Relax, the planet is fine

Ave Maria · May 22, 2007

We're running out of oil, hurricanes have been rampant in recent years, starvation is prevalent in some parts of the world, and records are being set every day and you can say that the planet is fine???

mont974x4 · May 22, 2007

Easy..most of those claims are lies and half truths or at best misunderstandings

dcyates · May 23, 2007

MezzaMorta said:
My Lexus GS is hardly small or a death trap and it is a hybrid, gets up to 6 times the fuel efficiency of any pure gas car, has 450hp and all the conferts one could want in a car.

I heard recently that, it turns out, the carbon footprint that goes into the manufacture and operation of hybrid vehicles is actually greater than that of regular gas-powered vehicles. So much so that they're actually more harmful to the environment.

MezzaMorta · May 23, 2007

dcyates said:
I heard recently that, it turns out, the carbon footprint that goes into the manufacture and operation of hybrid vehicles is actually greater than that of regular gas-powered vehicles. So much so that they're actually more harmful to the environment.

News to me, if it is true unfortunate. Though I don't see how makeing a hybrid car would be that much more difficult or labours than a regular car.

either way still saves me money and I don't use as much gas.

dcyates · May 23, 2007

PeaceLover02 said:
We're running out of oil...

Are we really?

In 1885 the U.S. Geological Survey said there was little or no chance of discovering oil in California.
In 1914 an official of the U.S. Bureau of Mines estimated total future production at only 5.7 billion barrels. (By 1984 more than 34 billion barrels had been produced.)
In 1920 the director of the U.S. Geological Survey predicted that the U.S. had nearly reached peak oil production. (By 1948 production was over four times the 1920 rate.)
In 1939 the Department of the Interior predicted U.S. oil supplies would last only another thirteen years.
In 1949 the secretary of the interior predicted that the end of U.S. oil supplies was almost in sight.
In 1978 the premier of the province of Alberta, Canada declared that Alberta oil reserves would run out within another decade. (Presently, geologists speculate that the tar sands in northern Alberta alone constitutes nearly the world's largest oil field, second only to Saudi Arabia in total reserves.)

So, are we dangerously close to running out of oil? Sure we are! And this time they really mean it! Right?

...hurricanes have been rampant in recent years...

After 2005 set new records for hurricane-related damages in the U.S. we were told that, watch out, 2006 would be, because of global warming, even worse.
Then...
THEN...
Nothing. Not a single hurricane reached landfall in the U.S. throughout the season of 2006.

...starvation is prevalent in some parts of the world...

What?!? Food production has simply sky-rocketed over the last couple decades. On a per capita basis less people are starving now than ever before in history. And where there is "prevalent" starvation, it's not for lack of food but predominantly because of either government ineptitude or government corruption (and in some cases--like in Darfur--deliberate government planning).

...and records are being set every day and you can say that the planet is fine???

I assume you mean heat records. Sure, record temperature highs are being set. But records are always being set. I did a little experiment. I watched the news each evening and during the weather forecasts noted the dates of record highs. Occasionally these were set in recent years, but not nearly the majority. By far most of them were dated to the earlier half of the 20th-century, and I was surprised at how many of them went as far back as the late 19th-century. To what are we to ascribe record highs in the 1880s and 1890s? Rampant industrialization and unchecked CO2 emissions from their driving all those cars, trucks and SUVs?

dcyates · May 23, 2007

MezzaMorta said:
News to me, if it is true unfortunate. Though I don't see how makeing a hybrid car would be that much more difficult or labours than a regular car.

either way still saves me money and I don't use as much gas.

Yeah, I was genuinely surprised, too. And I heard the same thing on two separate occasions from different sources. (Although it is entirely likely that they were both relying on the same study.)

I guess it turns out that there are certain materials that go into their production that have to be refined and processed in various parts of the world. For instance, the zinc is mined in Ontario, Canada, but is then sent somewhere in Europe to be refined, and is then sent to China to be processed into the necessary auto part, which is then sent back to North America to be sold to the factory to finally go into the actual hybrid. All in all, the research showed that when summed up the energy output involved on a unit-by-unit basis was far greater than that of the production of regular cars. That, plus they're not expected to last as long as most gas-powered vehicles, so more of them will need to be manufactured.

Candide · May 26, 2007

Whether Global Warming is happening or not (though I know where I stand on that issue), everybody here must realize that the lifestyle most in the Western world are living is contrary to Biblical standards and ideals. The fact of the matter is, our consumerist, capitalist society is raping our environment. We are acting as though there is no consequence for our actions, and our resources will just grow back, magically. As Christians, we are called to be stewards of this earth (as well as prepare if for God's return), and to respect this beautiful creation. Unfortunately, very little of that is happening in the Western Church.

Voegelin · May 26, 2007

The worst environmental diaster in human history was communism.

I don't see anyone "raping" the environment in America. Looks pretty good. Better than when I was a kid. EU is tidy too. Dictatorial, socialist regimes in Africa and Asia are mess. The problem in Mexico is people live on land worth billions of dollars but have no clear title to it. There is no incentive to be a good steward because tommorow someone with more political muscle (mordida)might take it.

Candide · May 26, 2007

I'm not advocating for Communism of any sort.

How can you say that we are not raping our environment? We're cutting down forests, digging deeper and deeper for oil, polluting water and air. None of these things are being good stewards to the wonderful creation that God made. Having a Hegemony, the U.S. could set the standard for environmentally friendly policy, by using alternative fuel that doesn't pollute the air as much, and having an environmental policy that respects the environment rather than tear it apart.

gwynedd1 · May 26, 2007

Candide said:
I'm not advocating for Communism of any sort.

