Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.
Why did she offer the sin offering of 2 turtledoves?
We are talking about mary with those two verses. MARY WAS NOT BORN WITHOUT SIN!Neither of those verses say that the New Eve was born in sin, or that she sinned. Neither do they imply that the New Adam sinned. The second quotation is a quotation from Psalm 114 which says that there is a "generation of the righteous". So clearly the passage is referring to the many wicked in the world. It's not denying that there are some righteous. Likewise babies haven't sinned. They are another exception.
Mark 1:5 and 1 Corinthians 15:22 are two other examples where "all" does not mean every person.
Checkmate.Why did she offer the sin offering of 2 turtledoves?
We are talking about mary with those two verses. MARY WAS NOT BORN WITHOUT SIN!
You are absolutely correct. It is the Catholic church that says so.I don't think the Bible says "Mary was not born without sin!".
You are absolutely correct. It is the Catholic church that says so.
Catholic Catechism, par. 494 below.
Catholic Catechism, par. 966 "Finally the Immaculate Virgin, preserved free from all stain of original sin, when the course of her earthly life was finished, was taken up body and soul into heavenly glory, and exalted by the Lord as Queen over all things, so that she might be the more fully conformed to her Son, the Lord of lords and conqueror of sin and death.' [LG 59; cf. Pius XII, Munificentissimus Deus (1950): DS 3903; cf. Revelation 19:16.] The Assumption of the Blessed Virgin is a singular participation in her Son's Resurrection and an anticipation of the resurrection of other Christians: In giving birth you kept your virginity; in your Dormition you did not leave the world, O Mother of God, but were joined to the source of Life. You conceived the living God and, by your prayers, will deliver our souls from death.[Byzantine Liturgy, Troparion, Feast of the Dormition, August 15th.]
So...where did the catechism come fromAmen to the Catechism. I think what you stated--that Mary was not born without sin--is not in Scripture.
So...where did the catechism come from
And how did the Vicar of Christ come to that conclusion?The passage in the Catechism which you quoted is from the Vicar of Christ's dogmatic statement about the Assumption of Mary.
The Catechism itself, like the N.T. Canon, comes from Catholic Tradition.
What century did those (NT canon and Assumption) occur? Because what the church fathers decided for the church is not a basis for catholics alone while the assumption is for Catholics alone.The passage in the Catechism which you quoted is from the Vicar of Christ's dogmatic statement about the Assumption of Mary.
The Catechism itself, like the N.T. Canon, comes from Catholic Tradition.
Checkmate.
The point was that there was a commandment for the sin offering law after giving birth while there was no law condemning anyone in baptism.Reflecting on this... I think this is one of the reasons why I don't believe in the Sola Scriptura idea. Essentially what you are saying is that if Mary keeps the Law by making the sin offering after giving birth, then that means she was a sinner. But of course, the Bible doesn't say that. Nor does Jesus being baptized by John mean that Jesus was a sinner. I think that both the New Eve and Her Son, the New Adam, were humbly entering into our lives.
So, unbiblical.False, all my prayers come from my heart.
I already did. Angel Gabriel calls her by her title "Full of Grace".Show me one the biblical justification for this statement because I already have two that say she was not born without sin.
Rhetorical. But Mary was a sinner, she was created. God just saved her prior to her birth.Romans 3:22-23 There is no difference, for ALL have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.
Again, of her own accord, no. God did the saving work.Romans 3:10-12 As it is written: "There is NO ONE righteous, NOT EVEN ONE; there is no one who understands, no one who seeks God. ALL have turned away, they have together become worthless; there is NO ONE who does good, not even one."
Where's your biblical basis for that?More like a surrogate mother of God.
The word pray means to ask. So if I ask you to prove something I'm praying to you. Detestable to the lord? I don't think so. Asking someone to pray for you is not detestable to God. In fact, the Lord's prayer is intercessory, by nature.Yes when you pray to God when you seek intercession. If you pray to anyone else (including Mary) it is "detestable to the lord" Deuteronomy 18:11
We're honoring Mary. Jesus tells us not to be judgmental, too, but you're being judgmental...Nobody says she was divine, and she is not worshiped.
Who are you talking to when you pray the "Hail Mary"!
To you, but not to us. But to us, you're being judgmental, which Christ told us not to be...judging people's hearts is for God alone."God has entrusted the keys and treasures of heaven to Mary."
Thomas Aquinas
"Who can worthily thank you and adequately praise you, oh Blessed Virgin, who by your fiat has saved a lost world."
St. Augustine
"The foundation of all our confidence is found in the Blessed Virgin Mary. God has committed to her the treasury of all good things, in order that everyone may know that through her are obtained every hope, every grace, and all salvation. For this is His will: That we obtain everything through Mary."
Pope Pius IX
"Sinners receive pardon by the intercession of Mary alone."
St. John Chrysostom
"No one ever finds Christ but with and through Mary. Whoever seeks Christ apart from Mary seeks Him in vain."
St. Bonaventure
"All those who seek Mary’s protection will be saved for all eternity."
Pope Benedict XV
"Holy Scripture was written to Mary, about Mary, and on account of Mary."
St. Bernard
"What will it cost you, oh Mary, to hear our prayer? What will it cost you to save us? Has not Jesus placed in your hands all the treasures of His grace and mercy? You sit crowned Queen at the right hand of your son: your dominion reaches as far as the heavens and to you are subject the earth and all creatures dwelling thereon. Your dominion reaches even down into the abyss of hell, and you alone, oh Mary, save us from the hands of Satan."
Pope Pius Xl
"Mary, not one of your devout servants has ever perished: may I, too, Be saved!"
Pope Benedict XV
Sounds a lot like worship to me.
Mary is not everyone else. She is Jesus's mother, Jesus, the son of God. Not just anyone. Do you believe God broke any of his own commandments?The same reason why everyone else is not born sinless. If this was the case, why would God not make everyone born sinless and be done with it?
So was Mary. Catholicism 101.She was not BORN sinless by grace. She was CREATED sinless because it was before the fall. Christianity 101.[emoji19]
Because she's human, and that was the law.Why did she offer the sin offering of 2 turtledoves?
What century did those (NT canon and Assumption) occur? Because what the church fathers decided for the church is not a basis for catholics alone while the assumption is for Catholics alone.
What do you mean? The canon is scripture and it's the point of reference any doctrine must be based on. In fact it's SS that makes anything else suspect and speculation.One of the problems with the S.S. idea is that the Canon is not in Scripture.
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?