reformed

[StillGods]

is Reformed Theology bad?

 

[bcbsr]

is Reformed Theology bad?

Depends on what aspects of "Reformed Theology" you're talking about.

 

[Loren T.]

That's a pretty broad question. I don't agree with some of the tenets of reformed theology because I find them unbiblical. But, technically, guys like Wesley were still reformed, they just re formed again because they saw problems with certain reformed conclusions, such as limited atonement. I personally think there are extremes that are often gone to in churches that are unhealthy, like the reformed tend to over emphasize God controlling everything and some of the pentecostals and such seem to over emphasize man's ability to control his life.

 

[Southernscotty]

This is an answer from Got questions..
Broadly speaking, Reformed theology includes any system of belief that traces its roots back to the Protestant Reformation of the 16th Century. Of course, the Reformers themselves traced their doctrine to Scripture, as indicated by their credo of “sola scriptura,” so Reformed theology is not a “new” belief system but one that seeks to continue apostolic doctrine.

Generally, Reformed theology holds to the authority of Scripture, the sovereignty of God, salvation by grace through Christ, and the necessity of evangelism. It is sometimes called Covenant theology because of its emphases on the covenant God made with Adam and the new covenant which came through Jesus Christ (Luke 22:20).

Authority of Scripture. Reformed theology teaches that the Bible is the inspired and authoritative Word of God, sufficient in all matters of faith and practice.

Sovereignty of God. Reformed theology teaches that God rules with absolute control over all creation. He has foreordained all events and is therefore never frustrated by circumstances. This does not limit the will of the creature, nor does it make God the author of sin.

Salvation by grace. Reformed theology teaches that God in His grace and mercy has chosen to redeem a people to Himself, delivering them from sin and death. The Reformed doctrine of salvation is commonly represented by the acrostic TULIP (also known as the five points of Calvinism):

T - total depravity. Man is completely helpless in his sinful state, is under the wrath of God, and can in no way please God. Total depravity also means that man will not naturally seek to know God, until God graciously prompts him to do so (Genesis 6:5; Jeremiah 17:9; Romans 3:10-18).

U - unconditional election. God, from eternity past, has chosen to save a great multitude of sinners, which no man can number (Romans 8:29-30; 9:11; Ephesians 1:4-6,11-12).

L - limited atonement. Also called a “particular redemption.” Christ took the judgment for the sin of the elect upon Himself and thereby paid for their lives with His death. In other words, He did not simply make salvation “possible,” He actually obtained it for those whom He had chosen (Matthew 1:21; John 10:11; 17:9; Acts 20:28; Romans 8:32; Ephesians 5:25).

I - irresistible grace. In his fallen state, man resists God’s love, but the grace of God working in his heart makes him desire what he had previously resisted. That is, God’s grace will not fail to accomplish its saving work in the elect (John 6:37,44; 10:16).

P - perseverance of the saints. God protects His saints from falling away; thus, salvation is eternal (John 10:27-29; Romans 8:29-30; Ephesians 1:3-14).

The necessity of evangelism. Reformed theology teaches that Christians are in the world to make a difference, spiritually through evangelism and socially through holy living and humanitarianism.

Other distinctives of Reformed theology generally include the observance of two sacraments (baptism and communion), a cessationist view of the spiritual gifts (the gifts are no longer extended to the church), and a non-dispensational view of Scripture. Held in high esteem by Reformed churches are the writings of John Calvin, John Knox, Ulrich Zwingli, and Martin Luther. The Westminster Confession embodies the theology of the Reformed tradition. Modern churches in the Reformed tradition include Presbyterian, Congregationalist, and some Baptist.

 

[StillGods]

thank you for your replies they are very helpful.

 

[Billy Evmur]

TULIP came later, the reformation took us back to the church fathers not the apostles.

 

[Mark Quayle]

No. It's very good. The bad is what non-reformed people make it out to be.

They will say it denies free will. If it denies free will, then they have a different definition for free will. Some reformed people deny there is such a thing as free will for this reason. Free will is by no means absolute. There can be only one sovereign. Reformed theology teaches that our decisions are real and have even eternal consequences.

