Reexamination of prayer and will

[Neochristian]

If idols are prayed to and worshiped, and alcohol is an idol, then we must reexamine what prayer and worship are, because nobody looks to them in a way that we would normally call prayer and worship. So what are they?

 

[Neochristian]

The title should say prayer and worship.

 

[juvenissun]

If idols are prayed to and worshiped, and alcohol is an idol, then we must reexamine what prayer and worship are, because nobody looks to them in a way that we would normally call prayer and worship. So what are they?

Why is alcohol so significant so we "need" to revise the definition of pray and worship?

Alcohol is not an idol. We do not worship alcohol. To some people who needed to worry about this problem, it is better to set alcohol as an attacking enemy, rather than an idol.

 

[Neochristian]

Why is alcohol so significant so we "need" to revise the definition of pray and worship?

Alcohol is not an idol. We do not worship alcohol. To some people who needed to worry about this problem, it is better to set alcohol as an attacking enemy, rather than an idol.

I just picked one from the list. The scripture says drukards are idolators. I figure it's easier to go down the line one at a time.

 

[Hieronymus]

Hmm...
When addicted, the substance is idolized in a sense i.m.o.

 

[Neochristian]

Hmm...
When addicted, the substance is idolized in a sense i.m.o.

See, I thought about that, but I don't think addiction or medication qualify as idolization. It's like trustfund babies who spend all their time getting wasted. It's like all those rappers—if the lyrics are to be believed. It's like the person who gets drunk every weekend and looks forward to getting drunk every weekend (unless, of course, they do it out of the need to relax). Obsession with partying what I'm looking at.

 

[Hieronymus]

See, I thought about that, but I don't think addiction or medication qualify as idolization.

Medication use has a purpose rather different from alcohol use.
...on the other hand, both drugs can make you feel better...

It's like trustfund babies who spend all their time getting wasted. It's like all those rappers—if the lyrics are to be believed. It's like the person who gets drunk every weekend and looks forward to getting drunk every weekend (unless, of course, they do it out of the need to relax). Obsession with partying what I'm looking at.

Ah, yes, i have had that too....
In the late 90s i was spending most of my money on alcohol, because i just loved going out to party and drink, drink, drink, chase women and be wicked...
I wouldn't have called it an obsession though...
But maybe that's just because it stopped satisfying me, and i forgot what i had been up to, woke up where i didn't want to couple times...

What can i say...
I was on meds too, and i still am, to get through the day, because i inherited depression from my father....

 

[Neochristian]

Medication use has a purpose rather different from alcohol use.
...on the other hand, both drugs can make you feel better...
[quoteIt's like trustfund babies who spend all their time getting wasted. It's like all those rappers—if the lyrics are to be believed. It's like the person who gets drunk every weekend and looks forward to getting drunk every weekend (unless, of course, they do it out of the need to relax). Obsession with partying what I'm looking at.

Ah, yes, i have had that too....
In the late 90s i was spending most of my money on alcohol, because i just loved going out to party and drink, drink, drink, chase women and be wicked...
I wouldn't have called it an obsession though...
But maybe that's just because it stopped satisfying me, and i forgot what i had been up to, woke up where i didn't want to couple times...

What can i say...
I was on meds too, and i still am, to get through the day, because i inherited depression from my father....[/QUOTE]

I mean using alcohol as a medicine.

That's kind of what I'm trying to get at. It seems that perhaps maybe you were idolizing alcohol. If that is the case that means you were worshiping and praying to alcohol, if idols are things that we worship and pray to. So then we have to compare your experience (or one with a greater amount of obsession) to what we consider worship and prayer today. And by Paul's authority we have to change our current understanding of prayer and worship to be more like this new/original understanding of prayer and worship.

For the record I was like that too when I was younger.

 

[SkyWriting]

Obsession with partying what I'm looking at.

Now you have me looking forward to next Friday.

 

[SkyWriting]

Ah, yes, i have had that too....
In the late 90s i was spending most of my money on alcohol, because i just loved going out to party and drink, drink, drink, chase women and be wicked...
I wouldn't have called it an obsession though...
But maybe that's just because it stopped satisfying me, and i forgot what i had been up to, woke up where i didn't want to couple times...

What can i say...
I was on meds too, and i still am, to get through the day, because i inherited depression from my father....

I don't recall any focus on alcohol, just it's results on my life.

 

[Neochristian]

Well, we're focusing on the way drunkards feel about alcohol.

 

[bhsmte]

Well, we're focusing on the way drunkards feel about alcohol.

They probably feel the same way most obese people feel about food.

 

[Neochristian]

They probably feel the same way most obese people feel about food.

Yeah, that's great. That makes them idols, and we worship idols, which means those are two examples of worship.

 

[bhsmte]

Yeah, that's great. That makes them idols, and we worship idols, which means those are two examples of worship.

I would call it addiction, not worship.

 

[Neochristian]

I would call it addiction, not worship.

Right, but there are drunkards who are not alcoholics. That's what we're focusing on.

 

[bhsmte]

Right, but there are drunkards who are not alcoholics. That's what we're focusing on.

If someone needs to get drunk, because of the feeling it gives them, there exists, some level of addiction to alcohol.

Addictions are not all the same. Some people are "binge" addicted and some are consistent users.

 

[Neochristian]

If someone needs to get drunk, because of the feeling it gives them, there exists, some level of addiction to alcohol.

Addictions are not all the same. Some people are "binge" addicted and some are consistent users.

Right, but we are focused on the ones who WANT not the ones who NEED.

 

[Neochristian]

Think obsessive party goers.

 

[bhsmte]

Right, but we are focused on the ones who WANT not the ones who NEED.

What is the difference between, wanting to get drunk and needing to get drunk?

 

[Neochristian]

What is the difference between, wanting to get drunk and needing to get drunk?

One is an addiction and the other is not.