Relativity, version 2

[The Gregorian]

I have an idea for an experiment, but I'd rather not derail the other thread, so we'll try it here.

We've known gravity to exist for thousands of years. It's as undeniable as... gravity. Yet, general relativity suggests that there is no "force" of gravity... instead, celestial bodies move straight through the curved space/time created around another massive body. This way, light may be affected by gravity, without gravity being faster than light.

So, if spacetime's curviture is what brings us back to the ground when we jump up... why do we stand up straight through this curved space time? Obviously einstein did not understand that gravity is a force. At this point, it's the standard among the scientific community. Why do some people not understand that gravity is a force rather than a static spacial/temporal distortion? Do scientists today simply not understand the math?

 

[Cabal]

Obviously einstein did not understand that gravity is a force.

 

[[serious]]

I have an idea for an experiment, but I'd rather not derail the other thread, so we'll try it here.

We've known gravity to exist for thousands of years. It's as undeniable as... gravity. Yet, general relativity suggests that there is no "force" of gravity... instead, celestial bodies move straight through the curved space/time created around another massive body. This way, light may be affected by gravity, without gravity being faster than light.

So, if spacetime's curviture is what brings us back to the ground when we jump up... why do we stand up straight through this curved space time? Obviously einstein did not understand that gravity is a force. At this point, it's the standard among the scientific community. Why do some people not understand that gravity is a force rather than a static spacial/temporal distortion? Do scientists today simply not understand the math?

Space/time is curved through a seperate dimention. Not through the standard 3.

This arrow is pointing to the right on the two dimentional space that is the screen ---> Is it going into or out of the screen? Is it facing to the right from all perspectives? If we viewed the screen from the back wouldn't is be pointing left? If we rotated the screen we could make it point any direcction except into or out of the screen. Same way with curved space/time.

 

[LifeToTheFullest!]

I have an idea for an experiment, but I'd rather not derail the other thread, so we'll try it here.

We've known gravity to exist for thousands of years. It's as undeniable as... gravity. Yet, general relativity suggests that there is no "force" of gravity... instead, celestial bodies move straight through the curved space/time created around another massive body. This way, light may be affected by gravity, without gravity being faster than light.

So, if spacetime's curviture is what brings us back to the ground when we jump up... why do we stand up straight through this curved space time? Obviously einstein did not understand that gravity is a force. At this point, it's the standard among the scientific community. Why do some people not understand that gravity is a force rather than a static spacial/temporal distortion? Do scientists today simply not understand the math?

I think it is more likely that you have no idea what you're talking about.

 

[Freodin]

Why do some people not understand that gravity is a force rather than a static spacial/temporal distortion? Do scientists today simply not understand the math?

I won´t claim that I understand the math of Einstein´s work. But the principle you are ignoring here rather simple:

In Newtonian mechanics, an object stays in its current condition - at rest or moving at constant speed in a straigh line - as long as no force acts on it.
When an object moves though a curved space, it seems to move in a curve, not a line. So from the Newtonian point of view, there must be a force acting on this object. This "force" is called gravity.

The math is the same. The result is the same. Only the conditions are different.

 

[TemperateSeaIsland]

I think it is more likely that you have no idea what you're talking about.

...........................

 

[The Gregorian]

Space/time is curved through a seperate dimention. Not through the standard 3.

The fact that you don't agree with newtonian math obviously shows you don't understand it.

<staff edit>

 

[Cabal]

The fact that you don't agree with newtonian math obviously shows you don't understand it.



People like you renew my faith in euthanasia. ::further baseless insults::

(come on... I want to be cool like you guys and meet every unique thought with trolling. Someone take the time to type a rational thought so I can dismiss it.)

Here's a hint for actual trolling - if you're going to complain about insults and suggest people post rational thoughts, don't quote a post that contains no insults and some actual rational argument (which you ignored).

Points have been raised in this thread - don't claim persecution just so you can avoid answering them.

 

[[serious]]

The fact that you don't agree with newtonian math obviously shows you don't understand it.



People like you renew my faith in euthanasia. ::further baseless insults::

(come on... I want to be cool like you guys and meet every unique thought with trolling. Someone take the time to type a rational thought so I can dismiss it.)

Hey, no reason to get all snippy. I'm blaming the youtube video. (I'm guessing I even know exactly which one).

As far as "Newtonian math", are you talking about his work on calculus? binomials? His method of finding roots? I'm not sure how it would apply. If anything I'd reference euclidian geometry, though it wouldn't quite fit either.

