Relationship between a believer and non believer ?!?

[Pebeto]

I am an Atheist and I met some times ago a woman who I would say is passionately Christian. We have developed very strong feelings towards each other. But she says that she cannot consider a relationship with me because I am not Christian. I actually have no intention to argue with her and try to change her mind and I am sadly respecting her choice. But I am really committed to understand her choice through the Scriptures. I read and (modestly) study the bible to find some answers and I would to invite you to help me understand or at least give me some insights. Again, I would like to understand through the Scriptures and I am using the KJB version below for my citations.

First, it does not seem to me that in the bible, the concept of a marriage between a believer and a nonbeliever is ruled out. This possibility exists.

1 Corinthians 7:12-13

12 But to the rest speak I, not the Lord: If any brother hath a wife that believeth not, and she be pleased to dwell with him, let him not put her away .
13 And the woman which hath an husband that believeth not, and if he be pleased to dwell with her, let her not leave him.
But at the same time, it does not seem to be recommended

2 Corinthians 6:14

14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?
However, the nonbeliever may be changed, but I understand that might be a burden for the believer to live with this hope, a burden that he might not accept to take on,

1 Peter 3:1-2

1 Likewise, ye wives, be in subjection to your own husbands; that, if any obey not the word, they also may without the word be won by the conversation of the wives;
2 While they behold your chaste conversation coupled with fear.


Second, I understand that marriage is a sacred vow and there are many verses related to it as well as the role of the husband and the wife. I have not read anything that I am not ready to commit to with all my heart. Of course, as a nonbeliever, the only thing I would not be able to provide is spiritual guidance but maybe the more fundamental problem is that as a nonbeliever, I cannot have Christ as role model and therefore any vow I could commit to would have no value?

Ephesians 5:24-25

24 Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing.
25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;

Finally, believers and nonbelievers have not been given the same heart? And is it naive to think that love is what is the drive?

1 Corinthians 13:1-13

1 Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.
2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.
3 And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing.
4 Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up,
5 Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil;
6 Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth;
7 Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things.
8 Charity never faileth: but whetherthere beprophecies, they shall fail; whetherthere betongues, they shall cease; whetherthere beknowledge, it shall vanish away.
9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.
10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.
11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.
12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.
13 And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity

Thank you

 

[JGG]

I'm sorry. Take comfort in the fact that you're better off. Trust me, you don't want any relationship with any Christian. Just stay away.

 

[annafullofgrace]

I'm not sure what your specific questions are, but I will try and answer from what I've seen with friends. I have some friends in some unequally yoked relationships and marriages and some are strained because of it and some make it work. I suppose it depends on how much each party is willing to compromise. My closest friends husband is an atheist, but he respects her beliefs and even goes to church with her and their children. The children are aware that daddy is a non-believer and that mommy is...it doesn't seem to be confusing for them. The couples that I know that are strained seem to not agree or meet halfway on any subject. I do think those issues lie much deeper than religious or non-religious beliefs tho...so perhaps their situation is irrelevant.

 

[faroukfarouk]

Amos 3.3: "Can two walk together, except they be agreed?"

 

[Ellwood3]

A Christian marriage is a covenant between a man, a woman and God. The commitment the man and woman make is to God. An unbeliever can’t make that commitment. For someone who has a passionate love for God, to go through life without a spiritual friend in their choice of husband or wife would be terribly lonely.


Believing married couples can pray together, each helping the other to grow. They can walk together on the same spiritual journey. To be without that would be a barren marriage.



You can’t make yourself believe what you don’t. You can seek, actively, and pray asking God’s help. But for a Christian, God is the one who is best at choosing who marries whom.

 

[2B4gotN]

As a non-Christian you could not be the spiritual head of the family that your girlfriend would deserve if she were to ever marry you. There are reasons why the scriptures caution Christians concerning being yoked in marriage to non-Christians and one reason is because it is all too easy for the Christian to begin straying from the faith. That is HUGE. A Christian would not want that to happen for the sake of love because the love for God goes deeper.

