Reformed & Charismatic?

[Canterbury Trail]

Do you think that it is possible to be both Reformed and Charismatic?

 

[Thaeoles]

Yes.

 

[Calvinist Dark Lord]

Do you think that it is possible to be both Reformed and Charismatic?

You'd have to first define the term Charismatic. It can mean a lot of things. Some of them are heretical.

 

[Nova Scotian Boy]

No. I believe that you can be a charismatic Calvinist. To be reformed is to subscribe to at least one of the Reformed confessions. The confessions teach cessation, so charismatics are not Reformed. This does not mean they are not brothers. I would choose them to work with any day. However I believe they do not fit the definition of reformed.

 

[Thaeoles]

I'm a semi-cessationist.

 

[Apologetic_Warrior]

Do you think that it is possible to be both Reformed and Charismatic?

I think it is possible to be Reformed and believe all of the gifts of the Spirit are still in operation today. The only question is compatibilizing a continuist view with Covenant Theology. The difficult part about it, is finding historical support, and dealing with the fact that so many brilliant Reformed believers were cessationists. As a Van Tillian, I must confess, it's not an issue I would desire to debate giants such as B.B. Warfield or Greg Bahnsen over. I must also confess, where I was once a convinced continuist, I am not as convinced these days, one of the major problems being the doctrine held by the majority of continuists and the fruit of such so called revivals as "The Toronto blessing".

If you're interested in examples, D.A. Carson and Wayne Grudem are two well known examples of "Charismatic Calvinists". Matt Slick owner of CARM (Christian Apologetics Research Ministry) last I knew is also a Charismatic Calvinist.

 

[Scottish Knight]

If we believe God is sovereign then He can choose to give whatever gifts He chooses in whatever point in time. He's not limited

 

[CalledOutOne]

No. I believe that you can be a charismatic Calvinist. To be reformed is to subscribe to at least one of the Reformed confessions. The confessions teach cessation, so charismatics are not Reformed. This does not mean they are not brothers. I would choose them to work with any day. However I believe they do not fit the definition of reformed.

I don't recall the Westminster teaching cessationism.

 

[Simon Peter]

Do you think that it is possible to be both Reformed and Charismatic?

There is a group of churches called Sovereign Grace Ministries that are Reformed and Charismatic.

Here's a link to their Statement of Faith:

What We Believe - Sovereign Grace Ministries

They have churches in - I believe - most US states, and I think at least some on other continents, including England and Wales.


peace,
Simon

 

[desmalia]

If you're interested in examples, D.A. Carson and Wayne Grudem are two well known examples of "Charismatic Calvinists". Matt Slick owner of CARM (Christian Apologetics Research Ministry) last I knew is also a Charismatic Calvinist.

You can add C.J. Mahaney, John Piper, and Sam Storms to that list as well. Though... I think that's to their own detriment. I respect these men and their teachings, but I believe they are off base with their charismatic leanings. Not something to divide over, but definitely something to be aware of. I think of Mark Driscoll with his so-called "visions from God" as a particular cautionary tale in that regard.

 

[Osage Bluestem]

I'm a cessationist.

 

[CalledOutOne]

I am Reformed, but I am not a cessationist.

I believe that the gifts are still here and that we must be extremely careful when discerning whether or not they are from God.

We must test the spirits.

 

[nobdysfool]

Yes, it's possible. I am one. I agree with Scottish Knight in post 7. A Sovereign God can do as He please and impart the Gifts as he sees fit, at any time, and in anyone. There is a lot of confusion as to the proper manifestations of the Gifts, much of it created by the Enemy, to try and limit the use of them. Such travesties as the "Toronto Blessing" and the like give all the gifts and manifestations of the Holy Spirit a bad name. They cannot be judged by such foolishness. Scripture is our guide, and I have yet to find anywhere in Scripture that states the the gifts have ceased already, as Jesus (the Perfect who is to come) has not come back yet. The important thing to remember is that they operate as God wills, not as we will. We cannot demand them. I have seen someone raised from the dead. I have seen angels (discerning of spirits). I have had a word of knowledge. I have had a word of wisdom. I have seen healings, on more than one occasion, and have experienced a couple myself.

Anyone who would say that "Oh, you're seeing the devil fake things", I would caution you, that is getting dangerously close to the unpardonable sin, which Jesus clearly defined as claiming that the works of the Holy Spirit are the works of the devil. Don't make that mistake. Far better to just be undecided, and remain neutral on the subject, than to do as some have done, railing against those who accept the gifts as operating today as being heretics and working the works of the devil. I would be very scared to say anything like that....

 

[nobdysfool]

I am Reformed, but I am not a cessationist.

I believe that the gifts are still here and that we must be extremely careful when discerning whether or not they are from God.

We must test the spirits.

Agreed!