How can you say that we are not raping our environment? We're cutting down forests, digging deeper and deeper for oil, polluting water and air. None of these things are being good stewards to the wonderful creation that God made. Having a Hegemony, the U.S. could set the standard for environmentally friendly policy, by using alternative fuel that doesn't pollute the air as much, and having an environmental policy that respects the environment rather than tear it apart.

Reminds me the the Report from Iron Mountain "Hoax" that last 40 years has done nothing to prove it wrong. Al Qaeda and Global Warming are convenient threats.

http://www.theforbiddenknowledge.com/hardtruth/iron_mountain.htm

All the politicians had to do was raise gas taxes and give it back in other tax rebates or use it to build public transportation and research biodesal etc. Now they want to swindle us with carbon credits that is essentially an air tax that is the perfect breeding ground for fraud.

Candide · May 26, 2007

I'm not sure I understand your point.

I agree with what you say about Global warming and Terrorism being convenient political excuses and diversions from the real issues.

That being said, as Christians, we are called to be stewards of this beautiful creation, and we are not doing that.

gwynedd1 · May 26, 2007

Candide said:
I'm not sure I understand your point.

I agree with what you say about Global warming and Terrorism being convenient political excuses and diversions from the real issues.

That being said, as Christians, we are called to be stewards of this beautiful creation, and we are not doing that.

I tend to agree and in addition we must be careful that the solution is not a swindle.

I use daily and drive an average of under a few miles a week because I moved near the train.

http://www.xootr.com/xootr/images/scooters/mg-composite-1200.jpg

I also use folding bikes.

http://www.downtube.com/faq.html

This is my lawn mower:
http://www.cleanairgardening.com/scotclasreel.html

I actively compost all organic waste.
http://www.epa.gov/compost/

I refuse to ever own an SUV. I tend to avoid the corn based economy as much as I can which is subsidised by the same government that created the EPA.

Now when I tell you to beware of carbon credits I think my resume should add wieght to it. Preserving the environment should be a rather simple thing. The purpose of carbon credits is to transfer wealth by those that control the system.

You can start by adding coffee grounds to your garden. I take them from work. Forget the fertilizer, there is plenty of nitrogen in suprising places

gwynedd1 · May 27, 2007

I have not seen it myself but looks interesting.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4499562022478442170

gwynedd1 · May 27, 2007

http://www.nationalcenter.org/NPA334.html

http://www.radioliberty.com/pca.htm

I cynically wonder if carbon dioxide is the cause of the world being able to feed itself and that does not sit well with people who want to cull off the "useless eaters".
I am frugal because I believe it is a sign of disrespect to be wasteful. We do have a known history of causing polution in certain areas which has been corrected in many of those cases.

Let our leaders correct their prominant role in the ruin of our environment who seem intent upon destroying every flood plain they can find.

http://www.ens-newswire.com/ens/apr2006/2006-04-21-04.asp

Next stop the corn subsidies, that again is your government at work:

http://www.ewg.org/farm/progdetail.php?fips=00000&progcode=corn

Corn in particular is a crop that needs fertilizer provided by oil that our government subsidizes.

http://www1.umn.edu/umnnews/Feature_Stories/Ethanol_fuel_presents_a_cornundrum.html

The worst offenders are the same people that rule over you not your nieghbor.

jad123 · May 29, 2007

PeaceLover02 said:
We're running out of oil, hurricanes have been rampant in recent years, starvation is prevalent in some parts of the world, and records are being set every day and you can say that the planet is fine???

Yep. Stop watching CNN. I do have one question. Where was all the global warming talk this past Feb. when the North east was covered in snow???? Twenty five years ago we were being told we would be in an ice age right now. The majority of scientist really knew what they were talking about then huh.

As for hurricanes, what increase? THe number of hurricanes has always been up and down like a yoyo.

1877 - 8
1887 - 17
1927 - 7
1933 - 21
1940 - 8
1950 -13
1960 - 7
1970 - 10
1985 - 11
1990- 14
1994 - 7
1995 - 19
2000 - 15
2005 - 28
2006 - 10

Many climatologist believe that there is a definate cycle to hurricane activity that lasts about 20-25 years and that we are in an up swing that will last about 5-10 more years.

Candide · May 29, 2007

But that's not the point!

As Christians, we need to be respecting God's creation more than we are presently.

mont974x4 · May 29, 2007

We must be careful to not put the creation before the Creator.

God created all this for us, for our use and pleasure. We should use it wisely but not worship it and certainly don't place it higher than man or God.

jad123 · May 29, 2007

Candide said:
But that's not the point!

As Christians, we need to be respecting God's creation more than we are presently.

In what way are we disrespecting God's creation? What is the point? Should I get rid of my big old truck and drive around on a bike?

mont974x4 · May 29, 2007

woohoo now the wife HAS to let me get that Harley!!

Candide · May 30, 2007

jad123 said:
In what way are we disrespecting God's creation? What is the point? Should I get rid of my big old truck and drive around on a bike?

We're cutting down his trees, polluting his air, and doing many more things with seemingly no mind to what the consequences of our actions are.

I'm not saying that you're not a Christian if you drive a truck, but I'm saying that I couldn't justify driving a machine that helps kill God's creation, just for the sake of "owning a truck" or "making my life easier".

As well, I'm not advocating that we worship the Earth. Simply that we recognize that it's God's beautiful creation (which he loved), and the we respect it, and change our lifestyles accordingly.

Relax, the planet is fine

Ave Maria Gratia Plena

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