 

[TheyCallMeDavid]

I am an Atheist and I met some times ago a woman who I would say is passionately Christian. We have developed very strong feelings towards each other. But she says that she cannot consider a relationship with me because I am not Christian. I actually have no intention to argue with her and try to change her mind and I am sadly respecting her choice. But I am really committed to understand her choice through the Scriptures. I read and (modestly) study the bible to find some answers and I would to invite you to help me understand or at least give me some insights. Again, I would like to understand through the Scriptures and I am using the KJB version below for my citations.

First, it does not seem to me that in the bible, the concept of a marriage between a believer and a nonbeliever is ruled out. This possibility exists.

1 Corinthians 7:12-13

12 But to the rest speak I, not the Lord: If any brother hath a wife that believeth not, and she be pleased to dwell with him, let him not put her away .
13 And the woman which hath an husband that believeth not, and if he be pleased to dwell with her, let her not leave him.
But at the same time, it does not seem to be recommended

2 Corinthians 6:14

14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?
However, the nonbeliever may be changed, but I understand that might be a burden for the believer to live with this hope, a burden that he might not accept to take on,

1 Peter 3:1-2

1 Likewise, ye wives, be in subjection to your own husbands; that, if any obey not the word, they also may without the word be won by the conversation of the wives;
2 While they behold your chaste conversation coupled with fear.


Second, I understand that marriage is a sacred vow and there are many verses related to it as well as the role of the husband and the wife. I have not read anything that I am not ready to commit to with all my heart. Of course, as a nonbeliever, the only thing I would not be able to provide is spiritual guidance but maybe the more fundamental problem is that as a nonbeliever, I cannot have Christ as role model and therefore any vow I could commit to would have no value?

Ephesians 5:24-25

24 Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing.
25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;

Finally, believers and nonbelievers have not been given the same heart? And is it naive to think that love is what is the drive?

1 Corinthians 13:1-13

1 Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.
2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.
3 And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing.
4 Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up,
5 Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil;
6 Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth;
7 Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things.
8 Charity never faileth: but whetherthere beprophecies, they shall fail; whetherthere betongues, they shall cease; whetherthere beknowledge, it shall vanish away.
9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.
10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.
11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.
12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.
13 And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity

Thank you

I regret to say, that she is NOT that passionate about her Christian Walk. If she is a professed Follower of Christ and his Word, The Bible, then she would not have even entertained becoming romantically involved with an Atheist . The Bible explicitly says NOT to do this because God wont and cant bless it, it is a violation against Gods loving moral protective mandates , and such a union will only cause great dissension and stress on the relationship given time. You each should go your separate ways but maintain a platonic friendship if you desire. If you want a list of huge differences between you and her, please ask and ill give you some and ill do it from a worldview / sociological standpoint so you can see how drastically the gulf -divide is between two such people.

 

[bhsmte]

I'm sorry. Take comfort in the fact that you're better off. Trust me, you don't want any relationship with any Christian. Just stay away.

I wouldn't say this.

Fundamentalist Christians and an atheist would be a near impossibility, but many Christians can look at the person, as opposed to the persons religious beliefs or lack of belief and not have it be a problem.

 

[TheyCallMeDavid]

I wouldn't say this.

Fundamentalist Christians and an atheist would be a near impossibility, but many Christians can look at the person, as opposed to the persons religious beliefs or lack of belief and not have it be a problem.

There is something drastically wrong with a genuine Christian who chooses to enter into a romantic relationship with a professed 'Atheist' that finds a need to proclaim that everyone (including both of them) were simply the product of a piece of pond scum that popped into existence from dead chemicals thereby having the same intrinsic worth and dignity as an Earthworm. If THAT isn't a problem for the Christian, then the Person should be held suspect of being a real Christian .

Atheists and Christians have absolutely no justification in being together ; not even love is enough justification because foundationally they are polar opposites .

