reformed Baptist

[grandma dolittle]

Excuse me, but what is a reformed Baptist????

 

[Keachian]

A Baptist group or person who holds to Reformed/Calvinistic soteriology, most churches in this group use the 1689 Lodon Baptist Confession as a subordinate standard to scripture (that is they believe that it is a good and accurate expression of what the Bible teaches, but if they can be convinced through scripture that it errs they will take scripture)

 

[AndOne]

Well said prong monk - I am one.

Some well known ones would be John Piper, Al Moehler, and James White to name a few.

 

[MrJim]

Very conservative Presbyterians that baptize believers instead of babies and you'd be very close . I was Reformed Baptist for many years and had far more in common with Presbys than other baptists, especially when came to historical reading material.

 

[OzSpen]

A Baptist group or person who holds to Reformed/Calvinistic soteriology, most churches in this group use the 1689 Lodon Baptist Confession as a subordinate standard to scripture (that is they believe that it is a good and accurate expression of what the Bible teaches, but if they can be convinced through scripture that it errs they will take scripture)

pogmonk,

You have given an incomplete understanding by giving only one part of the definition as Reformed Arminians also are part of the Baptist and Reformed tradition. See: 'What is Reformation Arminianism?'

Oz

 

[Keachian]

pogmonk,

You have given an incomplete understanding by giving only one part of the definition as Reformed Arminians also are part of the Baptist and Reformed tradition. See: 'What is Reformation Arminianism?'

Oz

While I would agree that there is a difference between Classical Arminianism and Wesleyan Arminianism, neither view is representative of the Reformed Baptist belief which differentiates itself from mainline Baptists with a firm stance on Soteriology and Strict Baptists by keeping with traditional Baptist Church Polity rather than opting for a Congregationalist Polity.

 

[OzSpen]

While I would agree that there is a difference between Classical Arminianism and Wesleyan Arminianism, neither view is representative of the Reformed Baptist belief which differentiates itself from mainline Baptists with a firm stance on Soteriology and Strict Baptists by keeping with traditional Baptist Church Polity rather than opting for a Congregationalist Polity.

That might be so for Baptists in your country but it is not so for Baptists Down Under. Reformed Arminians are represented in the Baptist tradition. I urge you not to generalise and only to include the kind of Reformed Baptists that support your Reformed view.

Reformed Arminians are part of the Reformed Baptist tradition.

Oz

 

[Keachian]

That might be so for Baptists in your country but it is not so for Baptists Down Under.

We're in the same country Spence, probably even in the same union if you are a part of a church in the BUA. There is no Reformed Baptist Union in Australia as far as I am aware, so yes there are Baptists who are Calvinist, Classic Arminian and Wesleyan Arminian (a large portion of which at least in my church are refugees from the UCA) yet this doesn't make the BUA Reformed, we can trace our roots back to the Reformation, back to the Separatists and Anabaptists in England, that is part of what makes us Baptists, it doesn't make us Reformed.

Reformed Arminians are represented in the Baptist tradition. I urge you not to generalise and only to include the kind of Reformed Baptists that support your Reformed view.

I agree with you that there are Classic Arminians in the Baptist tradition as a whole, but we're talking about a subtradition that neither of us are in if only because the union that we are a part of is a mainline Baptist union probably analogous to the SBC or ABA. There to my knowledge two non-mainline unions in Australia, both of them are 7th-day Baptist Unions. What we are talking about are groups such as the Association of Reformed Baptist Churches or Sovereign Grace Baptist Churches in America or the Grace Baptist Assembly in England.

Reformed Arminians are part of the Reformed Baptist tradition.

Can you show me a Reformed Baptist confession of faith that is Arminian?

 

[OzSpen]

We're in the same country Spence, probably even in the same union if you are a part of a church in the BUA. There is no Reformed Baptist Union in Australia as far as I am aware, so yes there are Baptists who are Calvinist, Classic Arminian and Wesleyan Arminian (a large portion of which at least in my church are refugees from the UCA) yet this doesn't make the BUA Reformed, we can trace our roots back to the Reformation, back to the Separatists and Anabaptists in England, that is part of what makes us Baptists, it doesn't make us Reformed.

I agree with you that there are Classic Arminians in the Baptist tradition as a whole, but we're talking about a subtradition that neither of us are in if only because the union that we are a part of is a mainline Baptist union probably analogous to the SBC or ABA. There to my knowledge two non-mainline unions in Australia, both of them are 7th-day Baptist Unions. What we are talking about are groups such as the Association of Reformed Baptist Churches or Sovereign Grace Baptist Churches in America or the Grace Baptist Assembly in England.

Can you show me a Reformed Baptist confession of faith that is Arminian?

The question that started this thread was:

Excuse me, but what is a reformed Baptist????

It did not ask: What is a Reformed Baptist confession of faith?

You seem to have developed your answer according to a Reformed Baptist sub-tradition and a Reformed Baptist confession of faith. That is not the question that was asked.

I am a Reformed Baptist but am a Reformed Arminian in beliefs.

Oz

 

[Keachian]

The question that started this thread was:

It did not ask: What is a Reformed Baptist confession of faith?

You seem to have developed your answer according to a Reformed Baptist sub-tradition and a Reformed Baptist confession of faith. That is not the question that was asked.

I am a Reformed Baptist but am a Reformed Arminian in beliefs.

