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I cant post photos or links yet so please take the time to look at these photos, they had a profound affect on me. I realise they are famous and many of you will have seen them already, but for those who havnt.....

' Pale blue dot voyager 1' photo google image it it




This photo was taken by Voyager 1, as it left our solar system.

Look again at that dot. That's here, that's home, that's us. On it everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every "superstar," every "supreme leader," every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there – on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam.
The Earth is a very small stage in a vast cosmic arena. Think of the rivers of blood spilled by all those generals and emperors so that, in glory and triumph, they could become the momentary masters of a fraction of a dot. Think of the endless cruelties visited by the inhabitants of one corner of this pixel on the scarcely distinguishable inhabitants of some other corner, how frequent their misunderstandings, how eager they are to kill one another, how fervent their hatreds.

Our posturings, our imagined self-importance, the delusion that we have some privileged position in the Universe, are challenged by this point of pale light. Our planet is a lonely speck in the great enveloping cosmic dark. In our obscurity, in all this vastness, there is no hint that help will come from elsewhere to save us from ourselves.

The Earth is the only world known so far to harbor life. There is nowhere else, at least in the near future, to which our species could migrate. Visit, yes. Settle, not yet. Like it or not, for the moment the Earth is where we make our stand.

It has been said that astronomy is a humbling and character-building experience. There is perhaps no better demonstration of the folly of human conceits than this distant image of our tiny world. To me, it underscores our responsibility to deal more kindly with one another, and to preserve and cherish the pale blue dot, the only home we've ever known.

-Carl Sagan


Carl Sagan was not a Christian. However there are so many aspects of this speech that indicate he had so much more of an idea of what it is to be Christian than many....Christians. A far more solid grasp than I have on how small we are, how humble we should be. How the worlds violence and oppression is so insignificant compared to the universe that god created.

How often do we find ourselves looking at people of no faith or different faith and think wow, s/he is a better christian than me?

How often do we find ourselves looking at photos like this:

'Earth rise apollo 8' photo....google image it.


And thinking how little we appreciate the gift we have been given.


No matter who or what we worship, whether or not we are given dominion over earth to take care of it, or see ourselves as one with earth. We all have something in common, we of all faiths.

Yet we have a tendency to so easily forget what we have in common, and ironically, that is the same tendency which will destroy that which we do have in common.
 
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SithDoughnut

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Here are the pictures you mentioned. It might make things easier to have them here.

Pale Blue Dot:
earth-pale-blue-dot.jpg


Earthrise:
earthrise.gif


We're tiny and relatively insignificant if you take the entire universe into account. If the human race died the universe would continue as if nothing happened. Whether you take that to be depressing or not is up to you, personally I find it awe-inspiring.
 
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Penumbra

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I cant post photos or links yet so please take the time to look at these photos, they had a profound affect on me. I realise they are famous and many of you will have seen them already, but for those who havnt.....

' Pale blue dot voyager 1' photo google image it it




This photo was taken by Voyager 1, as it left our solar system.

Look again at that dot. That's here, that's home, that's us. On it everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every "superstar," every "supreme leader," every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there – on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam.
The Earth is a very small stage in a vast cosmic arena. Think of the rivers of blood spilled by all those generals and emperors so that, in glory and triumph, they could become the momentary masters of a fraction of a dot. Think of the endless cruelties visited by the inhabitants of one corner of this pixel on the scarcely distinguishable inhabitants of some other corner, how frequent their misunderstandings, how eager they are to kill one another, how fervent their hatreds.

Our posturings, our imagined self-importance, the delusion that we have some privileged position in the Universe, are challenged by this point of pale light. Our planet is a lonely speck in the great enveloping cosmic dark. In our obscurity, in all this vastness, there is no hint that help will come from elsewhere to save us from ourselves.

The Earth is the only world known so far to harbor life. There is nowhere else, at least in the near future, to which our species could migrate. Visit, yes. Settle, not yet. Like it or not, for the moment the Earth is where we make our stand.

It has been said that astronomy is a humbling and character-building experience. There is perhaps no better demonstration of the folly of human conceits than this distant image of our tiny world. To me, it underscores our responsibility to deal more kindly with one another, and to preserve and cherish the pale blue dot, the only home we've ever known.

-Carl Sagan


Carl Sagan was not a Christian. However there are so many aspects of this speech that indicate he had so much more of an idea of what it is to be Christian than many....Christians. A far more solid grasp than I have on how small we are, how humble we should be. How the worlds violence and oppression is so insignificant compared to the universe that god created.

How often do we find ourselves looking at people of no faith or different faith and think wow, s/he is a better christian than me?

How often do we find ourselves looking at photos like this:

'Earth rise apollo 8' photo....google image it.


And thinking how little we appreciate the gift we have been given.


No matter who or what we worship, whether or not we are given dominion over earth to take care of it, or see ourselves as one with earth. We all have something in common, we of all faiths.

Yet we have a tendency to so easily forget what we have in common, and ironically, that is the same tendency which will destroy that which we do have in common.
I very much like Sagan as an author/thinker/person. If I recall, it was Sagan's idea to turn Voyager around to take the picture in the first place, so he didn't just write about the photo but also inspired its creation.

Sagan, in one of his works, pointed out that few religions, especially among western ones, take into account how insignificant we are in the universe, and he sees that as a shortcoming of those religions.