 

[bhsmte]

There is something drastically wrong with a genuine Christian who chooses to enter into a romantic relationship with a professed 'Atheist' that finds a need to proclaim that everyone (including both of them) were simply the product of a piece of pond scum that popped into existence from dead chemicals thereby having the same intrinsic worth and dignity as an Earthworm. If THAT isn't a problem for the Christian, then the Person should be held suspect of being a real Christian .

Atheists and Christians have absolutely no justification in being together ; not even love is enough justification because foundationally they are polar opposites .

It is drastically wrong to you david, doesn't mean it is wrong for everybody.

And sorry, you don't get to determine who is a genuine Christian.

 

[Dari0]

speaks for itself in Gods word, we can't be unequally yoked

 

[TheyCallMeDavid]

It is drastically wrong to you david, doesn't mean it is wrong for everybody.

And sorry, you don't get to determine who is a genuine Christian.

What constitutes a genuine Christian from an objective absolute perspective is what the Bible declares. The Bible is the Christians Source for what IS .

Therefore , to every genuine Christian that has been Born Anew in Christ , it is absolutely wrong to intertwine Ones life with that of an Unbeliever because the Bible says so and for very sound reasons. I am not the Standard, I never said I was , and something is drastically wrong because the Author of right and wrong declared such things so . Not Humans including myself or you.

You wouldn't want your 16 year old precious Daughter dating a genuine Christian because you want her to stay committed to atheism, right ? Well, the Creator doesn't want a devoted Child of His dating someone who is committed to the defamation/rejection of God.

 

[parsley]

it does not seem to me that in the bible, the concept of a marriage between a believer and a nonbeliever is ruled out. This possibility exists.

People speak of the Bible as one whole book, but in reality it used to exist as many separate writings, which were later compiled. (See canonization.)

The letters of Paul were written with the intention of advice to the churches -- most often help for leaders to manage problems that came up, but also for Jews to figure out how to incorporate the influx of Gentiles and regional customs where Greco-Roman deities were worshiped.

A verse like "do not be unequally yoked," IMO was intended as sage advice from people who saw how couples were pulled apart by disagreements. Any person who puts faith at the core of their beings, will use it as a premise for everything they do. This can cause misunderstandings, conflicting priorities... people can also miss out on the joys of praying together.

It sounds like your friend has taken this verse with a more regimented value, as many people do.

In some partnerships it's like saying, "Don't fall for an obsessed gamer" or self-employed who commits all to the biz, or a gambler who sacrifices income for potential gain, or a workaholic, or a cat-collector. Each partner needs to deal with conflicting priorities, and no one ends up comfortable with life.

as a nonbeliever, I cannot have Christ as role model and therefore any vow I could commit to would have no value?

Lots of people of other faiths still consider Jesus a role model -- a healer, a counselor, wise philosopher, spiritual motivator, pacifist and yet blunt and not afraid to confront.

As for partnerships, he was willing to set aside his personal goals in order to care for others. He performed miracles out of compassion. He didn't push people away so He could get ahead in His career or wealth accumulation. He laid down His life willingly for people that weren't loyal to Him.

So the model is simple --put others' needs before your own. In an ideal partnership, the return will still pay off.

I think in that verse it is offering the balance needed: if one person coordinates, the other must be equally respected. If a woman sets aside a year of her life to bear the partner's child, and more to raise a toddler, she should not be treated as though it was her fault, or as though she is weak because she couldn't lift construction beams while she was pregnant.

The leadership statement was not about deserving or prowess, but about both people working for the same things -- like believers want God's kingdom carried out here on earth.

