Refuting OSAS in jesus name

[Hammster]

We have free will if God can push a don't sin button in the saved why not everyone don't sin ? does he not love all

What does that have to do with losing your salvation?

 

[Albion]

Actually Bob can know.

No, they can't "know" in the sense of something that is demonstrably provable. They can be assured. They can trust and have reason to trust. They can have quite compelling reasons for being confident of their salvation.

But they cannot know with a certainty.

 

[lori milne]

With OSAS, no one can know. See my last post above. .

it is only assumed bob never was saved
In that passage or example.
I can assume we all can walk water with no faith aswell then?'


there are Many many clear not "multiple meaning "passages but clear passages clearly stated

brethren that fall back into perdition , falling away, to err /turn from to go back.

But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul. ([bless and do not curse]Hebrews‬ [bless and do not curse]10‬:[bless and do not curse]39‬ KJV)
Note : not of them THAT draw back!

Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him. ([bless and do not curse]Hebrews‬ [bless and do not curse]10‬:[bless and do not curse]1, 38‬ KJV)

We can clearly see iniquity as being sin / but not just a sin , sins that aren't repented of .
Peter committed iniquity denying CHRIST ,
David also with the murdering of bashibas husband.
But they repented/ didn't continue in the willful sin and were full of guilt and both asked for forgiveness!!

Jesus said I never new you you workers of iniquity clearly.

Just as much as we can't deny the passages you put up They are valid passages but can mean two or more things is the confusing part.
You also can't deny a clear not confusing only 1 meaning statement from jesus!

If you live in sin this is considers wicked iniquity and you are not COVARD by willful sinning
Also clearly states in passage
Hebrew 10:26
For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, ([bless and do not curse]Hebrews‬ [bless and do not curse]10‬:[bless and do not curse]26‬ KJV)

Clear as a bell!
A child could understand but apparently not ARE lying flesh that keeps us in sin.

Free from sin is Not Free to sin

Another Clear statement
No multiple meanings

Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him. ([bless and do not curse]1 John‬ [bless and do not curse]3‬:[bless and do not curse]6‬ KJV)

With OSAS
Is either you think your saved in your sin meaning you can sin and your sins are COVARD.
Which is also not at all in the bible it say all past sins! Not future not current!

But the There is another believe stemming from Calvinism
That is predestined to be saved and that God makes us not want to sin.
Again a flawed idea only because free will is not controlled if it were and God could pre select why not all!
Goes against Gods love for the whole world that he gave ...

 

[Albion]

But the There is another believe stemming from Calvinism
That is predestined to be saved and that God makes us not want to sin.
Again a flawed idea only because free will is not controlled if it were and God could pre select why not all!

Well, that's an illogical statement if I've ever heard one. God can certainly have his reasons for choosing some and not others.

 

[Hammster]

it is only assumed bob never was saved
In that passage or example.
I can assume we all can walk water with no faith aswell then?'


there are Many many clear not "multiple meaning "passages but clear passages clearly stated

brethren that fall back into perdition , falling away, to err /turn from to go back.

But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul. ([bless and do not curse]Hebrews‬ [bless and do not curse]10‬:[bless and do not curse]39‬ KJV)
Note : not of them THAT draw back!

Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him. ([bless and do not curse]Hebrews‬ [bless and do not curse]10‬:[bless and do not curse]1, 38‬ KJV)

We can clearly see iniquity as being sin / but not just a sin , sins that aren't repented of .
Peter committed iniquity denying CHRIST ,
David also with the murdering of bashibas husband.
But they repented/ didn't continue in the willful sin and were full of guilt and both asked for forgiveness!!

Jesus said I never new you you workers of iniquity clearly.

Just as much as we can't deny the passages you put up They are valid passages but can mean two or more things is the confusing part.
You also can't deny a clear not confusing only 1 meaning statement from jesus!

If you live in sin this is considers wicked iniquity and you are not COVARD by willful sinning
Also clearly states in passage
Hebrew 10:26
For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, ([bless and do not curse]Hebrews‬ [bless and do not curse]10‬:[bless and do not curse]26‬ KJV)

Clear as a bell!
A child could understand but apparently not ARE lying flesh that keeps us in sin.

Free from sin is Not Free to sin

Another Clear statement
No multiple meanings

Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him. ([bless and do not curse]1 John‬ [bless and do not curse]3‬:[bless and do not curse]6‬ KJV)

With OSAS
Is either you think your saved in your sin meaning you can sin and your sins are COVARD.
Which is also not at all in the bible it say all past sins! Not future not current!

But the There is another believe stemming from Calvinism
That is predestined to be saved and that God makes us not want to sin.
Again a flawed idea only because free will is not controlled if it were and God could pre select why not all!
Goes against Gods love for the whole world that he gave ...

Will you still want to sin in heaven?

 

[lori milne]

Will you still want to sin in heaven?

No not when we are from Glory to Glory
Does God want to sin
We will be like are father perfect as he is

 

[lori milne]

Well, that's an illogical statement if I've ever heard one. God can certainly have his reasons for choosing some and not others.

Yes he is God and we don't understand these things respectfully as children of God

But If that's true the God who so loved the world is not correct. And many others that speak if all men.

I see how you see as well In passages like :

But he said unto them, All men cannot receive this saying, save they to whom it is given. ([bless and do not curse]Matthew‬ [bless and do not curse]19‬:[bless and do not curse]11‬ KJV)

These passages have multiple meanings clearly

There are understandings I have assumed my self about descendants of cane and the chosen children "Israel" but we have to take the entire word and trust in the theme of the word and balance it out,

some things like does God allowing most to go to hell for eternity mean he loves them?

when you weigh it out against the entire word, does it balance out or make sense.
If it doesn't go with what is in the entire Bible then your assumption is wrong!

