Relative Slavery

[bricklayer]

There are those who will never feel as though they have enough simply because others will always have more.

I cannot think of a fate more ironic than to be in the land of plenty yet infested with envy, rendered a ravenous pit full of frustration and angst.

 

[A Is A]

I am content, if not with a little wanderlust. Most of the people I know are content. And what does that have to do with the current discussion in this thread, wise sage?

 

[Hans Talhoffer]

Apart from being condescending, to say the least, your ageism here is worthy of reprimand. You assume that someone who is young is naturally inclined to hold particular views, and that by your age, every 'normal' person will have adjusted accordingly and accepted your supposed wisdom. I say that this very assumption shows a lack of wisdom on your part. In a discussion, such as this one, age does not matter. It is the argument alone that is important - its validity, its soundness, its cogency. Youth does not excuse us from making a bad argument anymore than older age excuses you for ignoring good arguments made by persons younger than yourself.

This coming from a 19 year old LOL

 

[Archaeopteryx]

This coming from a 19 year old LOL

Your point being what exactly? That no-one under your age (whatever that may be; you don't display it on your profile) is capable of making a cogent argument? As I said before, youth does not excuse me from making a bad argument anymore than older age excuses you for ignoring good arguments made by persons younger then yourself. A discussion on topics such as this is about arguments, not the relative ages of participants. I suspect that those who needlessly fixate on the ages of fellow posters do so to compensate for their own abject lack of good arguments.

 

[bricklayer]

Let me tell you young men a story.

A young Marine looked over the front ramp of the landing craft, as it took him to the beach. Still 200yds from shore, he could see men cowering 200yrs further up the beach, with their backs to the emeny, up against a 3' high breakwall. He was discusted by what he saw. They were cowards, he thought. "Look at those old fools, I'll show them."

The ramp went down, and along with his platoon, he charged out running high and screeming loud. As he was repeatedly splattered with blood and knocked to the ground, he could see his fellows dying all around him. Each time he was knocked down, he would rise the less when he continued forward. One of the few in his platoon to make it this far, he crawled the last fifty feet on his bloody face in the sand, begging God for mercy.

He reached the wall and sat as he turned just in time to see the ramps go down on the next wave of landings. As the fresh fodder came out running high and screeming loud, he thought, "look at those young fools, someone needs to warn them."

If you make it to "the wall", the scramble up the beach will change you,
or it will kill you.
Life is not unlike that story, it has a way of changing men.
Life's a beach.


A more direct answer to you query:
All reasoning is presuppositional.
The errors of youth are not necessarily logical errors but a lack of context, a narrowness of perspective and a poverty of experience.

I once asked my grandson what he was learning in school. "Counting", he said. "How high can you count?", I asked. He looked at me like I was stupid and said, "all the way". "All the way to what?" I pressed on. "All the way to a hundred, Papa. All the way to a hundred."
He had no idea that there was so much more. He was young, and so are you. There is so much more to the workings of society than a twenty something can even begin to imagin.

 

[A Is A]

Old people can be stupid. Young people can be stupid. Age has little effect on intelligence.

Look at politicians.

 

[allhart]

The mind of man is delusional and it takes one to know how to physio analysis (from within) his or hers perception and perspectives. Can a person know he is insane? How can anyone enlighten the insane? Can you rationalize with a drunk?
People can acknowledge something but to truly to understanding it they have had, to of lived it. People want to be king of their world (Control) even if that means believing in their own lies. When have you learned the most in your life? For me it has been at my most lowest places in life! Its gave me a reality check! Suffering can be our greatest equalizer and teacher. Especially for those who are stubbornly saying "I did it my way".

Evil is a form of insanity and there are varied degrees which all of man kind lives. Further exploiting that notion no one sees themselves as evil. By human nature they will try to deflect all responsibility. By showing or justifying to others in light of all the good they have done. People want to be free and be king of their world but ultimately enslave themselves to their addictions. Frankly all people worship something and mostly it is self. The oldest "Designer" religion is, Discovering self, exploring self, indulging self and defending self is, as always, the central preoccupation of man. This is where we derive our conflicts....... wars and rumor of wars! The war of idea starts in the mind of man.......meaning ideas and actions have consequences!