 

[Abandoned Barns]

I think when we are younger we believe that marriage is like two people loving each other so much that they choose to spend the rest of their lives in the same boat; them against the world! When you're young, you believe that it's possible to know where you'll be along this journey of life five years from now, twenty, fifty... The truth is that none of us can ever really know. The person I am today is entirely different than both the person who I was and the person who I thought I'd be when I was twenty. So how do you ever know that you can "love" someone for the rest of your life, as husbands are instructed to do in the bible? Your wife is on her own journey. Will have her own struggles and undergo her own changes in her own timing. What if the person she is 20 years from now, is not the same person she is today? What if you're not capable of loving the person she becomes? Is it then okay to break your vow?

To a Christian, marriage is not like two people in the same boat, struggling against the world together. It's rather more like two people in their own boats, lost at sea on a stormy night, struggling desperately to find one and other. The look for each other, but the fog is to thick to see; call to each other, but the din of the storm to loud to hear; they each row their boats frantically hoping to cross paths, but don't even know if they are moving toward or away from each other. The lightning flashes and you think you catch a glimpse of her; "Is that her? She seems so far.", you think, but row in that direction anyway. She is gone.

Then, through the fog, you see a light from a distant lighthouse, dim and distant at first, but steady, immovable. It had seemed as if the light was spinning around you before you realized that it was actually your own boat spinning aimlessly at sea. You resolve that no matter what, no matter how bad the storm, no matter how rough the waves, no matter how hard the wind attempts to push you backward, no matter how frightening the journey becomes, that you will continue to row your boat toward the light and you know, know in your heart, that no matter what, your wife will always choose do the same. You see in this way it doesn't matter how far apart your boats have become, as long as you each move toward the light you're also moving toward each other.

God is the third person in every Christian marriage. He is the fixed, immovable point toward which you always know the other is moving. Without him there cannot be trust, not real trust anyway. Not to a Christian. My friend, without that, I'm not sure that any of us could advise you to enter into a lifelong commitment. It's really not fair to either of you. Because even if you both can remain tolerant, even respectful of each other's faith systems, what happens eight years from now when you become friends at work with that girl who thinks just like you do and it's "just so nice to not have to constantly be on your guard against saying something offensive", or she becomes friends at church with a newly saved Christian, on fire for God, and fully understanding why she chooses to devotes every Wednesday night at bible study, Saturday afternoon at her Women's group and Sunday morning for Sunday school and worship and it would "just be so nice to not sit alone in church" or even once not have one of the old ladies not ask if "the Lord has chosen to soften your husband's heart" yet? Just as we, as men, are instructed to always love our wives, our wives are instructed to to always "respect" us. The way they are able to respect us for our entire married lives, is that we choose freely to align ourselves beneath Jesus Christ. Not one of us (we as Christians believe) are deserving as husbands of that respect in any other way.

So I got to be square with you Bo; what you're asking to sign up for is a lifelong commitment to someone who will not be able to ever fully trust you and will, by definition, not respect you. She will always feel as though she has compromised her faith in order to be with you and expect that your love serve as an acceptable replacement for it. When she realizes that, to a Christian, there is no acceptable replacement for that intimacy with God she will begin to resent you. She herself may fall away from God and the light you see inside her, that thing you really love, turn to bitterness. And while all of this is happening she's going to become less and less cute than she is now. Of course, there is a chance that she will be used to show you the light, but if you care for this woman, can you honestly say that you'd risk all that against the likelihood of you not changing your mind? I'll shoot with you straight, and I realize that I don't know either of you, but it feels like kind of a selfish and dishonest way to start off a relationship, for both of you.

It's just my two cents and I hope I haven't given you offense, but I can't see anybody wanting a life like that. Because as strong as your feelings are for this young woman, and hers for you, it's not love, not real love, not sitting on a park bench, in matching jogging suits, feeding each other in fifty years love. Not loving them when they have alzheimer's and can't remember who you are, indeed even hate you, love. Not forgiving an affair love. To a Christian, that's the sort of love were required to have for our wives. Exactly that level of selflessness and willingness to put their needs above our own needs, our own wishes and our own pride. And we are able to do this only with the help of Jesus Christ. I couldn't even imagine attempting to do so without it.

