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Refuting Sola Scriptura - Why the Bible Alone is Not Sufficient

Do You Adhear to Sola Scriptura?


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Citizen of the Kingdom

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Thank you.

We've moved on.

No scripture to teach SS, now what is the source of SS?
Why suppose that there is no scripture that specifies SS? Need the bible promote itself? or should we take it at face value instead of denying the power thereof? There has been mentioned that all scripture is for learning, example of Barean's searching the scriptures being examplified as a wise thing to do, etc etc Scripture has within all that is needed for salvation. Teachers are needed to teach the bible. Nothing else is needed to add to it.
 
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MoreCoffee

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If you have some passage or passages to share then be my guest.

Why suppose that there is no scripture that specifies SS? Need the bible promote itself? or should we take it at face value instead of denying the power thereof? There has been mentioned that all scripture is for learning, example of Barean's searching the scriptures being examplified as a wise thing to do, etc etc Scripture has within all that is needed for salvation. Teachers are needed to teach the bible. Nothing else is needed to add to it.
 
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“For I testify unto every man that hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the Book of Life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book”
—Revelation 22:18-19

And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
-1 Timothy 3:15-17

And this voice which came from heaven we heard, when we were with him in the holy mount.
We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:
Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.
-2 Peter 1:18-21​

Jesus' testimony

Sanctify them by the truth; Your word is truth
-John 17:17

Thy righteousness is an everlasting righteousness, and thy law is the truth.
-Psalm 119:142​

That alone, that God's truth according to scripture is righteousness, is the believer's standard of truth

Christ states forty six times "It Is Written" underscoring the importance.
Doesn't it seem odd that Christ totally accepted the authority of the Old Testament as evidenced by His own words


Matthew 5:17-18
“Think not that I came to destroy the law or the prophets: I am not come to destroy but to fulfill. For verily, I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law till all be fulfilled.”

He left no room for traditions

Proverbs 30:5-6:
“Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him. Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar.”

Mark 7:13 “You are making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such things do ye.”​

It's God's word alone that He has shown to be pure and uncontaminated and we're not to add to it

Isaiah 8:20
“To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.”​

The importance of the written word is also a testimony of love as Jesus Christ also pointed out

John 14:23-24
Jesus answered and said to him, "If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him. He that loveth me not keeps not my sayings; and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father’s which sent Me”
Matthew 24:35
And then again “Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words shall not pass away”​
 
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“For I testify unto every man that hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the Book of Life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book”
—Revelation 22:18-19​
The passage in Revelation tells me that adding to and taking from the The Revelation of Saint John the Theologian will either cost one's place in the book of life (for taking from the book) or add the plagues mentioned in the book for adding to it. There's no claim supporting SS in that is there?
And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
-1 Timothy 3:15-17
Why did you miss verse 14? The quote reads better with it included thus:
You must keep to what you have been taught and know to be true; remember who your teachers were, and how, ever since you were a child, you have known the holy scriptures -from these you can learn the wisdom that leads to salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. All scripture is inspired by God and useful for refuting error, for guiding people's lives and teaching them to be upright. This is how someone who is dedicated to God becomes fully equipped and ready for any good work. (2 Timothy 3:14-17)​
Where's the claim in that passage that SS is true or that holy scripture is sufficient for all your doctrine and practises?

And this voice which came from heaven we heard, when we were with him in the holy mount.
We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:
Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.
-2 Peter 1:18-21
As far as I can tell saint Peter is referring to his experience on the mount of transfiguration as confirming the teaching of the profits of the old covenant. You appear to have quoted from the KJV. I use a different bible which reads thus:
When we told you about the power and the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, we were not slavishly repeating cleverly invented myths; no, we had seen his majesty with our own eyes. He was honoured and glorified by God the Father, when a voice came to him from the transcendent Glory, This is my Son, the Beloved; he enjoys my favour. We ourselves heard this voice from heaven, when we were with him on the holy mountain. So we have confirmation of the words of the prophets; and you will be right to pay attention to it as to a lamp for lighting a way through the dark, until the dawn comes and the morning star rises in your minds. At the same time, we must recognise that the interpretation of scriptural prophecy is never a matter for the individual. For no prophecy ever came from human initiative. When people spoke for God it was the Holy Spirit that moved them. (2 Peter 1:16-21)​
What saint Peter had to say in his teaching was far more clear than the words of the old covenant prophets because saint Peter was a witness to the life, teaching, death, and resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ while the old covenant prophets wrote of those things less clearly than saint peter's eye witness account. I wonder why anybody would think that this passage teaches something like SS when in fact it is teaching that the gospel confirms and expands the old covenant scriptures' testimony about the Lord Jesus Christ. As saint Paul says elsewhere, they (the old covenant saints) had a shadow but Christians have the reality. Clearly saint Peter is not teaching SS.
Jesus' testimony