BTW for you Atheists one thing that sets us apart for other species is we own things!

 

[A Is A]

And what do you worship, but a god of your own making? For all your talk of the wickedness of man, did you not shape your god in your own image? Do you not picture him as a member of your race and nationality?

The myth of man being at heart wicked was just a petty attempt to control mankind by the kings and priests.

 

[DaisyDay]

Let me tell you young men a story.

A young Marine looked over the front ramp of the landing craft, as it took him to the beach. ***yada yada yada***
Life's a beach.

Life's a beach? I've heard it pronounced differently....

A more direct answer to you query:
All reasoning is presuppositional.
The errors of youth are not necessarily logical errors but a lack of context, a narrowness of perspective and a poverty of experience.

I once asked my grandson what he was learning in school. "Counting", he said. "How high can you count?", I asked. He looked at me like I was stupid and said, "all the way". "All the way to what?" I pressed on. "All the way to a hundred, Papa. All the way to a hundred."
He had no idea that there was so much more. He was young, and so are you. There is so much more to the workings of society than a twenty something can even begin to imagin.

That's such a crock and a cop-out. You may or may not have more experience than the guys you won't deign to converse with. You really don't know how much or how little experience of the world they have. Nor do any of us know that about you. It's been known to happen that some people misrepresent their age; others have several socks of varying ages.

Some people even as youngsters live with their eyes open and their minds questioning - they are well worth talking to. One of my favorite people was a kid I used to babysit - I knew him from when he was four until he was seven. That kid was so funny, so observant and so original in his viewpoint that he was a delight to talk to, young and inexperienced as he was.

The marine story sounds lifted from a Reader's Digest WWII homily. Are you claiming that experience as your own?

Are you really a grandfather or did you borrow that story from your own grandfather? Unless you started your family as a wee lad, you really don't come off as that old or that experienced. Your choice of words, grammar and references are not that of an old guy - usually .

I wonder where your age-snobbery comes from. Most the young guys here are pretty well educated - it that the problem? Are you insecure about that? You tend to speak well of yourself and dismissively of others - not the signs of a secure person.

The thing is that you rarely actually converse with anyone no matter what their age. Most your posts are simply platitudes and aphorisms repeated ad nauseum. Whenever anyone has tried to engage you on any of the points, you've declined.

Whatever the problem is, I hope you get over it.

 

[allhart]

And what do you worship, but a god of your own making? For all your talk of the wickedness of man, did you not shape your god in your own image? Do you not picture him as a member of your race and nationality?

The myth of man being at heart wicked was just a petty attempt to control mankind by the kings and priests.

Btw one thing that sets us apart from other species as human beings. We tend to own things or stuff. I am not in this for the argument sake, my friend, however; I point out, how can you know more about God than say a follower of Christ......? All this is about is, where the heart lies.(in how you chose to live) One difference between a non-believer and myself is, I know I can be evil and I seek to know my sinful ways. And I try to yoke myself to the likes of God, who is essences is love.

Furthermore you can't live life based on slogans The only control in life anyone has is in how one reacts to it. Just look at our newest growing institutions (PRISONS) for the mental, criminally insane and tell me how the root of man isn't evil, that morality isn't the issue? But in doing so or saying we all deserve to be in there in one-way or another and these people are somebody's brothers, fathers, mothers and sisters! Physiologically lost!

Why is it when people know right from wrong still are determined to do the wrong thing? The heart of mans wicked ways who can begin to understand it?

 

[DaisyDay]

The mind of man is delusional and it takes one to know how to physio analysis (from within)

Psychoanalyze?

his or hers perception and perspectives. Can a person know he is insane?

Yes, especially when he wasn't always.

How can anyone enlighten the insane?

Patience, talk, demonstrations, therapy - but the insane one must be open to it and willing to see.

Can you rationalize with a drunk?

Depends on the drunk, but yeah.

BTW for you Atheists one thing that sets us apart for other species is we own things!

One Christmas, my brother and his dog were visiting my parents and their dog. Each dog definitely owned his toys; they both knew what was whose.

 

[DaisyDay]

The myth of man being at heart wicked was just a petty attempt to control mankind by the kings and priests.

Petty? Are you kidding? It was grand!

And it works.