 

[Ellwood3]

I am an Atheist and I met some times ago a woman who I would say is passionately Christian. We have developed very strong feelings towards each other. But she says that she cannot consider a relationship with me because I am not Christian. I actually have no intention to argue with her and try to change her mind and I am sadly respecting her choice. But I am really committed to understand her choice through the Scriptures. I read and (modestly) study the bible to find some answers and I would to invite you to help me understand or at least give me some insights. Again, I would like to understand through the Scriptures and I am using the KJB version below for my citations.

First, it does not seem to me that in the bible, the concept of a marriage between a believer and a nonbeliever is ruled out. This possibility exists.

1 Corinthians 7:12-13

12 But to the rest speak I, not the Lord: If any brother hath a wife that believeth not, and she be pleased to dwell with him, let him not put her away .
13 And the woman which hath an husband that believeth not, and if he be pleased to dwell with her, let her not leave him.
But at the same time, it does not seem to be recommended

2 Corinthians 6:14

14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?
However, the nonbeliever may be changed, but I understand that might be a burden for the believer to live with this hope, a burden that he might not accept to take on,

1 Peter 3:1-2

1 Likewise, ye wives, be in subjection to your own husbands; that, if any obey not the word, they also may without the word be won by the conversation of the wives;
2 While they behold your chaste conversation coupled with fear.


Second, I understand that marriage is a sacred vow and there are many verses related to it as well as the role of the husband and the wife. I have not read anything that I am not ready to commit to with all my heart. Of course, as a nonbeliever, the only thing I would not be able to provide is spiritual guidance but maybe the more fundamental problem is that as a nonbeliever, I cannot have Christ as role model and therefore any vow I could commit to would have no value?

Ephesians 5:24-25

24 Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing.
25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;

Finally, believers and nonbelievers have not been given the same heart? And is it naive to think that love is what is the drive?

1 Corinthians 13:1-13

1 Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.
2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.
3 And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing.
4 Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up,
5 Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil;
6 Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth;
7 Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things.
8 Charity never faileth: but whetherthere beprophecies, they shall fail; whetherthere betongues, they shall cease; whetherthere beknowledge, it shall vanish away.
9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.
10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.
11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.
12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.
13 And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity

Thank you

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Pebeto,[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]I didn’t mention the scriptures you asked about in your post, and will do so now. I will break this up into more than one post instead of one very long one. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]The verse that seems most hopeful is [/FONT][FONT=&quot]1 Corinthians 7:12-13[/FONT][FONT=&quot]. Starting back a little further it says:

