Reeptionism

[Bryne]

OK...receptionism was the view that I was taught in my adult education classes when I was studying to become a Lutheran. But, I have heard differing views from Lutherans since then. So...what does everyone think and why? Is there an official position of the LCMS on this issue?

 

[JTornado1]

That's a good question. I haven't heard any Lutherans in my church talk about receptionism. I don't what the LCMS's position is on receptionism.

 

[DaRev]

I'm surprised that you were taught receptionism in a Lutheran Church. While we do not know at what point the body and blood of Christ is present in, with, and under the elements, we do know it is after the Verba and before we receive it. The idea of receptionism tends to put some of the sacramental work on us instead of it being wholly and solely the work of God in Christ. He gives us His very body and blood into our mouths to eat and to drink.
We do teach that there is no Real Presence outside the context of the Mass, which does away with the eucharistic adoration or Corpus Christi processions, etc.

 

[Bryne]

Well, I may have understood incorrectly, but I and pretty sure that I was taught that the Body and Blood became present when we received it. It didn't seem like it put the work on us in any way...we weren't taught that our receiving it caused Christ to be present...just that that was when it occurred.

I remember spilling the wine on my shirt and being very upset. My pastor told me not to worry, it was just wine. I suppose that would go along with "outside the context of the mass", but I was unconvinced.

Right now, I kind of take an "I'm not sure" position...I am not even totally convinced that the Body and Blood cease to be present at some point...the only thing I know for sure is that when I receive communion, I do receive the true Body and Blood of our Lord.

 

[DaRev]

Well, I may have understood incorrectly, but I and pretty sure that I was taught that the Body and Blood became present when we received it. It didn't seem like it put the work on us in any way...we weren't taught that our receiving it caused Christ to be present...just that that was when it occurred.

You may not have been taught that, but the teaching implies that. Christ's body and blood aren't present unless we eat it. That by nature puts part of the work on us.

I remember spilling the wine on my shirt and being very upset. My pastor told me not to worry, it was just wine. I suppose that would go along with "outside the context of the mass", but I was unconvinced.

If you spilled it on your shirt while communion was being set up before church, that would be outside of the context of the Mass. If you are kneeling at the altar and it is spilled on your shirt during distribution, you have spilled wine and the blood of Christ.

Right now, I kind of take an "I'm not sure" position...I am not even totally convinced that the Body and Blood cease to be present at some point...the only thing I know for sure is that when I receive communion, I do receive the true Body and Blood of our Lord.

We don't know that that His body and blood cease to be present. But we do know that it is present before we receive it into our mouths. That is the LCMS teaching.

 

[Bryne]

If you spilled it on your shirt while communion was being set up before church, that would be outside of the context of the Mass. If you are kneeling at the altar and it is spilled on your shirt during distribution, you have spilled wine and the blood of Christ.

I do know that the Body and Blood are not present before the words of institution are spoken in the service, so it goes without saying that spilling wine before the Divine Service is just spilling wine.

I spilled the wine while I was at the communion rail. I basically missed my mouth. I was told that it was just wine.

My concern was how to handle cleaning my shirt. Just throwing it in the washing machine just didn't seem proper.

My church isn't a wishy-washy congregation that plays fast and loose with Lutheran theology or LCMS teachings...is this an issue that is not completely settled? Do you have reference to the official teaching of the LCMS? I tried to find it on their website but was unsuccessful.

 

[SyntheticPaper]

Yep, we were definitely taught that it happens when you put it in your mouth or swallow it or something like that (I was in the class too). In fact it was mentioned that that was why the scene in the Luther movie where he spilled the wine was included, to illustrate that it wasn't really the blood that was spilled anyway.

 

[DaRev]

I do know that the Body and Blood are not present before the words of institution are spoken in the service, so it goes without saying that spilling wine before the Divine Service is just spilling wine.

I spilled the wine while I was at the communion rail. I basically missed my mouth. I was told that it was just wine.

My concern was how to handle cleaning my shirt. Just throwing it in the washing machine just didn't seem proper.

My church isn't a wishy-washy congregation that plays fast and loose with Lutheran theology or LCMS teachings...is this an issue that is not completely settled? Do you have reference to the official teaching of the LCMS? I tried to find it on their website but was unsuccessful.

Yep, we were definitely taught that it happens when you put it in your mouth or swallow it or something like that (I was in the class too). In fact it was mentioned that that was why the scene in the Luther movie where he spilled the wine was included, to illustrate that it wasn't really the blood that was spilled anyway.

