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Reformation 500th Anniversary!

JM

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What's everyone reading for the 500th anniversary? Anything special going on in your neck of the woods?

Yours in the Lord,

Jay to the Ehm
 

JM

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Endeavourer

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I visited the Church of the Holy Spirit in Heidelberg where the Catechism was said to have been authored.

I have to admit to being very shocked at all of the graven images in the church, and am quite curious if the interior today is at all similar to how it was when the Catechism was drawn up.
 
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BBAS 64

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JM

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Reading Table Talks daily and thinking about subscribing. Haven't ordered any new books lately but hope that'll change soon.

Recommendations needed - looking for books marking the Reformation.

Thanks.
 
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FireDragon76

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I visited the Church of the Holy Spirit in Heidelberg where the Catechism was said to have been authored.

I have to admit to being very shocked at all of the graven images in the church, and am quite curious if the interior today is at all similar to how it was when the Catechism was drawn up.

European reformed churches are not as solidified around "Calvinism" as in the US or the UK - in reality the Reformed movement is far more variagated than simply the writings of John Calvin.

Of course we as Lutherans are having alot of celebrations and commemorations. I attended a joint Catholic-Lutheran commemoration several months ago at the local Catholic shrine here in Orlando.
 
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JM

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European reformed churches are not as solidified around "Calvinism" as in the US or the UK - in reality the Reformed movement is far more variagated than simply the writings of John Calvin.

Of course we as Lutherans are having alot of celebrations and commemorations. I attended a joint Catholic-Lutheran commemoration several months ago at the local Catholic shrine here in Orlando.

Yeah, I understand the point about the UK not being solidified around Calvinism...or anything really. The Marxist philosophy of the deconstruction of society has really damaged Christianity in Europe. What I don't understand is how Lutherans can have joint "celebrations" with Roman Catholics.

Maybe the two are not that different?
 
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FireDragon76

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It has nothing to do with modernist deconstruction, it's just as historical fact that the European Reformed church had more voices than simply Calvin. In some cases the voices were influential in their own right (Bullinger, Bucer, etc.). Calvin was the intellectual heavyweight of the Swiss Reformed church, but the Reformed were above all a confessional movement that engaged in synodical activity with many voices, and Calvin did not always have the most influence.

Lutherans and Catholics shared a prayer service. We recognized what we have in common. Jesus is not Catholic or Protestant.

We are keeping our celebrations of the Reformation low key. We Lutherans are actually far more focused on Jesus than Luther or the Reformation. We are thankful for Luther for recovering the clarity of the Gospel message in a difficult time, but we do not accept everything of Luther or Protestants uncritically.
 
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JM

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It has nothing to do with modernist deconstruction,

Debatable.

it's just as historical fact that the European Reformed church had more voices than simply Calvin. In some cases the voices were influential in their own right (Bullinger, Bucer, etc.). Calvin was the intellectual heavyweight of the Swiss Reformed church, but the Reformed were above all a confessional movement that engaged in synodical activity with many voices, and Calvin did not always have the most influence.

Didn't disagree on any of the above and not sure why it was restated. My point took into consideration the last 150 years of European history that's all.

Lutherans and Catholics shared a prayer service. We recognized what we have in common. Jesus is not Catholic or Protestant.

The Gospel is the issue and was recognized by the Reformers, the Confessions and the heirs of the Reformation as being the issue. The Gospel according to Rome is fundamentally different from the Gospel preached by the Reformers, it's a different theology and way to think about God, at least that's the Reformed view.

We are keeping our celebrations of the Reformation low key. We Lutherans are actually far more focused on Jesus than Luther or the Reformation.

More focused on ecumenism than Jesus especially since you've admitted that distinctions should be downplayed so you can focus on just getting along.

We are thankful for Luther for recovering the clarity of the Gospel message in a difficult time, but we do not accept everything of Luther or Protestants uncritically.

I wouldn't say thankful, more like forgetful...of what was done during the Reformation.
 
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FireDragon76

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Different ideas about God are not necessarily mutually exclusive. Yes, this might drift into "postmodernism", but I happen to think many of the insights brought about in modern philosophy are not incorrect.

"Getting along" is about dealing in charity with our neighbors, to not misrepresent their beliefs and to understand them in the best possible light, and so on. All stuff drawn from the Decalogue as understood within our tradition.
 
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JM

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Different ideas about God are not necessarily mutually exclusive. Yes, this might drift into "postmodernism", but I happen to think many of the insights brought about in modern philosophy are not incorrect.

"Getting along" is about dealing in charity with our neighbors, to not misrepresent their beliefs and to understand them in the best possible light, and so on. All stuff drawn from the Decalogue as understood within our tradition.