[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]1 Cor 7:10-16 : 1 Corinthians 7:10 Context: But to the married I command--not I, but the Lord--that the wife not leave her husband[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]10[/FONT][FONT=&quot] To the married I give this charge (not I, but the Lord): the wife should not separate from her husband
11 (but if she does, she should remain unmarried or else be reconciled to her husband), and the husband should not divorce his wife.
12 To the rest I say (I, not the Lord) that if any brother has a wife who is an unbeliever, and she consents to live with him, he should not divorce her.
13 If any woman has a husband who is an unbeliever, and he consents to live with her, she should not divorce him.
14 For the unbelieving husband is made holy because of his wife, and the unbelieving wife is made holy because of her husband. Otherwise your children would be unclean, but as it is, they are holy.
15 But if the unbelieving partner separates, let it be so. In such cases the brother or sister is not enslaved. God has called you to peace.
16 For how do you know, wife, whether you will save your husband? Or how do you know, husband, whether you will save your wife? [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]The operative word in “if any brother has (or “hath,” in the version you chose) a wife who is an unbeliever ….” and “if any woman has (hath) a husband who is an unbeliever ….”[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]The passage is talking about two people who are already married. He (Paul) wrote this first letter to the church at Corinth. This was a church in a difficult culture, full of new believers and troubles. They had believers who were married, but their spouse had not become a believer. What should they do? Should they divorce? Paul’s answer was no, if the unbeliever was willing to stay in the marriage with the convert. If the unbeliever chose to leave, however, they were to separate. If they chose to stay, perhaps the unbeliever would be converted in due time.
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]The passage is not speaking about unmarried people who are considering marriage when one is a believer, and the other is not. Throughout the Bible, marriage between those “unequally yoked” is not suggested. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]This is the next passage you mentioned:[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]2 Corinthians 6:14[/FONT][FONT=&quot] (again, I’m taking a broader passage to gain some additional context):
2 Cor. 6:14-18 : 2 Corinthians 6:14 Context: Don't be unequally yoked with unbelievers, for what fellowship have righteousness and iniquity? Or what fellowship has light with darkness?[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
Do not be unequally yoked with unbelievers. For what partnership has righteousness with lawlessness? Or what fellowship has light with darkness?
15 What accord has Christ with Belial? Or what portion does a believer share with an unbeliever?
16 What agreement has the temple of God with idols? For we are the temple of the living God; as God said, “I will make my dwelling among them and walk among them, and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
17 Therefore go out from their midst, and be separate from them, says the Lord, and touch no unclean thing; then I will welcome you,
18 and I will be a father to you, and you shall be sons and daughters to me, says the Lord Almighty.” [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]In Paul’s second letter (at least, the second one that we have) he is again calling them to come out from their culture and to offer their purity to God. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]You said: “However, the nonbeliever may be changed, but I understand that might be a burden for the believer to live with this hope, a burden that he might not accept to take on,”[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]True. But it is also a burden to the unbeliever. Imagine being married to someone who is longing for your conversion. That can also become burdensome.[/FONT]

 

[Ellwood3]

[FONT=&quot]Some more passages: [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
1 Peter 3:1-2 : 1 Peter 3:1 Context: In the same way, wives, be in subjection to your own husbands; so that, even if any don't obey the Word, they may be won by the behavior of their wives without a word;

Likewise, wives, be subject to your own husbands, so that even if some do not obey the word, they may be won without a word by the conduct of their wives,
[/FONT][FONT=&quot]2[/FONT][FONT=&quot] when they see your respectful and pure conduct.
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]You said:

Second, I understand that marriage is a sacred vow and there are many verses related to it as well as the role of the husband and the wife. I have not read anything that I am not ready to commit to with all my heart. Of course, as a nonbeliever, the only thing I would not be able to provide is spiritual guidance but maybe the more fundamental problem is that as a nonbeliever, I cannot have Christ as role model and therefore any vow I could commit to would have no value?

[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]As the next passage (Ephesians 5:24-25) you chose mentions—the problem is bigger than not having Christ as a role model or vows having no value. I’m taking a bigger section again:[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Ephesians: 5:22-33 : Ephesians 5:22 Context: Wives, be subject to your own husbands, as to the Lord.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]22[/FONT][FONT=&quot] Wives, submit to your own husbands, as to the Lord.
[/FONT][FONT=&quot]23[/FONT][FONT=&quot] For the husband is the head of the wife even as Christ is the head of the church, his body, and is himself its Savior.
[/FONT][FONT=&quot]24[/FONT][FONT=&quot] Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit in everything to their husbands.
[/FONT][FONT=&quot]25[/FONT][FONT=&quot] Husbands, love your wives, as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her,
[/FONT][FONT=&quot]26[/FONT][FONT=&quot] that he might sanctify her, having cleansed her by the washing of water with the word,
[/FONT][FONT=&quot]27[/FONT][FONT=&quot] so that he might present the church to himself in splendor, without spot or wrinkle or any such thing, that she might be holy and without blemish.
[/FONT][FONT=&quot]28[/FONT][FONT=&quot] In the same way husbands should love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself.
[/FONT][FONT=&quot]29[/FONT][FONT=&quot] For no one ever hated his own flesh, but nourishes and cherishes it, just as Christ does the church,
[/FONT][FONT=&quot]30[/FONT][FONT=&quot] because we are members of his body.
[/FONT][FONT=&quot]31[/FONT][FONT=&quot] “Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and hold fast to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh.”
[/FONT][FONT=&quot]32[/FONT][FONT=&quot] This mystery is profound, and I am saying that it refers to Christ and the church.
[/FONT][FONT=&quot]33[/FONT][FONT=&quot] However, let each one of you love his wife as himself, and let the wife see that she respects her husband. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]It isn’t simply that Christ is the Christian man’s role model. Christ is God, and a human can’t be God. No matter how he tries. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Instead the idea is for the husband to be a conduit through whom Christ loves this woman, the husband is to be Christ, to show Christ to his wife. To love her as Christ does (which is humanly impossible—it requires God—the Holy Spirit—to be in the action).
[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Each spouse lives out the Gospel and helps on the Christian journey.
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]You said: Finally, believers and nonbelievers have not been given the same heart? And is it naive to think that love is what is the drive?