Oz

Looking further into the current climate of Arminianism there is a trend to use the term Reformed to talk about the Remonstrant stance, my objection is that this is a new use of the term and causes confusion rather than clarity, there are plenty of ways you can differentiate your views from Wesleyan Arminianism that doesn't cause confusion and doesn't redefine theological words and blurring two very distinct viewpoints

 

[AndOne]

Looking further into the current climate of Arminianism there is a trend to use the term Reformed to talk about the Remonstrant stance, my objection is that this is a new use of the term and causes confusion rather than clarity, there are plenty of ways you can differentiate your views from Wesleyan Arminianism that doesn't cause confusion and doesn't redefine theological words and blurring two very distinct viewpoints

We have this problem on our side of the pond as well. Some even go to the extreme of calling themselves moderate calvinists - which is nothing more than an arminian who believes in eternal security.

In my part of the country (the south) there is a mainline baptist denom that calls themselves Freewill Baptists and are bold in their arminian proclomation to the point of including the five articles of remonstrance in their essential doctrines of the faith. Though I disagree with them I respect the fact that they don't confuse the situation by trying to pass themselves off as reformed.

 

[crimsonleaf]

I'm as Reformed Baptist, and I know of no Arminian Reformed Baptists in England. We're all Calvinist.

 

[grandma dolittle]

I had done research on Reformed Baptist,General Baptist, Arminian, Calvanist,etc. and I think I will stay with my Free Will Baptist, although they are similar to General Baptist with Arminian beliefs.

I am confortable in my beliefs and if something does not agree with the Scriptures, then I will not believe it as I believe the scriptures are God's word to us.

Thank you for your help.

 

[OzSpen]

Looking further into the current climate of Arminianism there is a trend to use the term Reformed to talk about the Remonstrant stance, my objection is that this is a new use of the term and causes confusion rather than clarity, there are plenty of ways you can differentiate your views from Wesleyan Arminianism that doesn't cause confusion and doesn't redefine theological words and blurring two very distinct viewpoints

From these comments, it seems that you do not understand the historical background of Jacob Arminius, the Dutch Reformed theologian.

Who are the Remonstrants? They were Dutch Reformed Calvinists who were concerned about the Calvinistic emphasis that God forced his grace on sinners so that they could not resist it. While they have received the reputation of being Arminians, it is important to understand that they were Calvinists who objected to certain emphases of Calvinism.

Jacob Arminius was a Dutch Reformed theologian in the 16th century who was professor of theology at the University of Leiden (Leyden) and was Reformed until his dying day.

‘In 1588, the government of Amsterdam, Holland, Arminius' native country, called him home [from Geneva were he was studying under Calvin’s son-in-law, Beza] and appointed him preacher of the Dutch Reformed church there’ (About Christianity).

This biography of Jacob Arminius in CCEL states: 'Jacobus Arminius (aka Jacob Arminius, James Arminius, and his Dutch name Jacob Harmenszoon) was a Dutch theologian, best known as the founder of the anti-Calvinistic school in Reformed Protestant theology, thereby lending his name to a movement which resisted some of the tenets of Calvinism – Arminianism’ (CCEL).

Reformed is not the exclusive designation given to Calvinists. The history of Arminianism has its roots in Reformed theology. It is a Reformed position, growing out of the Reformation in the Dutch Reformed Church of the Netherlands.

Oz

 

[OzSpen]

I'm as Reformed Baptist, and I know of no Arminian Reformed Baptists in England. We're all Calvinist.

So you know of no Arminians who are Classical Arminians of the Jacob Arminius kind in any Baptist churches. Reformed Arminians are Classical Arminians? Do you know all the people in all the Baptist churches in the UK?

There are Classical/Reformed Arminians throughout Baptist churches in Australia.

Oz

 

[crimsonleaf]

So you know of no Arminians who are Classical Arminians of the Jacob Arminius kind in any Baptist churches. Reformed Arminians are Classical Arminians? Do you know all the people in all the Baptist churches in the UK?

There are Classical/Reformed Arminians throughout Baptist churches in Australia.

Oz

Well whooopeedoo for Australia. I was talking about England.

Do I know everyone in all the Baptist churches in the UK? Well yes, as it happens I do. There's a bloke named Gilbert Chutney who goes to a Reformed Baptist church in the Lower Slaughters. He thinks he's Arminian, but as he also thinks he's the queen of Fulham I discounted him. (Hint - don't bother Googling him).

Wikipedia (at least I attribute my source in this instance) says simply:

Reformed Baptists (sometimes known as Calvinistic Baptists[1]) are Baptists that hold to a Calvinist soteriology.[2] They can trace their history through the early modern Particular Baptists of England. The first Reformed Baptist church was formed in the 1630s.[1] The 1689 Baptist Confession of Faith was written along Reformed Baptist lines.[1]

I genuinely know of no Reformed Baptist Church over here which differs from the above. But then, I've said that once already. There may be the odd one or two who have snuck in with their own deviation from the norm, but then we have people here who don't believe you need to follow Jesus Christ to be a Christian...

 

[grandma dolittle]

I'm as Reformed Baptist, and I know of no Arminian Reformed Baptists in England. We're all Calvinist.

Your joke about the amish isn't funny... not here in the USA.

 

[crimsonleaf]

Your joke about the amish isn't funny... not here in the USA.

According to my PMs not everyone in the US agrees with you.

 

[grandma dolittle]

According to my PMs not everyone in the US agrees with you.

After the shootings of 6 little amish girls, anyone who thinks you are funny is sick!!!!

 

[crimsonleaf]

After the shootings of 6 little amish girls, anyone who thinks you are funny is sick!!!!

Just for clarity, the line refers to actions performed BY the Amish, not against them.

It does not refer to the shootings of any Amish, adult or children.

But, because there are clearly people who are not gifted with the normal powers of comprehension, I'll change it. I hope you understand the next one.