 

[rambot]

A more direct answer to you query:
All reasoning is presuppositional.
The errors of youth are not necessarily logical errors but a lack of context, a narrowness of perspective and a poverty of experience.

I once asked my grandson what he was learning in school. "Counting", he said. "How high can you count?", I asked. He looked at me like I was stupid and said, "all the way". "All the way to what?" I pressed on. "All the way to a hundred, Papa. All the way to a hundred."
He had no idea that there was so much more. He was young, and so are you. There is so much more to the workings of society than a twenty something can even begin to imagin.

Life does NOT presuppose a full knowledge of all contexts.
If I want to learn about the poor people of India, I'd be more inclined to listen to an employee of an NGO whose worked there for 5 years than an old man who has studied them half a world away for twice as long.

This "poverty of experience" has nothing to do with the accumulation of time on this earth and EVERYTHING to do with how you invest your time upon it.

 

[Received]

Being poor is the choice of sinners.

If they want to stop being poor, they need to stop with their criminal adictions, come to christ, get educated and get a job. Its not that hard people.

Did you make this statement in sobriety, or without the least bit of resentment or frustration?

Because if you did.

Well.

 

[Received]

Do you see the difference? What I posted could be used at bible study, what you posted belongs at a political rally.

You seem to fallaciously believe that the Bible is meant to be applied to church and church-related stuff, rather than pervade the secular sphere.

 

[DaisyDay]

Did you make this statement in sobriety, or without the least bit of resentment or frustration?

Because if you did.

Well.

I wouldn't take Hans' posts at face value.

 

[Archaeopteryx]

A more direct answer to you query:
All reasoning is presuppositional.
The errors of youth are not necessarily logical errors but a lack of context, a narrowness of perspective and a poverty of experience.

None of this justifies your ageism in the slightest. A discussion or debate of this nature revolves around arguments. The age of the participants is unimportant to the argument. Frequently, when faced with a counter-argument from a young person, instead of addressing their counter-argument (which you should do in a debate of this kind) you address something irrelevant, like their age. What if I were to do that to you? What if you were to deliver a very good argument, and instead of addressing its premises I claimed that old age was catching up to you, that your nervous system was gradually slowing down, that you were becoming slightly forgetful, and that you were wrong for no other reason than that? Please respect the dignity of members on this board by addressing the argument and leaving irrelevant details outside the discourse.

 

[acropolis]

You know what is total nonsense? Child neglect laws. It is simply criminal that the government be allowed to punish parents who didn't actually do anything wrong! If they shake a baby to death, OK that's obviously an act of violence, but just letting the baby starve isn't actually doing anything at all so what is the big deal?

 

[MarkSB]

Apart from being condescending, to say the least, your ageism here is worthy of reprimand. You assume that someone who is young is naturally inclined to hold particular views, and that by your age, every 'normal' person will have adjusted accordingly and accepted your supposed wisdom. I say that this very assumption shows a lack of wisdom on your part. In a discussion, such as this one, age does not matter. It is the argument alone that is important - its validity, its soundness, its cogency. Youth does not excuse us from making a bad argument anymore than older age excuses you for ignoring good arguments made by persons younger than yourself.

This coming from a 19 year old LOL
​

A post like that coming from a 19 year old is more of a credit to him than it is a discredit.

​

 

[MarkSB]

I think what most people find offensive in the OP is the "I'm Godly, you're not" attitude.

Perhaps a lot of people do, but the OP contends that all people who advocate government welfare are envious of him and trying to take what he has. Besides being pretty puffed up about his lot in life, he fails to understand that well-off people also sincerely think the government has a better ability do deal with large scale need efficiently and do not grudge the taxes we pay that does benefit those less well-off than ourselves.

Yeah, probably because of his holier than thou attitude. Most people will never respond well to that.

He goes further than that - he impugns people's motives for using the government to clothe the naked, feed the hungry, house the homeless and educate the ignorant - he says we do it out of envy of people like him - which just isn't true and doesn't make sense.

Thanks for the reply aisy_Day. I guess I expected my post to be judged purely on what I wrote, but I see I must have stepped into a whole other argument. What I was trying to say, is that the O.P. (that is, the first post in the thread) is scripturally sound or has scriptural backing. As to the attitude of the poster, well that's a different matter.