[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Believers and nonbelievers have the same kind of human heart. The Christian marriage, though is meant to circumvent the limitations all humans have. That takes an unearthly love. There is more than love or an affinity for someone at stake. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Think about the believer who marries an unbeliever. What happens with the children? The believer’s dearest longing will likely be for the children to take up faith—yet here is their other parent disbelieving in even the existence of their God. How does the believer feel in time when children leave or never have any faith? Will the marriage sour? In a sense, it always was sour, though that may be difficult to hear. (Or what would it be like to have children and a spouse who are passionate about their faith and to always be the outsider?)[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Next you quote the “Love Chapter:”[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]1 Corinthians 13:1-13 : 1 Corinthians 13:1 Context: If I speak with the languages of men and of angels, but don't have love, I have become sounding brass, or a clanging cymbal.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]The YouVersion: https://www.bible.com/bible/1/1co.13.kjv [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][/FONT]
1 If I were to speak in the language of men, or of Angels, yet not have charity, I would be like a clanging bell or a crashing cymbal.
2 And if I have prophecy, and learn every mystery, and obtain all knowledge, and possess all faith, so that I could move mountains, yet not have charity, then I am nothing.
3 And if I distribute all my goods in order to feed the poor, and if I hand over my body to be burned, yet not have charity, it offers me nothing.
4 Charity is patient, is kind. Charity does not envy, does not act wrongly, is not inflated.
5 Charity is not ambitious, does not seek for itself, is not provoked to anger, devises no evil.
6 Charity does not rejoice over iniquity, but rejoices in truth.
7 Charity suffers all, believes all, hopes all, endures all.
8 Charity is never torn away, even if prophecies pass away, or languages cease, or knowledge is destroyed.
9 For we know only in part, and we prophesy only in part.
10 But when the perfect arrives, the imperfect passes away.
11 When I was a child, I spoke like a child, I understood like a child, I thought like a child. But when I became a man, I put aside the things of a child.
12 Now we see through a glass darkly. But then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part, but then I shall know, even as I am known.
13 But for now, these three continue: faith, hope, and charity. And the greatest of these is charity.
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]The word “love” (or “charity”, in some versions) is the Greek word “agape” (Bible software packages and other study tools are used to find more clear meanings).[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]“Charity” or “love” is Strong’s number[/FONT][FONT=&quot] <G26> , “agape”. This is agape love. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]There are other kinds of love, like friendship (philia love) and eros (erotic) love. Those kinds of [/FONT][FONT=&quot] love have to do with the enjoyment one gains from the person who is loved. They say, “You please me, and so I love you.” This is normal for us, to love this way. Agape love is sacrificial.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]What is agape love?[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]“Agape” love is God’s love, it’s loving someone because they have intrinsic value, even if they are not pleasing. We people need God to love people through us, it just isn’t in our nature to love people who are nasty and spoiled and hateful toward us. Agape love isn’t about finding someone who is delightful to us and so these emotions arise freely, it’s about finding someone intrinsically valuable, and honoring that whether or not they are delightful. The spouse without God is at a serious disadvantage in being able to love through the hard times and many if not most marriages have enough problems without have people married who do not agree on the basic nature of reality. One thinks “this is all there is” the other thinks “there is so much more.”[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]I think that gives a little better answer. My first post on this thread is more like a summary. [/FONT]

