Regarding the necessary instruction in Theology

[Montalban]

No one but the pope thinks he (the one doing the thinking) considers himself to be endowed with infallibility.

That's simply false. His church defined it in Vatican I. It is thus a matter of Catholic faith.

That's the very point you guys aren't getting. It isn't different as far as knowing with absolute certainty that your judgment is correct. We are all in the same boat there, but there are greater and lesser probabilities. The word of God, for instance, is much more likely to be correct than the pretentions of the bishop of Rome, for example.

Which is, as I've noted several times, your fall-back position that at best no one knows.

How this proves your own case I have no idea.

 

[brevis]

I was just reading a part (well, my hubby was reading it to me while I was lying down during my acupuncture treatment) in the book about Fr. Seraphim Rose, that I thought was really important. I'll share it here:

"True Christianity," he stated in a lecture, "does not mean just having the right opinions about Christianity--this is not enough to save one's soul. St. Tikhon (of Zadonsk) says: 'If someone should say that true faith is the correct holding and confession of correct dogmas, he would be telling the truth, for a believer absolutely needs the Orthodox holding and confession of dogmas. But this knowledge and confession by itself does not make a man a faithful and true Christian. The keeping and confession of Orthodox dogmas is always to be found in true faith in Christ, but the true faith of Christ is not always to be found in the confession of Orthodoxy... The knowledge of correct dogmas is in the mind, and it is often fruitless, arrogant, and proud... The true faith in Christ is in the heart, and it is fruitful, humble, patient, loving, merciful, compassionate, hungering and thirsting for righteousness; it withdraws from worldly lusts and clings to God alone, strives and seeks always for what is heavenly and eternal, struggles against every sin, and constantly seeks and begs help from God for this.' And he then quotes Blessed Augustine, who teaches: 'The faith of a Christian is with love; faith without love is that of the devil.' St. James in his Epistle tells us that the demons also believe and tremble (James 2:19).

"St. Tikhon, therefore, gives us a start in understanding what Orthodoxy is: it is something first of all of the heart, not just the mind, something living and warm, not abstract and cold, something that is learned and practiced in life, not just in school."

*from the book Father Seraphim Rose: His Life and Works


Incidentally, while listening to this being read to me today, I got choked up...it truly touched my heart.

Absolutely excellent.

 

[Albion]

That's simply false. His church defined it in Vatican I. It is thus a matter of Catholic faith.

So, your point is that the Pope himself doesn't believe it (because that's what I said and italicized it in case someone might not quite understand otherwise)?

 

[Albion]

It isn't different as far as knowing with absolute certainty that your judgment is correct. We are all in the same boat there, but there are greater and lesser probabilities. The word of God, for instance, is much more likely to be correct than the pretentions of the bishop of Rome, for example

How do you know, because you said so?

Years of study. BTW, all the reasons leading to that conclusion have recently been posted on these forums, with plenty of evidence. You can look it up if you are interested.

 

[Montalban]

So, your point is that the Pope himself doesn't believe it (because that's what I said and italicized it in case someone might not quite understand otherwise)?

Your post was wrong. You said that ONLY the pope believed it.

No one but the pope thinks he (the one doing the thinking) considers himself to be endowed with infallibility.

The Catholic Church believes it as defined by Vatican I

 

[Montalban]

Years of study. BTW, all the reasons leading to that conclusion have recently been posted on these forums, with plenty of evidence. You can look it up if you are interested.

Which is still circular reasoning

 

[Keachian]

I'm just wondering why this thread has gone into defence of the CC land? Shouldn't all Christians be trying to understand theology regardless of their denominational position?

 

[Albion]

Shouldn't all Christians be trying to understand theology regardless of their denominational position?

You'd think so.

 

[Albion]

Your post was wrong. You said that ONLY the pope believed it.

No, I didn't. Read it again.

 

[Montalban]

No, I didn't. Read it again.

I cited you. You said NO ONE BUT THE POPE...

Here it is again...

No one but the pope thinks he (the one doing the thinking) considers himself to be endowed with infallibility.

 

[brevis]

- Good morning
- Good evening

I think we're facing another debate on a badly phrased/read sentence.

 

[Albion]

Here it is again...

Albion

No, I didn't (say that). Read it again.

Mont

I cited you. You said NO ONE BUT THE POPE...

Here it is again...

Originally Posted by Albion

No one but the pope thinks he (the one doing the thinking) considers himself to be endowed with infallibility.
​

Considers himself to be....

No one else's opinion was referenced.

What more can I do to point you to the parts of the sentence that you don't read? I've tried explanations, parentheses, and italics. Now I'm trying colors, bolding and underlinings in addition, and I'm done.

 

[Montalban]

What more can I do to point you to the parts of the sentence that you don't read? I've tried explanations, parentheses, and italics. Now I'm trying colors, bolding and underlinings in addition, and I'm done.

The sentence then makes no sense. No one but the pope is superfluous to what you claim you wish to say. To convey the meaning you now claim you wish to convey all you had to say is "The pope thinks that he is infallible."

By placing "No one but..." you are comparing what he is thinking to that of others.

I'm happy to help, I've done English teaching before.