I see Israel his chosen children and think why them??
And then we're back to not knowing again only left to assume again. well let's see what the entire word says

Cane was loved and God even put a hedge of protection on him and waited but he said no your judgement is to hard!

The bible says
He will give us all a chance to turn from him or turn to him even people in other country's because it's written on all of our hearts and if you knock the door will open!
All that were before CHRIST were in Aberhams bosom. Until Christ set them free.
COVARD there sins.

I'm a NO commentary study in fact when some one says this is what so and so says I tell them to get the Bible out!

Jesus was the word that became flesh
We can't just eat half a meal
God bless

 

[ToBeBlessed]

No, they can't "know" in the sense of something that is demonstrably provable. They can be assured. They can trust and have reason to trust. They can have quite compelling reasons for being confident of their salvation.

But they cannot know with a certainty.

Going down that road .... The same could be said about God in general. We are compelled and confident, but no one knows 100% who is still alive.

I'm not understanding why that comment is relevant. Aren't we assuming that those who are saved have faith also?

 

[ToBeBlessed]

We have free will if God can push a don't sin button in the saved why not everyone don't sin ? does he not love all

What is this don't sin button that God pushes? In the saved?

Are you speaking of the Holy Spirit, He convicts us of our sin, but He is no button, not even close. He is God.

 

[ToBeBlessed]

Keeping his commandments doesn't mean never breaking it.

Keeping is more in the context of loving - loving his commandments.


Is that you and your kid in the avatar? It's like loving your kid doesn't mean you never get angry at them by mistake. And even if you do, your love remains.

That kind of love.

It will truly show if you love your kid as you love/keep God's commandments even if we still make mistakes.

It's nigh impossible to be a perfect parent but if the love is there, everyone will see it!

In that context of keeping the commandments... ...not for saving our own skin, but because we love it because it does good to people around you and we love to do good to others.

Therefore, if you love/keep the commandments then it's NOT really a burden to do it, just like raising a child because you love the child.

Yes.

In that same vein if one loves the Lord with all their heart, soul and mind, many times this love and relationship motivates us to want to see God's will done. We know this is what our Lord wants and His desires become our desires.

That is why it is most important to walk WITH God. Not to walk the Christian life on our strength, but to walk the Christian life with God, on His strength. Two very different things.

 

[lori milne]

For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. ([bless and do not curse]Matthew‬ [bless and do not curse]5‬:[bless and do not curse]18-19‬ KJV)

 

[ToBeBlessed]

With OSAS, no one can know. See my last post above.

.

Not everyone who believes OSAS is a Calvinist you know.

 

[Hammster]

No not when we are from Glory to Glory
Does God want to sin
We will be like are father perfect as he is

So no free will in heaven?

 

[lori milne]

Not everyone who believes OSAS is a Calvinist you know.

Of corse not its not even what was said
Calvinism started the theology of OSAS and now it's just called that because it's it's own theology now.

 

[Albion]

Going down that road .... The same could be said about God in general. We are compelled and confident, but no one knows 100% who is still alive.

I'm not understanding why that comment is relevant. Aren't we assuming that those who are saved have faith also?

It's just a technical point. A few people insisted that the saved know that they are saved. My point was that we can trust that we are, if everything is in accordance with the Bible, there's faith, Jesus meant what he said, etc. but although saying you "know" you're saved sounds great, it's not that cleancut. There's really no theological issue there; it was just a minor point.

 

[Hammster]

Of corse not its not even what was said
Calvinism started the theology of OSAS and now it's just called that because it's it's own theology now.

Actually, God started the theology. The Apostles wrote about it. Calvin helped systematize it.

 

[lori milne]

So no free will in heaven?

Nice one
I like that lol
Yes
If sin is evil or wicked and God isn't ,Then your answer is that.

But " this is my assumption" because we don't know or understand the depths of heaven"

We are given time here to understand and then choose and then prepare.
He wants us to want to be good!
He wants us to willing Choose this because he doesn't want evil in heaven.!!

How can we not sin if it is us
Through Jesus Christ! And his promise!

We will thirst no more !
Amen

Few

 

[Hammster]

Nice one
I like that lol
Yes
If sin is evil or wicked and God isn't ,Then your answer is that.

But " this is my assumption" because we don't know or understand the depths of heaven"

We are given time here to understand and then choose and then prepare.
He wants us to want to be good!
He wants us to willing Choose this because he doesn't want evil in heaven.!!

How can we not sin if it is us
Through Jesus Christ! And his promise!

We will thirst no more !
Amen

Few

So will we be in heaven based on our goodness, or His?

 

[ToBeBlessed]

Actually, God started the theology. The Apostles wrote about it. Calvin helped systematize it.

Yes.

So, to say that one is a Calvanist or not a Calvinist is more like a theological shortcut to put a base of beliefs together in the same basket. Aren't there like 5 basic beliefs if you believe all 5 then you are like a 5 point Calvanist or something?

 

[Hammster]

Yes.

So, to say that one is a Calvanist or not a Calvinist is more like a theological shortcut to put a base of beliefs together in the same basket. Aren't there like 5 basic beliefs if you believe all 5 then you are like a 5 point Calvanist or something?

Although I've read very little Calvin, I don't mind the title because it's an easy identifier.