 

[Ellwood3]

[FONT=&quot]I am not, Pebeto, by the way, unsympathetic. I think you have done a good job of asking a question many people do wonder about.
[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][/FONT]
And it can't be easy, to find someone in this world, and learn there is such a huge barrier between you.
[FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Something you, or perhaps someone else, could think about:[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]You are not both right. Either the Christian or the atheist is correct. Can’t be both. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]I think she is right; there is a God and He is the God found in the Bible.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]It would be nice (from my perspective) if an atheist could go read former atheist Anthony Flew (“There is a God: How the World’s Most Notorious Atheist Changed His Mind”, 2007) or former atheist, scientist Francis Collins (The Language of God) or C. S. Lewis’ classic “Mere Christianity,” or something else and then have a genuine conversion experience and walk down the aisle with a Christian woman and start a wonderful life with each other. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]But – what I would say to anybody is -- [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]You must own your own faith, whether that’s a faith in your reasoning about there being no God, or whether it’s a faith in the God of the Bible, or faith in something else. We cannot all walk our journey of faith in step with someone else of our choosing. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]If someone asked this question about believers and nonbelievers and then said, I am an atheist, and I want to know whether I am wrong or not about it. How do I begin?[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Then I would say, humble yourself enough to know that if God exists, being supernatural, He exists beyond nature and you can’t expect to gather evidence for Him as if He were not beyond nature. So ask directly, using your own words, even asking like this:[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]God, I do not believe You exist. I do not want to believe You exist if you don’t. I am happy being an atheist. My life is less complicated. (Saying whatever else applies, then...) ...But if you do exist, help me to find You, even if it takes time. Help me to go where You lead. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Many people think a person has to pray using lots of elegant words and official mumbo jumbo; that’s not so. Just telling the truth about where you are, and starting a search can be a way to begin. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]In time, an atheist may find him or herself changing and considering more possibilities about the world we live in. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Pebeto, [/FONT][FONT=&quot]that may or may not be what you are ready to do, but it could be of value to another reader. As for you, I thank you being respectful and for doing your best to understand the faith that this woman has. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]I wish you well. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

 

[Pebeto]

I asked to this forum a question a while ago. There is probably more to say but as far as I am concerned, I am ready to close the topic as I got the answers I asked for.

First, thanks to all of you for contributing. I learned a lot. My only regret is not to have done this exercise before becoming so emotionally involved. I took the difficult decision to put my feelings behind bars, and after a lot of discussion, we agreed that the best for us would be to follow the friendship path.

 

[Ellwood3]

I asked to this forum a question a while ago. There is probably more to say but as far as I am concerned, I am ready to close the topic as I got the answers I asked for.

First, thanks to all of you for contributing. I learned a lot. My only regret is not to have done this exercise before becoming so emotionally involved. I took the difficult decision to put my feelings behind bars, and after a lot of discussion, we agreed that the best for us would be to follow the friendship path.

God bless you. I feel for you. I think you have treated her with kindness.

 

[wndwalkr99]

As a non-Christian you could not be the spiritual head of the family that your girlfriend would deserve if she were to ever marry you. There are reasons why the scriptures caution Christians concerning being yoked in marriage to non-Christians and one reason is because it is all too easy for the Christian to begin straying from the faith. That is HUGE. A Christian would not want that to happen for the sake of love because the love for God goes deeper.

Since faith is normally defined as belief without evidence, why is it a problem if the Christian half of the couple decides that it's okay to find a path to truth that is more reliable?