 

[Doveaman]

if spacetime's curviture is what brings us back to the ground when we jump up... why do we stand up straight through this curved space time? Obviously einstein did not understand that gravity is a force

According to Einstein's theory we should be standing on our faces.

 

[PhilosophicalBluster]

According to Einstein's theory we should be standing on our faces.

I hope you are joking.

 

[The Gregorian]

Here's a hint for actual trolling - if you're going to complain about insults and suggest people post rational thoughts, don't quote a post that contains no insults and some actual rational argument (which you ignored).

Points have been raised in this thread - don't claim persecution just so you can avoid answering them.

Exactly. That's what's cool, right? Any time someone makes a valid point contrary to your own, you just ignore the point entirely, and insult their intelligence for disagreeing with you.

 

[LifeToTheFullest!]

Exactly. That's what's cool, right? Any time someone makes a valid point contrary to your own, you just ignore the point entirely, and insult their intelligence for disagreeing with you.

Do you actually think you made a valid point? Really?

Einstein's theories have been verified over the decades as technologies catch up, Nobel prizes awarded, and Ph.D.s' granted, and you somehow think thousands of cosmologists, theoretical physicists, mathematicians and other corollary fields of science have all been wrong... for decades...really.

What's more, you haven't proposed an alternative equation or theory, and you wonder why you are suspected of trolling.

 

[SimplyNothing]

Do you actually think you made a valid point? Really?

Einstein's theories have been verified over the decades as technologies catch up, Nobel prizes awarded, and Ph.D.s' granted, and you somehow think thousands of cosmologists, theoretical physicists, mathematicians and other corollary fields of science have all been wrong... for decades...really.

What's more, you haven't proposed an alternative equation or theory, and you wonder why you are suspected of trolling.

It's gravitons. Gravitons my boy, you wait... I'll find 'em.

 

[Wiccan_Child]

I have an idea for an experiment, but I'd rather not derail the other thread, so we'll try it here.

We've known gravity to exist for thousands of years. It's as undeniable as... gravity. Yet, general relativity suggests that there is no "force" of gravity... instead, celestial bodies move straight through the curved space/time created around another massive body. This way, light may be affected by gravity, without gravity being faster than light.

Light is affected only insofar as the path it follows is bent. The particle itself has no idea that space is curved.

So, if spacetime's curviture is what brings us back to the ground when we jump up... why do we stand up straight through this curved space time?

If spacetime is curved, how would we be able to tell the difference in our local world? The curvature from our our legs to our head is very small, much as the curvature of the Earth appears zero to us. Moreover, the gravitational pull of the Earth pulls us downwards: there's a slight

Obviously einstein did not understand that gravity is a force.

It's been understood as a force since the time of Newton. Einstein just explained how it works.

At this point, it's the standard among the scientific community. Why do some people not understand that gravity is a force rather than a static spacial/temporal distortion? Do scientists today simply not understand the math?

The mathematics is complicated, but that's why we have a fleet of physicists to do it for us. Biochemistry is hard, but we have a fleet of biochemists to do that for us as well.

Obviously, not every scientist is completely clued up about every facet within the sphere of human knowledge. It's extelligence, not intelligence.

 

[SimplyNothing]

If spacetime is curved, how would we be able to tell the difference in our local world?

Ummm quick question here actually. Been wondering this about relativity for a little while so... might as well.

So mass bends spacetime, creating curvature, and therefore the force of gravity. Newtonian mechanics says every action has an equal or opposite reaction.

So if mass bends spacetime, wouldn't something straighten it out again? What keeps it bent? Is gravity the opposite reaction of mass bending spacetime?

 

[LifeToTheFullest!]

Mass, or lack of mass "straighens" it out again.

 

[Wiccan_Child]

Ummm quick question here actually. Been wondering this about relativity for a little while so... might as well.

So mass bends spacetime, creating curvature, and therefore the force of gravity. Newtonian mechanics says every action has an equal or opposite reaction.

So if mass bends spacetime, wouldn't something straighten it out again? What keeps it bent? Is gravity the opposite reaction of mass bending spacetime?

You should take Newton's Laws with a pinch of salt. That said, the 'opposite reaction' could be the very bending of spacetime itself. For every action (a mass moving through space), there is an equal and opposite reaction (the space in front of its movement bends towards it, like iron filings towards a magnet as the magnet moves towards them).

A rough analogy, but it does the trick .

Anyway, it's kept bent for the same reason a car on the drive stays on the ground forever more: it's reached equilibrium.

 

[SimplyNothing]

Yeah see that makes way more sense to me now. I was looking at it from a wonky perspective there.

 

[The Gregorian]

Do you actually think you made a valid point? Really?

Strawman.