I think the free will matter is at the core of the controversies over other tenets like limited atonement, irresistible grace and so on. Reformed theology, and particularly limited atonement, turn out to be completely biblical, and not by stretching or otherwise doing violence to the text of Scriptures.

Others say that conversion must be a matter of the will, to be real. Reformed theology teaches that if it is left up to the individual, they would never "accept Jesus". Reformed theology teaches that the whole work of the Gospel is the work of God. Man plays no part in his own salvation. Many non-reformed agree with that, but then say that while God did the whole work, in the end it is up to the individual to take hold of the gift of salvation. My personal opinion is that makes no sense, as part of salvation. True, the individual will take hold and will indeed persevere, but not of himself. His will is indeed consumingly involved in the changed heart, but it did not change his heart. A person receives, as a receptacle, the indwelling Spirit of God. This is the source of saving faith, not a decision made by a free will.

My will has many times over been shown to me to be frivolous, emotional, weak, and misled. My will is not what turned me over to God. God did that.

The same matter shows up in all other doctrines besides Salvation: God's sovereignty and work is pervasive, and rules everything. And I get to watch, and my heart finds itself forced inexorably to love God and to NEED holiness and obedience and knowledge of God. The many things I have been told that Reformed Theology leads to have not happened. It does not promote spiritual laziness, sloppiness, etc. God-in-me does not permit that.

But seeing the self-existent Creator of all things, who rightly should grind me under his heel, if I was only worthy of his notice, (which I am not), instead giving me mercy and love and tenderness and patience and strength and joy and particular attention, makes me fear him with the kind of fear that at least one rendition of Isaiah 8 brings to mind: "He is the one you are to fear....and he will be a sanctuary."

This is going to run long if I try to show the Scriptures behind all this, because they are passages, not verses out of context. Read some of the old writers; I particularly like John Owen, where you will see intense desire for God, and good reasoning for his view of the Gospel, and less dealing with salvation only than you might expect.

Reformed theology is all about who God is, and about pursuing God.

 

[Hazelelponi]

No it's not bad..

 

[Mark Quayle]

TULIP came later, the reformation took us back to the church fathers not the apostles.

Reformed Theology hails back to Scripture. It may be called Reformed because it descended from the Reformation, but it refers to that as a response to bad doctrine that the Reformation was a response to. We teach the sovereignty and work of God because the Bible teaches it --not because the Reformation taught it.

 

[Mark Quayle]

That's a pretty broad question. I don't agree with some of the tenets of reformed theology because I find them unbiblical. But, technically, guys like Wesley were still reformed, they just re formed again because they saw problems with certain reformed conclusions, such as limited atonement. I personally think there are extremes that are often gone to in churches that are unhealthy, like the reformed tend to over emphasize God controlling everything and some of the pentecostals and such seem to over emphasize man's ability to control his life.

Just as a "by the way", I know of more than one Charismatic church that has become very Reformed in their teaching and thinking, yet remains Charismatic. (Yes I know that isn't the same as Pentecostal).

Reformed Theology isn't really a denomination, or even a systematic theology, it is more simply a focusing of the thinking on the work of God, or an ascribing of the work of God upon all aspects of reality, including particularly his work upon humanity. Well, at least, that is one way to put it. Others put it much better. But it's late. Good night.

 

[Billy Evmur]

Reformed Theology hails back to Scripture. It may be called Reformed because it descended from the Reformation, but it refers to that as a response to bad doctrine that the Reformation was a response to. We teach the sovereignty and work of God because the Bible teaches it --not because the Reformation taught it.

I also believe in the sovereignty of God and totally reject Arminius. However wonderful the Reformation was still they harked back only to the church Fathers ...and Paul's predestiny and election is not the same as Calvin's.

What is stupid is Christians who reject Calvin's predestiny also reject Paul's...that is plain daft.

 

[hedrick]

The original definition could be misleading, in that not all theologies going back to the Reformation are considered Reformed. Here are the major streams going back to the Reformation:

• Reformed generally trace back to Calvin or Zwingli.
• Lutherans generally trace back to Luther
• The left wing continue today in the anabaptist denominations (e.g. Mennoites) and in some aspects of Baptists, etc.