I find that odd because that is not the teaching of the Missouri Synod.

And the scene in the Luther movie, the reason that Luther and everyone else was upset when the chalice was spilled was precisely because he had spilled the blood of Christ. There is also the story told about a woman who spilled the chalice on herself and on the floor. Luther had the spot in the floor planed and the shavings, along with the woman's dress, he had burned.

Receptionism is not accepted in the LCMS.

I'll search through my books and stuff and find a reference for you.

 

[Tangible]

I've also heard a story that toward the end of his life Luther accidentally spilled some consecrated wine from the chalice and immediately got down on all fours and lapped up the blood and wine with his tongue.

There is an excellent article on receptionism on the web by Rev. Scott Murray. He also did an interview on Issues Etc. about it recently.

... links

Posts tagged "receptionism" - Issues, Etc.

Murray on Receptionism

 

[Bryne]

That second link won't load for me. You posted it on another thread and I couldn't get it to load then, either.

And the first link just leads me to the second link.

 

[Tangible]

Try this for the Issues Etc. link: http://issuesetc.org/podcast/697030111H1.mp3

I don't know why the second one won't load. It's for a pdf file on scribd.com

For the article by Rev Murray (who is the fifth VP of the LCMS) follow this link, then click on the bookmark for the second article in the menu on the left hand side: http://www.cls.org.tw/lib/logia/Journals/09-3 Bach.pdf

 

[Bryne]

Thanks

 

[Tim Myers]

Would you say this is an accurate definition of receptionism?......

"Receptionism is a Christian theological doctrine that in the Eucharist service the communicant receives the body and blood of Christ, but that the bread and wine are not the body and blood of Christ outside the moment of reception."

 

[DaRev]

Would you say this is an accurate definition of receptionism?......

"Receptionism is a Christian theological doctrine that in the Eucharist service the communicant receives the body and blood of Christ, but that the bread and wine are not the body and blood of Christ outside the moment of reception."

That definition sounds a bit contradictory. If it's not the body and blood until it's received, then they aren't receiving the body and blood. They're receiving bread and wine.

 

[PreachersWife2004]

I've also heard a story that toward the end of his life Luther accidentally spilled some consecrated wine from the chalice and immediately got down on all fours and lapped up the blood and wine with his tongue.

I honestly have a hard time believing that's what Jesus had in mind when He instituted the Lord's supper.

 

[Luther073082]

I'm sort of curious though as to what the proper way to clean clothing in which the blood of Christ was spilt on during the mass?

Is there a proper way?

Any recomendations. . .

This hasn't happened to me yet but now that its been mentioned it might be good to know just in case.

I honestly have a hard time believing that's what Jesus had in mind when He instituted the Lord's supper.

I do too, but yet it brings up the important question of how Christ's blood might respectfully be "cleaned"

 

[PreachersWife2004]

We don't do anything overly special. Once a month I go scrub the altar floor and remove the stains from the drips, and I've spilled my cup on more than one occasion (another reason why I prefer common cup - I don't handle the little glasses too well) and I've just laundered my shirt.

Of course, we also dump the used cups in the trash after communion, and I'm sure we're considered to be somewhat apostate for that, so you may want to take anything I say with a grain of salt.

 

[DaRev]

I'm sort of curious though as to what the proper way to clean clothing in which the blood of Christ was spilt on during the mass?

Is there a proper way?

Any recomendations. . .

This hasn't happened to me yet but now that its been mentioned it might be good to know just in case.

Since we do not know if the body and blood of Christ ever cease being present in, with and under the elements after the service (although we do hold that there is no presence outside the context of the Mass - sounds contradictory, I know), the elements are to be handled reverently none the less. If the left over wine is not consumed after the service of the sacrament, it should be poured onto the ground, or into a piscina that is plumbed into the ground. The vessles should be rinsed and poured onto the ground or piscina. Even the little plastic shot glasses (which I loathe) should be rinsed and poured onto the ground or in the piscina before they are thrown into the garbage.

As for spillage, if possible, it can be rinsed with plain water, possibly into a bowl or something, before laundering if desired. But there are situations that simply cannot be helped. Lightening is not going to strike one dead. One thing I've told the altar guild in the past regarding the cleaning of the purificators, if the alcohol has evaporated, it is no longer wine so there is no longer any blood of Christ in the stain.

 

[Tangible]

Just thinking out loud, but if consecrated wine spilled on my shirt or tie I think it would be fitting to soak it in water (and maybe swish it around a little) and then pour the water onto the ground. Something like that.