Regarding Regeneration, Total Depravity and the Good News

[janxharris]

Can anyone repent and turn to Christ and believe without being regenerated (born again)?

1. If they can, then the Reformed doctrine of 'total depravity' is not total.
2. If they can't, then the good news is bad news for those God decided would not be regenerated.

 

[ChristianT]

Can anyone repent and turn to Christ and believe without being regenerated (born again)?

1. If they can, then the Reformed doctrine of 'total depravity' is not total.
2. If they can't, then the good news is bad news for those God decided would not be regenerated.

They technically can, but practically don't desire to.

 

[janxharris]

They technically can, but practically don't desire to.

Are you saying regeneration is required or not?

 

[Elderone]

Can anyone repent and turn to Christ and believe without being regenerated (born again)?

No.

1. If they can, then the Reformed doctrine of 'total depravity' is not total.

Rom 3:11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

2. If they can't, then the good news is bad news for those God decided would not be regenerated.

Correct.

 

[janxharris]

No.

Rom 3:11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

Romans 3:10-12
As it is written:“There is no one righteous, not even one; there is no one who understands, no one who seeks God. All have turned away, they have together become worthless;

1. What did they turn away from?
2. What were they before they became worthless?

If they can't, then the good news is bad news for those God decided would not be regenerated.

Correct

Surely you are denying these words of Jesus:
He said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the good news to all creation. (Mark 16:15)?

That the Passion of Christ is Good News for every person is undeniable.

 

[Eddie L]

This is the "ask a Calvinist" forum, not the "Debate a Calvinist" forum. If you're truly interested to know what believe without arguing about it, this is the place. I don't think that's your plan, though, so you're probably in the wrong forum.

 

[JM]

Can anyone repent and turn to Christ and believe without being regenerated (born again)?

No, absolutely not. We believe because we are justified, not justified because we believe. Faith is instrumental and needed but it is not something we do to get justified. Here's a video I made from a Don Fornter sermon that might help explain better then I could.

Mighty to Save - YouTube

1. If they can, then the Reformed doctrine of 'total depravity' is not total.

I think more and more Reformed minded folks call it total inability but yes, total depravity works as well. If man is able to assist in salvation, as the Arminian or other may argue, then yes the Reformed doctrine would be wrong.

2. If they can't, then the good news is bad news for those God decided would not be regenerated.

Everyone hates the Gospel and finds it offensive before regeneration so the good news is only good news to those who are been brought to a place by the Holy Spirit to see that it is good. Consider the ministry of Isaiah (6) whose goal in preaching was to, "Make the heart of this people fat, and make their ears heavy, and shut their eyes; lest they see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and convert, and be healed. Then said I, Lord, how long? And he answered, Until the cities be wasted without inhabitant, and the houses without man, and the land be utterly desolate, (Isa 6:9-11)

So yeah, the preaching of the Gospel is good news to God's people, but not good news to the reprobate wicked who suppress the knowledge of God for a lie.

Romans 3:10-12
As it is written:“There is no one righteous, not even one; there is no one who understands, no one who seeks God. All have turned away, they have together become worthless;

1. What did they turn away from?

They willingly followed their sinful natures and turned away from the moral Law of God written on our hearts at creation. This Law condemns the reprobate. Romans 2

2. What were they before they became worthless?

You are asking a complicated question to solicit a presupposed response, its a good trick, but not necessarily helpful.

Scripture presents a picture of fallen man as dead in sin, who know God exists but suppress the knowledge of God and His moral law. (Romans 2)

Romans 3 creates a word picture of fallen humanity with strong imaginary. The idea found in the passage is one of "stinking flesh, which is tainted and corrupted." (Gill) A person dead in sin continues sinning willfully, ignoring the law written on their hearts, so the imaginary is consistent, a body becomes more unlike its former created image as death consumes it, is unprofitable for the service of God.

Surely you are denying these words of Jesus:
He said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the good news to all creation. (Mark 16:15)?

No, no Reformed Christian would deny the free proclamation to all, but the proclamation of the Gospel has a two sided affect. It calls God's people and hardens the hearts of those that reject it...to the glory of God, Aman.

That the Passion of Christ is Good News for every person is undeniable.

That statement is not based on scripture.

 

[janxharris]

This is the "ask a Calvinist" forum, not the "Debate a Calvinist" forum. If you're truly interested to know what believe without arguing about it, this is the place. I don't think that's your plan, though, so you're probably in the wrong forum.

Oops sorry, you are right. Will post appropriately. Thanks.

I have reposted this at 'Debate with a Calvinist'. Thanks all.