Sanctify them by the truth; Your word is truth
-John 17:17​
Affirming that what God says is the truth is slightly different from affirming that only what is written is truth. The Lord says "you word is truth" not "the scriptures are truth". I do not deny that holy scripture is truth but it is far from being the only place where truth resides.
Thy righteousness is an everlasting righteousness, and thy law is the truth.
-Psalm 119:142
That alone, that God's truth according to scripture is righteousness, is the believer's standard of truth

Christ states forty six times "It Is Written" underscoring the importance.
Doesn't it seem odd that Christ totally accepted the authority of the Old Testament as evidenced by His own words


Matthew 5:17-18
“Think not that I came to destroy the law or the prophets: I am not come to destroy but to fulfill. For verily, I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law till all be fulfilled.”

He left no room for traditions

Proverbs 30:5-6:
“Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him. Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar.”

Mark 7:13 “You are making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such things do ye.”​
It's God's word alone that He has shown to be pure and uncontaminated and we're not to add to it

Isaiah 8:20
“To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.”​
The importance of the written word is also a testimony of love as Jesus Christ also pointed out

John 14:23-24
Jesus answered and said to him, "If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him. He that loveth me not keeps not my sayings; and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father’s which sent Me”
Matthew 24:35
And then again “Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words shall not pass away”​
I may return to comment on the other passages you quoted but since the first ones in your post are not directly relevant to the topic of SS perhaps you have some other passage or passages that actually do address the matter of this thread? If you do then maybe we can move on to them rather than write long posts about texts that do not teach SS? If you don't have any passage teaching SS then we can move on and see what the real source of the doctrine is.
 
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Citizen of the Kingdom

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Go ahead ... have fun ... just be well informed that because the scriptures does not say the words scripture alone, does not mean that anything that anyone wishes to add to them can ever legitimately be confirmed as truth
 
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thecolorsblend

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The importance of the written word is also a testimony of love as Jesus Christ also pointed out
None of the passages you quote restrict the concepts of truth, authority or any other subject exclusively to the written word.
 
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I stand by my above post
So do I stand by the holy scripture that is quoted in your post but the attempt to link those passages with SS is an utter failure. Best more on as I suggested before. Perhaps another passage will do better than those posted thus far since those posted do not teach SS or anything like it.
 
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You're right to say that holy scripture never says that "scripture alone" is the foundation of all revealed truth and all sound doctrine. That lack is in itself evidence against SS.

Go ahead ... have fun ... just be well informed that because the scriptures does not say the words scripture alone, does not mean that anything that anyone wishes to add to them can ever legitimately be confirmed as truth
 
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You're right to say that holy scripture never says that "scripture alone" is the foundation of all revealed truth and all sound doctrine. That lack is in itself evidence against SS.
I think it's much more likely that the fact that anything added to scripture cannot be substantiated w/o scripture is the ultimate proof that SS is a fact, so no wonder scripture has no need to state the obvious.
 
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There are many truths in the world that are not in holy scripture. Some of them are trivial and some are significant. A trivial truth is that insects have six legs (barring accident or serious mutation) and that spiders have eight (with the same qualification). Among the significant truths is that the passing of the 'generation' which heard the teaching of Christ evidently does not mean a period of a few decades since more than 1,900 years have passed since the Lord walked the Earth speaking and teaching the crowds. I am referring to the passage that says:
The Lesson from the Fig Tree
(Matthew 24:32-35; Luke 21:29-33)
¶ “Now learn a lesson [Or parable] from the fig tree. When its branches become tender and it produces leaves, you know that summer is near. In the same way, when you see these things taking place, you will know that the Son of Man [Lit. that he] is near, right at the door. I tell all of you [The Gk. pronoun you is pl.] with certainty, this generation will not disappear until all these things take place. Heaven and earth will disappear, but my words will never disappear.” (Mark 13:28-31)

I think it's much more likely that the fact that anything added to scripture cannot be substantiated w/o scripture is the ultimate proof that SS is a fact, so no wonder scripture has no need to state the obvious.
 