A little bit of overreach on your part when drawing from the Reformed Catechisms/Confessions. We still maintain that ecumenism with Rome, who still maintain the anathemas of Trent against all Protestants and who still has "that man of sin" as head of their communion, is unacceptable.

a·nath·e·ma:

a formal curse by a pope or a council of the Church, excommunicating a person or denouncing a doctrine.
synonyms: an abomination, an outrage, an abhorrence, a disgrace, an evil, a bane, a bugbear, a bête noire;
adjectivesabhorrent, hateful, repugnant, odious, repellent, offensive
"the idea of a poem as a mere exercise is anathema to me"​

CANON 9: "If any one saith, that by faith alone the impious is justified; in such wise as to mean, that nothing else is required to co-operate in order to the obtaining the grace of Justification, and that it is not in any way necessary, that he be prepared and disposed by the movement of his own will; let him be anathema."

CANON 12: "If any one shall say that justifying faith is nothing else than confidence in the divine mercy pardoning sins for Christ's sake, or that it is that confidence alone by which we are justified...let him be accursed"

Canon 14: "If any one saith, that man is truly absolved from his sins and justified, because that he assuredly believed himself absolved and justified; or, that no one is truly justified but he who believes himself justified; and that, by this faith alone, absolution and justification are effected; let him be anathema."

Canon 23: "lf any one saith, that a man once justified can sin no more, nor lose grace, and that therefore he that falls and sins was never truly justified; or, on the other hand, that he is able, during his whole life, to avoid all sins, even those that are venial, - except by a special privilege from God, as the Church holds in regard of the Blessed Virgin; let him be anathema."

Canon 24: "If any one saith, that the justice received is not preserved and also increased before God through good works; but that the said works are merely the fruits and signs of Justification obtained, but not a cause of the increase thereof; let him be anathema."

Canon 30: "If any one saith, that, after the grace of Justification has been received, to every penitent sinner the guilt is remitted, and the debt of eternal punishment is blotted out in such wise, that there remains not any debt of temporal punishment to be discharged either in this world, or in the next in Purgatory, before the entrance to the kingdom of heaven can be opened (to him); let him be anathema."

Canon 33: "If any one saith, that, by the Catholic doctrine touching Justification, by this holy Synod inset forth in this present decree, the glory of God, or the merits of our Lord Jesus Christ are in any way derogated from, and not rather that the truth of our faith, and the glory in fine of God and of Jesus Christ are rendered (more) illustrious; let him be anathema.

If the anathemas do not apply to you then by all means celebrate with Rome prayers or whatever.

Chapter 26: Of the Church

4. The Lord Jesus Christ is the Head of the church, in whom, by the appointment of the Father, all power for the calling, institution, order or government of the church, is invested in a supreme and sovereign manner; neither can the Pope of Rome in any sense be head thereof, but is that antichrist, that man of sin, and son of perdition, that exalteth himself in the church against Christ, and all that is called God; whom the Lord shall destroy with the brightness of his coming. ( Colossians 1:18; Matthew 28:18-20; Ephesians 4:11, 12; 2 Thessalonians 2:2-9 )

"…by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things? And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time. For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way." 2 Thessalonians 2:3-7

Thomas Manton: It is a point very necessary to admonish and warn the faithful, that they be not circumvented with these delusions, and be found in the opposite state to Christ Jesus, and the interests of his kingdom. God hath blown his trumpet: Rev. xviii. 4, ‘Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues;’ God calleth his people out of spiritual Babylon; it is dangerous and unsafe being there. If we would escape Babylon’s punishments we must escape her sins, not live in that communion and society where there are such temptations to idolatry and other detestable enormities. It is disputable whether the errors of Popery be damnable, or there be any possibility of salvation in that religion. Some deny all possibility; others, abating from the rigour of that opinion, assert a very great difficulty: 1 Cor. iii. 13, ‘Saved as by fire;’ if so much Christianity left as to save them, it is with much ado. But the question is not about our benefit, but our duty; not whether possibly we may be saved? but what is the way the Lord will have us to walk in? And if there were possibility or probability of salvation in the way, in the general, yet there is very little or none for them that live in a known sin, and especially in a sin of such a dangerous nature as abetting an opposite faction to Christ, such as is that of Antichrist.[end quote]

Until Rome repents and retracts its anathemas Protestants should avoid ecumenism with Rome.

Yours in the Lord,

jm
 
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TheOldWays

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Different ideas about God are not necessarily mutually exclusive. Yes, this might drift into "postmodernism", but I happen to think many of the insights brought about in modern philosophy are not incorrect.

"Getting along" is about dealing in charity with our neighbors, to not misrepresent their beliefs and to understand them in the best possible light, and so on. All stuff drawn from the Decalogue as understood within our tradition.

I applaud your view. Definitely the harder path in Christian terms. Easy to choose a side and look at how wrong others are and how right you believe you are. Much harder to choose a side and then still try and be charitable towards those you disagree with and engage with them...as Jesus would have. Well done.
 
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