Reformed Theology and the Body of Christ

[Theophilus Agapee]

Does Reformed theology teach that Christ's body is now in Heaven only?

 

[David Lamb]

Does Reformed theology teach that Christ's body is now in Heaven only?

The bible teaches that the resurrected Jesus ascended bodily to heaven, and will one day return from heaven. However He also promised to be with His people by His spirit.

 

[Theophilus Agapee]

The bible teaches that the resurrected Jesus ascended bodily to heaven, and will one day return from heaven. However He also promised to be with His people by His spirit.

What is Christ's "spirit"?

 

[David Lamb]

What is Christ's "spirit"?

I would say the Holy Spirit.

 

[Theophilus Agapee]

I would say the Holy Spirit.

So you mean the Person of the Spirit can be somewhere without the Persons of the Son and of the Father being there?

 

[David Lamb]

So you mean the Person of the Spirit can be somewhere without the Persons of the Son and of the Father being there?

Not really. I believe that Jesus is present with His people by means of the Holy Spirit. We cannot get our minds around our awesome Three-in-One God. There are times when one of the three is particularly in focus, but they are always connected. The only scriptural exception I can think of is when God the Father temporarily forsook God the Son when He was on the cross:

“And at the ninth hour Jesus cried out with a loud voice, saying, "Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani?" which is translated, "My God, My God, why have You forsaken Me?"” (Mr 15:34 NKJV)

 

[Theophilus Agapee]

Not really. I believe that Jesus is present with His people by means of the Holy Spirit. We cannot get our minds around our awesome Three-in-One God. There are times when one of the three is particularly in focus, but they are always connected.

So the Son is now present everywhere in Person? On earth also?

The only scriptural exception I can think of is when God the Father temporarily forsook God the Son when He was on the cross:

“And at the ninth hour Jesus cried out with a loud voice, saying, "Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani?" which is translated, "My God, My God, why have You forsaken Me?"” (Mr 15:34 NKJV)

So you think here there was a separation between the Father and the Son in the Trinity, and thus God changed?

 

[David Lamb]

So the Son is now present everywhere in Person? On earth also?

Certainly He promised to be with His followers:

“ lo, I am with you always, [even] to the end of the age." Amen.” (Mt 28:20 NKJV)

“"For where two or three are gathered together in My name, I am there in the midst of them."” (Mt 18:20 NKJV)

He isn't bodily present, but is present by His Spirit, the Holy Spirit.

So you think here there was a separation between the Father and the Son in the Trinity, and thus God changed?

It's not a matter of what I think, but what the bible teaches. The bible says that God cannot look upon sin:

“You are of purer eyes than to behold evil, And cannot look on wickedness. Why do You look on those who deal treacherously, And hold Your tongue when the wicked devours A person more righteous than he?” (Hab 1:13 NKJV)

Although Jesus Christ was sinless, we are told that on the cross he "became sin" for His people:

“For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.” (2Co 5:21 NKJV)

So it isn't God changing. God has always been too holy to look upon sin.

 

[Theophilus Agapee]

Certainly He promised to be with His followers:

“ lo, I am with you always, [even] to the end of the age." Amen.” (Mt 28:20 NKJV)

“"For where two or three are gathered together in My name, I am there in the midst of them."” (Mt 18:20 NKJV)

He isn't bodily present, but is present by His Spirit, the Holy Spirit.

So the Person of the Holy Spirit is present, but the Person of the Son is not present, right? The Person of the Son is only in Heaven now, right? This is the Reformed teaching?

It's not a matter of what I think, but what the bible teaches. The bible says that God cannot look upon sin:

“You are of purer eyes than to behold evil, And cannot look on wickedness. Why do You look on those who deal treacherously, And hold Your tongue when the wicked devours A person more righteous than he?” (Hab 1:13 NKJV)

Although Jesus Christ was sinless, we are told that on the cross he "became sin" for His people:

“For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.” (2Co 5:21 NKJV)

So it isn't God changing. God has always been too holy to look upon sin.

God is Trinity: The Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit. If the Son was separated from the Father, then God changed.

 

[David Lamb]

So the Person of the Holy Spirit is present, but the Person of the Son is not present, right? The Person of the Son is only in Heaven now, right? This is the Reformed teaching?

As I have said, He is bodily in heaven. He promised to be with His people on earth by His (Holy) Spirit.

God is Trinity: The Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit. If the Son was separated from the Son, then God changed.

No, God did not change. His plan to save sinners by sending His Son to bear the penalty for their sins was made before Creation.

 

[Theophilus Agapee]

As I have said, He is bodily in heaven. He promised to be with His people on earth by His (Holy) Spirit.

Does the expression "by His Spirit" mean "not in Person"?

No, God did not change. His plan to save sinners by sending His Son to bear the penalty for their sins was made before Creation.

Sorry, I had written by error "If the Son was separated from the Son". I edited it.

So the Son was indeed separated by nature from the Father? Not just legally as our Substitute? Is this the official teaching of the Reformed Church?

