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Reduction of eligious experience
- Thread starter GrowingSmaller
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sandwiches
Mas sabe el diablo por viejo que por diablo.
It's not. That's the whole point of reduction. It's like looking at a single resistor and trying to guess if it's from a watch, a computer, a video game console, a TV, etc. Why would anyone expect the components of a whole, by themselves, to somehow indicate what they're part of?
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Perhaps a remnant of vitalism? The idea that there is something magically special about life is pretty compelling even though it's wrong. Perhaps it is the same sort of feeling which pushes people to think there must be magic in how the brain works as well.
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All religious experience stems from people's own mental states; to suggest that the supernatural could intrude begs the question. We account for NDE's, OBE'S and such from natural causes, Why then violate the Ockham with the superfluity of the supernatural? Why then does there exist the need for that superfluity?
That need arises from animism- the seeing of intent where none is, and per the teleonomic argument, then theism is reduced animism and just as superstitious.
That need arises from animism- the seeing of intent where none is, and per the teleonomic argument, then theism is reduced animism and just as superstitious.
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KC, that's the begged question- no vitalism, no teleology- divine intent. Lamberth's argument from pareidolia notes that theists discern intent and design when only mechanism and patterns exist.
The arguments about God thread delves into all this.
The arguments about God thread delves into all this.
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Well are you sayingg the supernatural does not exist, or that "I lack belief in the absence of the supernatural, but dont claim it either" or what?
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To find the Deity behind religious experiences begs the question thereof when actually all such experience is of people's own mental states. We now know why ND E's and OD-E's happen.
Susan Blackmore so agrees. Her investigations of personal experiences documents this argument-Lamberth's anti-religious argument.
Why, atheists can experience numinous/oceanic matters. Only we know better than to bring in that supernatural useless cause. And as Gracchus maintains, God did it explains nothing.
Yes, after such experiences, people can act morally and otherwise better, but so can they were they to ascribe to some ideology, so the argument from happiness-purpose errs again.
Keith Ward makes that supercilious argument for his being born-again, albeit an advanced theologian [ accepts evolution and so forth].
We gnu atheists do note the good stemming from religions but maintain, however, that such comes from other sources also,without the sophistry of theology and the illusions of scriptures.
The supernatural has no basis and contradicts our conservation of knowledge,contradicting science instead of complementing it as the teleonomic argument explains.
Gracchus would probably explain that that superfluity explains nothing in morality,science and otherwise.
I only wanted to know were there the Deity at sixteen and didn't find any evidence for Him and I never dwelled on the supposed future state. That never could interest me!
But many others like Ward,John Haught, William Lane Craig and Francisco Jose Ayala dwell on the existential forlornness of life without Him. No evidence appears for that whining! Why should one give into that self-fulfilling prophecy when one can find joy in this only life without Him by understanding what Albert Ellis in "The Myth of Self Esteem" and Robert Price in "The Reason-Driven Life" maintain for that more abundant one!
The late Paul Kurtz spoke of the exuberant attitude to life.
" Life is its own validation and reward and ultimate meaning to which neither God nor the future state can further validate.' Inquiring Lynn
Susan Blackmore so agrees. Her investigations of personal experiences documents this argument-Lamberth's anti-religious argument.
Why, atheists can experience numinous/oceanic matters. Only we know better than to bring in that supernatural useless cause. And as Gracchus maintains, God did it explains nothing.
Yes, after such experiences, people can act morally and otherwise better, but so can they were they to ascribe to some ideology, so the argument from happiness-purpose errs again.
Keith Ward makes that supercilious argument for his being born-again, albeit an advanced theologian [ accepts evolution and so forth].
We gnu atheists do note the good stemming from religions but maintain, however, that such comes from other sources also,without the sophistry of theology and the illusions of scriptures.
The supernatural has no basis and contradicts our conservation of knowledge,contradicting science instead of complementing it as the teleonomic argument explains.
Gracchus would probably explain that that superfluity explains nothing in morality,science and otherwise.
I only wanted to know were there the Deity at sixteen and didn't find any evidence for Him and I never dwelled on the supposed future state. That never could interest me!
But many others like Ward,John Haught, William Lane Craig and Francisco Jose Ayala dwell on the existential forlornness of life without Him. No evidence appears for that whining! Why should one give into that self-fulfilling prophecy when one can find joy in this only life without Him by understanding what Albert Ellis in "The Myth of Self Esteem" and Robert Price in "The Reason-Driven Life" maintain for that more abundant one!
The late Paul Kurtz spoke of the exuberant attitude to life.
" Life is its own validation and reward and ultimate meaning to which neither God nor the future state can further validate.' Inquiring Lynn
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I think what your saying looks way different when it's the Heart that leads in consciousness and not the Brain.
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That's an interesting point you bring up. When I look at the spiritual path that I'm a part of, it does have Mechanism (Love) and Pattern (Love) with it's intent as being Life itself. I've never looked at it in that way.
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Anyone who chants the Maha-mantra (Hare Krishna Hare Krishna Krishna Krishna Hare Hare Hare Rama Hare Rama Rama Rama Hare Hare) with sincere faith and devotion will realize that it is transcendent to all material nature.
You will realize God. You will realize Krishna. You will realize who you are and what your position is. And your life will be a success whereas otherwise it would have been a complete failure.
That is my newfound conviction.
You will realize God. You will realize Krishna. You will realize who you are and what your position is. And your life will be a success whereas otherwise it would have been a complete failure.
That is my newfound conviction.
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I totally and completely agree.
The same is ALSO true for those who chant (La-Ilaha-Illa-Allah) or (Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me, the sinner).
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Sincerity is all well and good. But not all sound-forms are invested with the same level of Potency.
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I tried some and they failed. I don't know about the one's you listed. I go to the ultimate authorities.
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There is a very good book on religious experiences called The Varieties of Religious Experience.
Chanting The Jesus Prayer, interiorly in the heart can become very potent. Some keep the chant in their mind and the true nature of the prayer is to becomer The Prayer of the heart. Otherwise known as moving the mind into the heart. In the depths of the heart 'we are' and God is. God whose own heart may be understood as the Heaven of Heavens. Experiences which lead to greater intimacy or union with God may be called good. And it is in the blessings to overflow and cascade unto others. Much like light from a lit candle flows beyond its wick. This is the nature of grace and love.
In psychology they have been termed 'peak experiences, and different things in different cultures and religions.
Chanting The Jesus Prayer, interiorly in the heart can become very potent. Some keep the chant in their mind and the true nature of the prayer is to becomer The Prayer of the heart. Otherwise known as moving the mind into the heart. In the depths of the heart 'we are' and God is. God whose own heart may be understood as the Heaven of Heavens. Experiences which lead to greater intimacy or union with God may be called good. And it is in the blessings to overflow and cascade unto others. Much like light from a lit candle flows beyond its wick. This is the nature of grace and love.
In psychology they have been termed 'peak experiences, and different things in different cultures and religions.
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Yes and no. Heart is important. Association with devotees and proper Scriptures and injunctions, is of equal importance.
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