We're tiny and relatively insignificant if you take the entire universe into account. If the human race died the universe would continue as if nothing happened. Whether you take that to be depressing or not is up to you, personally I find it awe-inspiring.
It's my view that a person's worth is very relative. To someone's own self, their life is the universe in that it is of all-importance. To someone's family, a single person can be worth just about everything. To that person's hometown, they still may be worth a significant amount, but considerably less. To a person's country, they are worth next to nothing. To another galaxy, or to the universe as a whole, a person on earth is has basically zero worth, and even if the whole planet, solar system, or galaxy were to no longer exist, it would not affect the rest of the universe besides via some astronomically small gravitational changes.

-Lyn
 
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MoonlessNight

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Carl Sagan said:
Our posturings, our imagined self-importance, the delusion that we have some privileged position in the Universe, are challenged by this point of pale light.

Okay.

Carl Sagan said:
The Earth is a very small stage in a vast cosmic arena. Think of the rivers of blood spilled by all those generals and emperors so that, in glory and triumph, they could become the momentary masters of a fraction of a dot. Think of the endless cruelties visited by the inhabitants of one corner of this pixel on the scarcely distinguishable inhabitants of some other corner, how frequent their misunderstandings, how eager they are to kill one another, how fervent their hatreds.

The first quote makes me confused as to why any of this is problematic. If we are so insignificant in the universe, why should we struggle to make the world a better place or to resolve our conflicts? Our fights might make the world suck, but it's a drop in the bucket of the universe, so who cares?

Carl Sagan said:
There is perhaps no better demonstration of the folly of human conceits than this distant image of our tiny world. To me, it underscores our responsibility to deal more kindly with one another, and to preserve and cherish the pale blue dot, the only home we've ever known.

To me it seems like he immediately contradicts himself here. Isn't the idea that we should act kindly and preserve the Earth another human conceit? How is this conceit validated by our insignificance in the universe when all the others are demolished?

I just don't see how insignificance can lead one to say "therefore we must make a better tomorrow." I can see how you can justify making things better in the face of insignificance (indeed, that is a spirit that I can support wholeheartedly) but Sagan is not saying this. He is clearly saying that it is our unimportance in the world that makes it so vital that we get along. But to me it's like a kid saying "This sand castle has to the best ever, because it's going to be washed away by the tide in the hour! But if it was going to be around forever, it could be as bad as we wanted it to be." I just don't follow Sagan's reasoning at all. It seems like he wanted to have some reason for saying we all need to pull together, and since he was an astronomer he also had the scale of the universe on his mind at the time and decided that the two must be closely related.
 
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Penumbra

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Okay.

The first quote makes me confused as to why any of this is problematic. If we are so insignificant in the universe, why should we struggle to make the world a better place or to resolve our conflicts? Our fights might make the world suck, but it's a drop in the bucket of the universe, so who cares?

To me it seems like he immediately contradicts himself here. Isn't the idea that we should act kindly and preserve the Earth another human conceit? How is this conceit validated by our insignificance in the universe when all the others are demolished?

I just don't see how insignificance can lead one to say "therefore we must make a better tomorrow." I can see how you can justify making things better in the face of insignificance (indeed, that is a spirit that I can support wholeheartedly) but Sagan is not saying this. He is clearly saying that it is our unimportance in the world that makes it so vital that we get along. But to me it's like a kid saying "This sand castle has to the best ever, because it's going to be washed away by the tide in the hour! But if it was going to be around forever, it could be as bad as we wanted it to be." I just don't follow Sagan's reasoning at all. It seems like he wanted to have some reason for saying we all need to pull together, and since he was an astronomer he also had the scale of the universe on his mind at the time and decided that the two must be closely related.
The view is basically to show how small and childish all our (humanity's) squabbles are, and how fragile we truly are if we do not pay attention to and work with one another.

-Lyn
 
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The Nihilist

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Okay.



The first quote makes me confused as to why any of this is problematic. If we are so insignificant in the universe, why should we struggle to make the world a better place or to resolve our conflicts? Our fights might make the world suck, but it's a drop in the bucket of the universe, so who cares?



To me it seems like he immediately contradicts himself here. Isn't the idea that we should act kindly and preserve the Earth another human conceit? How is this conceit validated by our insignificance in the universe when all the others are demolished?

I just don't see how insignificance can lead one to say "therefore we must make a better tomorrow." I can see how you can justify making things better in the face of insignificance (indeed, that is a spirit that I can support wholeheartedly) but Sagan is not saying this. He is clearly saying that it is our unimportance in the world that makes it so vital that we get along. But to me it's like a kid saying "This sand castle has to the best ever, because it's going to be washed away by the tide in the hour! But if it was going to be around forever, it could be as bad as we wanted it to be." I just don't follow Sagan's reasoning at all. It seems like he wanted to have some reason for saying we all need to pull together, and since he was an astronomer he also had the scale of the universe on his mind at the time and decided that the two must be closely related.

Yes, that's it. You're smarter than Carl Sagan. Good job.
 
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Eudaimonist

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I just don't see how insignificance can lead one to say "therefore we must make a better tomorrow."

You make several good points, but I think this should explain Carl Sagan's message:

"Our posturings, our imagined self-importance, the delusion that we have some privileged position in the Universe, are challenged by this point of pale light. Our planet is a lonely speck in the great enveloping cosmic dark. In our obscurity, in all this vastness, there is no hint that help will come from elsewhere to save us from ourselves.

The Earth is the only world known so far to harbor life. There is nowhere else, at least in the near future, to which our species could migrate. Visit, yes. Settle, not yet. Like it or not, for the moment the Earth is where we make our stand."

Carl Sagan is saying that our self-importance won't save us. We must not be deluded by self-importance if the human race is to survive. For the time being, if the Earth goes, we go.


eudaimonia,

Mark
 
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