 

[David Lamb]

Does the expression "by His Spirit" mean "not in Person"?

In this context, not in His bodily Person.

Sorry, I had written by error "If the Son was separated from the Son". I edited it.

So the Son was indeed separated by nature from the Father? Not just legally as our Substitute? Is this the official teaching of the Reformed Church?

I am not sure what you mean by "separated by nature." Jesus Christ was still fully God and fully Man on the cross - that is His nature.

I don't believe Jesus was only legally the Substitute of those He saves, but the actual Substitute. "In my place condemned He stood," as the hymns says.

As far as I know, there is no denomination known as The Reformed Church. There are Reformed Baptists, Presbyterians, and others, so there is no such thing as an official teaching of the Reformed Church.

 

[Theophilus Agapee]

In this context, not in His bodily Person.

So He is present here in His bodiless Person, separated from His Human Nature? Only His Divine Nature is present here?

I am not sure what you mean by "separated by nature." Jesus Christ was still fully God and fully Man on the cross - that is His nature.

Can you, please, explain how the Son was separated from the Father on the cross? Two Persons of the Trinity got separated from Each Other?

I don't believe Jesus was only legally the Substitute of those He saves, but the actual Substitute. "In my place condemned He stood," as the hymns says.

Me, too. But "legally" does not contradict "actual". Did Christ become sin for us legally or actually?

As far as I know, there is no denomination known as The Reformed Church. There are Reformed Baptists, Presbyterians, and others, so there is no such thing as an official teaching of the Reformed Church.

Oh, I see. Thank you. So there is not one Reformed doctrine concerning Christology...

 

[David Lamb]

So He is present here in His bodiless Person, separated from His Human Nature? Only His Divine Nature is present here?

Yes. We cannot see His body, but we will do, either when He returns at His Second Coming, or when we see Him in heaven.

Can you, please, explain how the Son was separated from the Father on the cross? Two Persons of the Trinity got separated from Each Other?

I cannot explain how, because the bible doesn't explain how, but it records it happening, so that the Son cried out to the Father, "Why have You forsaken Me?"

Me, too. But "legally" does not contradict "actual". Did Christ become sin for us legally or actually?

I would say both. By His death He justifies (legal term) His people. But that justification is not only legal; it's real, actual.

Oh, I see. Thank you. So there is not one Reformed doctrine concerning Christology...

I am sure there are things about Christ that most if not all who hold Reformed doctrines believe, but I don't have enough detailed knowledge to be able to say for certain that there is not one Reformed doctrine concerning Christology. Sorry.

 

[Theophilus Agapee]

Yes. We cannot see His body, but we will do, either when He returns at His Second Coming, or when we see Him in heaven.

Yes what? His Person is bodiless here? Only His Divine Nature is here? His body is here, but it is invisible? Sorry, I couldn't understand your answer.

I cannot explain how, because the bible doesn't explain how, but it records it happening, so that the Son cried out to the Father, "Why have You forsaken Me?"

So it could be that the Person of the Son got separated from the Person of the Father? Is this possibility okay with the doctrine of the Trinity?

I would say both. By His death He justifies (legal term) His people. But that justification is not only legal; it's real, actual.

So Christ became an actual sin? He became sinful?

By the way, I guess I should stop asking you, because the purpose of this thread is to get the official Reformed teaching about these things, and you said there is no official Reformed teaching, or at least you don't know about it.

I am sure there are things about Christ that most if not all who hold Reformed doctrines believe, but I don't have enough detailed knowledge to be able to say for certain that there is not one Reformed doctrine concerning Christology. Sorry.

So I will wait for someone Reformed to answer me.

 

[David Lamb]

Yes what? His Person is bodiless here? Only His Divine Nature is here? His body is here, but it is invisible? Sorry, I couldn't understand your answer.

Sorry I wasn't clear. The first disciples witnessed Jesus ascend bodily to heaven. His resurrected body is in heaven now. Yet He promised to be with His followers, so He is here with them spiritually, not bodily.

So it could be that the Person of the Son got separated from the Person of the Father? Is this possibility okay with the doctrine of the Trinity?

So Christ became an actual sin? He became sinful?

He bore His people's sins on the cross, so not an actual sin. He certainly didn't become sinful. That verse which I quoted before:

“For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.” (2Co 5:21 NKJV)

is what theologians call "The Great Exchange." In order to make His people right with God, Jesus took their sin and its punishment on Himself, giving them His righteousness instead. So Jesus never sinned, but He voluntarily took on Himself the sins of His people.

By the way, I guess I should stop asking you, because the purpose of this thread is to get the official Reformed teaching about these things, and you said there is no official Reformed teaching, or at least you don't know about it.

So I will wait for someone Reformed to answer me.

Well, I am Reformed in doctrine. I think that most, if not all, Reformed Christians believe similarly to me about these things, but my knowledge isn't sufficient for me to be able to affirm dogmatically, "All Reformed Christians believe this."

 

[Jermayn]

Does Reformed theology teach that Christ's body is now in Heaven only?

Short answer: Yes.