 

[Apologetic_Warrior]

You can add C.J. Mahaney, John Piper, and Sam Storms to that list as well. Though... I think that's to their own detriment. I respect these men and their teachings, but I believe they are off base with their charismatic leanings. Not something to divide over, but definitely something to be aware of. I think of Mark Driscoll with his so-called "visions from God" as a particular cautionary tale in that regard.

I think the bottom line for me on the issue is that love is the greatest gift and should be emphasized over gifts of the Spirit, and also there should be order in the Church. When or if the gifts are in operation there should be edification of the Church. Personally I lean on the cautionary side, which probably has more to do with my background, of my past experiences in different Churches.

 

[Apologetic_Warrior]

Yes, it's possible. I am one. I agree with Scottish Knight in post 7. A Sovereign God can do as He please and impart the Gifts as he sees fit, at any time, and in anyone. There is a lot of confusion as to the proper manifestations of the Gifts, much of it created by the Enemy, to try and limit the use of them. Such travesties as the "Toronto Blessing" and the like give all the gifts and manifestations of the Holy Spirit a bad name. They cannot be judged by such foolishness. Scripture is our guide, and I have yet to find anywhere in Scripture that states the the gifts have ceased already, as Jesus (the Perfect who is to come) has not come back yet. The important thing to remember is that they operate as God wills, not as we will. We cannot demand them. I have seen someone raised from the dead. I have seen angels (discerning of spirits). I have had a word of knowledge. I have had a word of wisdom. I have seen healings, on more than one occasion, and have experienced a couple myself.

I can't help but think what a blessing it would be to have experienced the works of God you have experienced...my family (including on my dad's side) has given testimony many times of the workings of God in their lives (my grandpa almost died from sickness as a child, in a time when medical help was not so easy to come by, but God healed him, the way he told the story, he was deathly ill, but when God healed him, he started dancing!) and I cannot help but think great is the cloud of witnesses about me, Praise God!

Anyone who would say that "Oh, you're seeing the devil fake things", I would caution you, that is getting dangerously close to the unpardonable sin, which Jesus clearly defined as claiming that the works of the Holy Spirit are the works of the devil. Don't make that mistake. Far better to just be undecided, and remain neutral on the subject, than to do as some have done, railing against those who accept the gifts as operating today as being heretics and working the works of the devil. I would be very scared to say anything like that....

I agree, even though I interpret the unpardonable sin more as the sin of unbelief, which is at the heart of said sin.

 

[Eddie L]

I respect the way Sovereign Grace Ministries handles this in their services. It is nicely done, and gives no room for the excesses of, say, many older Church of God churches.

 

[gord44]

I believe that the gifts are still here and that we must be extremely careful when discerning whether or not they are from God.

We must test the spirits.

Indeed! If a church has strong leadership and theology the Spirit will only enhance the fruit they bear.

 

[nobdysfool]

I can't help but think what a blessing it would be to have experienced the works of God you have experienced...my family (including on my dad's side) has given testimony many times of the workings of God in their lives (my grandpa almost died from sickness as a child, in a time when medical help was not so easy to come by, but God healed him, the way he told the story, he was deathly ill, but when God healed him, he started dancing!) and I cannot help but think great is the cloud of witnesses about me, Praise God!



I agree, even though I interpret the unpardonable sin more as the sin of unbelief, which is at the heart of said sin.

Part of such things comes from an attitude of expectation. When things appear bleak, it's natural to hunker down, and just try to tough your way through it, but if you can cultivate an attitude of expectation, you open the door for God to work in amazing ways, because your heart is open to receive it. Adversity then becomes opportunity. We trust in God for our salvation, but He is concerned about our everyday lives, too. One verse of Scripture that is a huge comfort to me when I'm tempted to despair, is this: "I was young, and now I am old, but I have never seen the righteous forsaken, nor His seed begging bread." Let that one sink into your spirit, it will change the way you look at adversity and hard times. We are righteous in Christ, so that word applies to us. We are His seed, so that word applies to us!

We trust in God for salvation, why not trust Him to provide what we need in the here and now? Find the promises in the Word that apply to your situation, and rely on them. Remember, God "hastens His word to perform it". If you remind God in prayer of what His Word says about your situation, do so expecting Him to answer! God doesn't forget anything, but He says "Put Me in remembrance...". That's not for His benefit, it's for yours! Why? Because when you meditate on His Word, and pray His Word back to Him, your focus is on Him, not your circumstances! God loves that! That's what faith is!

Try this: Ask God to open your eyes to see all the little things He does for you every day. Do so expecting Him to show you those things. He will! You will be amazed at what you see, and become aware of. And it will bless your socks off!

I'm no one special. I just have an attitude of expectation. I expect God to work in my life. I ask Him every day to open my eyes to His workings. I look for it! and, I am not disappointed. I think He loves it when we say to Him, "Daddy, I want to see what you do."

 

[Publius]

Do you think that it is possible to be both Reformed and Charismatic?

Sure. Just because you're right in one area of theology doesn't mean you can't be wrong in another.

John Piper and Wayne Grudem are two Reformed theologians who have fallen for charismatic theology.