There are other major streams within Protestantism, of course, e.g. those going back to Wesley, the Restoration, and Pentecostalism. The Baptists seem to be to be sort of a meld of Reformed and anabaptist.

There are two things to know about Reformed theology that many participants here don't know:

• It's not just about TULIP. Indeed Calvin, the father of Reformed Christianity, didn't teach L, and the whole thing wasn't as critical to his theology as many assume. For Calvin, the center of Christianity is what he calls the "mystical union" with Christ. Reformed theology has specific views on salvation history (that the OT and NT reflect a single covenant, albeit in slightly different forms), communion, baptism, etc.
• Not all modern Reformed are conservative. In the US, the largest Reformed bodies are mainline. There are two world-wide Reformed groups, one conservative and one corresponding roughly to what the US considers mainline. This means that not all Reformed today hold TULIP in its original form.

 

[bbbbbbb]

Every theology has its good and bad points, depending on how people establish their criteria regarding right and wrong. For the traditional Catholic, all Reformed theology is bad, but for most Reformed Christians, Reformed theology, although good to excellent, is not a simple matter of the theology written in stone by a single Reformer.

 

[Samantha Scott]

Reformed theology is the most biblical.

 

[StillGods]

thanks everyone.
i have joined a church and it has calvinist doctrine. i am new to this (never come across it before this church and i have spent time in many churches) so i appreciate all your posts as they have helped.
As i have been learning about Calvinism through research and conversations with people at the church i do have some reservations. i dont agree with some of it personally eg. i disagree with all 5 points of TULIP so i am a zero point Calvinist apparently!! i disagree with Armenian doctrine as well so i am not in that camp either! there are Bible verses that contradict each of them.
so i am not sure if i will stay in this church or not. i have nothing against the people its just if i fundamentally disagree with Calvinist doctrine why go there.
thanks again, all your responses have helped.

 

[msortwell]

". . . there are bible verses that contradict each of them." If I may, I would offer that there are bible verses that initially SEEM to contradict each of them. But reformed teachers encourage us to apply what they refer to as "the analogy of faith." In essence this simply means that the broad, clear teachings of scripture are often useful in encouraging us to grapple with some isolated verses, leading to an understanding of the isolated text that aligns with the broader teaching of God's word.

 

[StillGods]

". . . there are bible verses that contradict each of them." If I may, I would offer that there are bible verses that initially SEEM to contradict each of them. But reformed teachers encourage us to apply what they refer to as "the analogy of faith." In essence this simply means that the broad, clear teachings of scripture are often useful in encouraging us to grapple with some isolated verses, leading to an understanding of the isolated text that aligns with the broader teaching of God's word.

to me they do contradict though, like really obviously, so i dont see what the point is of having to stretch and twist scripture so much to make it fit a reformed belief system when if you just read the Bible without a reformed mindset it makes sense easily. this is not meant to offend i'm sorry i have hopefully not said this too bluntly.
thank you for replying

 

[Billy Evmur]

to me they do contradict though, like really obviously, so i dont see what the point is of having to stretch and twist scripture so much to make it fit a reformed belief system when if you just read the Bible without a reformed mindset it makes sense easily. this is not meant to offend i'm sorry i have hopefully not said this too bluntly.
thank you for replying

When you say Reformed you mean Calvin, I am reformed but I am not Calvinist. No scripture contradicts Predestiny or Election...only Calvin's version of it.

 

[StillGods]

When you say Reformed you mean Calvin, I am reformed but I am not Calvinist. No scripture contradicts Predestiny or Election...only Calvin's version of it.

yes sorry i did mean Calvinist. i thought reformed and Calvinist was the same to start with but the more i learn it is Calvinist i am talking about.
thanks for clarifying

 

[bbbbbbb]

to me they do contradict though, like really obviously, so i dont see what the point is of having to stretch and twist scripture so much to make it fit a reformed belief system when if you just read the Bible without a reformed mindset it makes sense easily. this is not meant to offend i'm sorry i have hopefully not said this too bluntly.
thank you for replying

If, in fact, scripture contradicts itself, it would be impossible to "just read the Bible without a reformed mindset (and) it makes sense easily". Contradictions never make sense, easily or otherwise.