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Citizen of the Kingdom

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There are many truths in the world that are not in holy scripture. Some of them are trivial and some are significant. A trivial truth is that insects have six legs (barring accident or serious mutation) and that spiders have eight (with the same qualification). Among the significant truths is that the passing of the 'generation' which heard the teaching of Christ evidently does not mean a period of a few decades since more than 1,900 years have passed since the Lord walked the Earth speaking and teaching the crowds. I am referring to the passage that says:
The Lesson from the Fig Tree
(Matthew 24:32-35; Luke 21:29-33)
¶ “Now learn a lesson [Or parable] from the fig tree. When its branches become tender and it produces leaves, you know that summer is near. In the same way, when you see these things taking place, you will know that the Son of Man [Lit. that he] is near, right at the door. I tell all of you [The Gk. pronoun you is pl.] with certainty, this generation will not disappear until all these things take place. Heaven and earth will disappear, but my words will never disappear.” (Mark 13:28-31)
umn, He was talking about the generation that "when you see the abomination in the temple", that generation will not disapear until all these things take place ..........tis late to argue about things that don't pertain..g'night
 
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Either way, it was not the generation of people alive when he said it. And that is known now but not at the time the holy scriptures were being written. So no matter how you cut it the fact is that significant truth is made known outside of holy scripture.

umn, He was talking about the generation that "when you see the abomination in the temple", that generation will not disapear until all these things take place ..........tis late to argue about things that don't pertain..g'night
 
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Either way, it was not the generation of people alive when he said it. And that is known now but not at the time the holy scriptures were being written. So no matter how you cut it the fact is that significant truth is made known outside of holy scripture.
Read the scripture. They asked Him when the things He was talking about were going to happen. They asked 2 questions. One about then and one about the end. He answered both at the same time. Just because they couldn't understand it then does not mean that we can't now!
 
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I think this has gone far enough. The point is made and need not be laboured. Let's not strain at gnats unless you really do want to assert that no significant truth appertaining to God's purposes is revealed outside of holy scripture. If that is your belief then surely there is at least one passage that says as much. Let's see it if it exists.

Read the scripture. They asked Him when the things He was talking about were going to happen. They asked 2 questions. One about then and one about the end. He answered both at the same time. Just because they couldn't understand it then does not mean that we can't now!
 
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Obviously no point has been made except where you choose to believe. Maybe you should just start a new thread for your new point of discussion instead of claiming some imaginary concensus that no passages exist. Obviously many believe the passages do exist. If it's not worded according to your liking then so be it, it isn't changing anyone's minds any more than where we thing that your adding to scripture is blasphemy.
 
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Why reply if all you intend to write is that you do not like what I wrote? I already knew that was likely so. And if many people 'believe' that the passages exist then why can't they produce any that actually credibly make the case for SS? So far all we've seen is passages affirm the truth of God's law, or the prophets, or the value of holy scripture in forming a person's religious life. We all affirm these points yet none of them asserts SS.

Obviously no point has been made except where you choose to believe. Maybe you should just start a new thread for your new point of discussion instead of claiming some imaginary concensus that no passages exist. Obviously many believe the passages do exist. If it's not worded according to your liking then so be it, it isn't changing anyone's minds any more than where we thing that your adding to scripture is blasphemy.
 
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Why reply if all you intend to write is that you do not like what I wrote? I already knew that was likely so. And if many people 'believe' that the passages exist then why can't they produce any that actually credibly make the case for SS? So far all we've seen is passages affirm the truth of God's law, or the prophets, or the value of holy scripture in forming a person's religious life. We all affirm these points yet none of them asserts SS.
The same could be said of your intent, to only want to protect your assertion " that significant truth is made known outside of holy scripture." Perhaps what we need is to hear how you can justify that. It's catch 22 isn't. Scripture you use for that is more ambiguos than for SS. Difference is we don't affirm your interpretation but you affirm ours :)
 
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I did suggest moving on several posts ago but you haven't and so I replied to you without saying or implying that I don't like what you post - the truth is that I enjoy a good exchange of views if the views are substantial. The only complaint I have is that straining at gnats is not profitable and alleging that the passage in Mark that I quoted is not significantly enhanced by knowing that after almost two thousand years the Lord has not returned to wind up the wicked world in which we live and so the 'generation' is now known not to be the one that heard the Lord say those words but some other generation or some alternative concept of generation that only a perspective taken two thousand years later gives.

The same could be said of your intent, to only want to protect your assertion " that significant truth is made known outside of holy scripture." Perhaps what we need is to hear how you can justify that. It's catch 22 isn't. Scripture you use for that is more ambiguos than for SS. Difference is we don't affirm your interpretation but you affirm ours :)
 
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Rick Otto

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None of the passages you quote restrict the concepts of truth, authority or any other subject exclusively to the written word.
Sola Scripture does not limit truth to the written word, either.
How could anyone think it does?
 
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