Reformation Stance on Israel?

[CalledOutOne]

What are your thoughts on (physical) Israel as a Reformed Christian?

 

[JM]

What are your thoughts on (physical) Israel as a Reformed Christian?

I don't think it is clear cut. For a better understanding have a look at Luther and Calvin's commentaries on relevant passages.

 

[Calvinist Dark Lord]

What are your thoughts on (physical) Israel as a Reformed Christian?

As an American Reformed Christian of Scottish descent, i really don't think of the Physical nation of Israel very much.

i prefer to mind my own business and not interfere in the affairs of other nations which are of no concern to the security or well being of my country.

 

[JustAsIam77]

What are your thoughts on (physical) Israel as a Reformed Christian?

After 5000 years the physical nation of Israel was restored in 1948. The Muslim Arabs tried to conquer that nation again in 1967 and was defeated by Israel, somethings up, me thinks God will protect them from now until infinity.

 

[General Mung Beans]

On a secular level, I consider Israel to be a good ally of America and a bastion of liberty and prosperity in a region sorely lacking in it but no different in that respect from say South Korea or Japan.

 

[Osage Bluestem]

According to Galatians 3 Israel = Christians. This is not replacement but revelation that election is in Christ.

So the secular nation called Israel is only that. They are only children of the promise if they believe in Christ.

 

[JM]

The nation of Israel is a secular nation whose majority religion is pagan, they reject Christ and are unbelievers.

 

[RisingSpirit]

I look at Jerry Falwel as an Zionist. He promotes war. In other words, Some churches are into Zionism or help promote securty in Isreal cause it had historical facts to it. So some boring arminian churches are actually supporting and promoting evil to help kill the counties around Israel. I don't think it's fair for Israel to take other lands while America condemns other countries for stealing lands. Go Figure.

To me, the Second Coming in 70 ad is easier to deal with. It's time to move on and worship without being such a Zionist.

 

[cygnusx1]

The nation of Israel is a secular nation whose majority religion is pagan, they reject Christ and are unbelievers.

As do all the nations !


This state is nothing new , and Gods promises to "that nation" are unchangeable .

In other words the focus should not be on "those bad old Jews" (how easy anti-semetism hangs about) but how good God is towards a chosen race .

 

[JM]

You can be a Calvinist and not Reformed.

 

[RisingSpirit]

You can be a Calvinist and not Reformed.

How are they different?

 

[JM]

How are they different?

Calvinism is used to describe soteriology (the 5 points) and Reformed is used to describe soteriology, covenant theology and often baptism. Reformed theology is much more then Calvinism.

cyg was quick with a remark about antisemitism so my reply was to place emphasis on the Reformed idea that in the church, the covenants promises to Israel, are fulfilled.

 

[cygnusx1]

Reformation Stance on Israel?




The best book around (that I have seen) is Ian Murrays "The Puritan Hope" , that just about covers the question on the "Reformed" view of The Jewish question with quotations from scores of leading Puritan scholars.


http://books.google.co.uk/books/about/Puritan_Hope.html?id=G_spKwAACAAJ&redir_esc=y

http://www.amazon.com/Puritan-Hope-Iain-H-Murray/dp/085151247X

 

[JM]

What are your thoughts on (physical) Israel as a Reformed Christian?

Please keep in mind that Reformed Christians DO NOT believe Israel can remain tied to the Old Covenant trappings, ceremonies, etc. Most evangelicals today believe that Israel will remain ethnic Israel and continue in the Old Covenant, Reformed Christians believe the Old Covenant is done away with and fulfilled in Christ and the Church. A remnant will be called out of ethnic Israel and into God's wondrous Church.

 

[RisingSpirit]

Please keep in mind that Reformed Christians DO NOT believe Israel can remain tied to the Old Covenant trappings, ceremonies, etc. Most evangelicals today believe that Israel will remain ethnic Israel and continue in the Old Covenant, Reformed Christians believe the Old Covenant is done away with and fulfilled in Christ and the Church. A remnant will be called out of ethnic Israel and into God's wondrous Church.

Do the Reformed Baptist beleive that the Second Coming happened in 70ad?

 

[JM]

Do the Reformed Baptist beleive that the Second Coming happened in 70ad?

Too board of a question. Some do, others do not.

 

[bsd058]

I think Paul's stance in Romans 9-11 was that God's promises did not apply to national Israel, but spiritual Israel (of which we and Jewish believers are). Therefore God's promises will be fulfilled, just not in the way originally thought of by national Israel. God is able to graft them back in (make them believers), but Paul makes it very clear that all of Israel will be saved. And this wouldn't make any sense unless "all of Israel" were spiritual Israel/believers. Since we know at least one Israelite of descent was lost (Judas).

 

[cygnusx1]

I think Paul's stance in Romans 9-11 was that God's promises did not apply to national Israel, but spiritual Israel (of which we and Jewish believers are). Therefore God's promises will be fulfilled, just not in the way originally thought of by national Israel. God is able to graft them back in (make them believers), but Paul makes it very clear that all of Israel will be saved. And this wouldn't make any sense unless "all of Israel" were spiritual Israel/believers. Since we know at least one Israelite of descent was lost (Judas).

Romans 9-11


we know all believers shall be saved , Paul wasn't dealing with the security of salvation for believers but the covenant God made with Israel (of who we Gentiles are grafted in against nature ) , thus "all Israel" is just a generalisation meaning many Israelites shall be saved because God is Faithful to His promises and God hardened the covenant people only temporarily for a purpose .... to bring in others .

Bottom line , spiritualising Romans 11 doesn't exegete but empties the passage of meaning.

 

[cygnusx1]

The future is bright

The Puritans and the Promises

 

[twin1954]

Romans 9-11


we know all believers shall be saved , Paul wasn't dealing with the security of salvation for believers but the covenant God made with Israel (of who we Gentiles are grafted in against nature ) , thus "all Israel" is just a generalisation meaning many Israelites shall be saved because God is Faithful to His promises and God hardened the covenant people only temporarily for a purpose .... to bring in others .

Bottom line , spiritualising Romans 11 doesn't exegete but empties the passage of meaning.

Actually it isn't spiritualizing. That is an easy accusaction leveled without any evidence. To understand the passage as absolutely literal is to make the Scriptures as a whole make no sense. Plus the fact that Paul makes it very clear that Israel is a spiritual nation not a physical one.