

[Tariel]

A sourcebook works WONDERS for organizing all that stuff coagulating in your brain. I can send you a summarized method on a sourcebook if you want on a word doc. through e-mail. It's bits of pieces of my own methods combined with what some other authors pointed out, organized. lol

sure, that would be great. I've pmed you with my e-mail address

 

[kazuya]

i liked the whole storyline, but im really not good enough with grammar to give you anything of value. sorry

 

[Tariel]

that's ok...Glad u liked it. One question: who was you favorite character?

 

[kazuya]

Gargumel. Haha, jk. Actually, I liked the way you set up Eliel. So she's probably my fav. character.

 

[Fledge]

Don't let anybody push you into trying to get published before you think it's ready. Yeah, some authors get their first books published in their teens (I think one guy got his first book published at the age of 13), but unless you think your story is ready, don't try. There's no shame in waiting on something like that (unless you start just procrastinating ), and don't let anybody tell you otherwise.

 

[Tariel]

Gargumel. Haha, jk. Actually, I liked the way you set up Eliel. So she's probably my fav. character.

Really? Out of all the people I've asked, I think you're the first one who said she's your fav.

 

[Lucubratus]

I have noticed a disturbing trend amongst my friends when they tell me who their favorite character is upon reading some "excerpts" and the outline. They like this fellow in the storyline who is kind of the anti-hero, a prophesy in the storyline refers to him as the "Bane of Man" and his own son calls him a black hearted ****tard. His students tremble when this "Bane" grits his teeth and starts to talk in the third person because it's an indication that he's about to explode.
Yet for some reasons, my friends LOVE this guy and they threatened to kick my butt if I killed him off.