redefining the headcover

[Danfrey]

I have to keep these type of discussions online. I am surrounded by Mennonite USA folks and Protestants. If I spoke openly at my work place about what I believe it would make for a very difficult work enviornment.

 

[ZiSunka]

I have to keep these type of discussions online. I am surrounded by Mennonite USA folks and Protestants. If I spoke openly at my work place about what I believe it would make for a very difficult work enviornment.

Ah! The persecution complex! That is a sign of the quite conservative anabaptist sects.

I know a few Conservative preachers who preach constantly that if you don't feel persecuted, you aren't a Christian!

 

[ZiSunka]

So Danfrey, since the headcovering was defined in the NT, how much of a woman's head must be covered?

 

[Danfrey]

So Danfrey, since the headcovering was defined in the NT, how much of a woman's head must be covered?

Actually, the Bible doesn't define it. The early church writings address the style, but I hesitate to go beyond what is defined in scripture.

 

[MrJim]

As far as the covering I heard one teaching that said, since the covering and communion are dealt with in the same chapter/passage of scripture, and that communion is a symbol of a meal, that the covering is a symbol also. So a woman doesn't have to wear a helmet or veils to cover everything above the neck.

I'm like Dan on this one-I think that each should work through it for themselves as how they would apply it.

And no, mrs. menno doesn't believe the covering is applicable for today-it was only for "back then"--the usual cultural context arguement. Funny, the rest of chapter 11 is still good though.

Guess if ya follow the cultural context arguement the Quakers & Salvation Army folks that don't do any sacraments/ordinances are at least consistent.

 

[Danfrey]

Tertullian has a work on this titled "On the veiling of virgins" For my daughter, I lean toward something that is easy to wear, allows her to be a kid and covers much of her hair. Let me add that the only time I enforce the wearing of her cover is when we pray. I will wait for her to go get it before we pray if she doesn't have it on. She wears it most of the time but I teach her that it is only required for prayer and prophesy. Beyond that it is her choice.

 

[Antje]

Hello all,

I'm an Anabaptist, but this whole headcovering thing is quite foreign to me. I know some of my great-aunts and second cousins wear coverings, but I don't actually know any of them personally and have never been to a church where headcovering was practiced.

I guess my question goes out to the ladies who do wear a covering: What does it mean to you? Does it affect how you pray? How would you feel if you didn't wear it? And what does this have to do with husbands, anyway?

I just feel totally lost in this conversation, I have no idea how to connect. I guess I just always thought headcovering had gone the way of animal sacrifice in terms of what is required of us. If headcovering is meaningful to people and helpful in their walk with God, then I have no problem with it. I just don't feel the slightest conviction to cover my head at all because it's unfamiliar and
honestly seems like a weird thing to get hung up about.

 

[theAmishGirl]

Hello all,

I'm an Anabaptist, but this whole headcovering thing is quite foreign to me. I know some of my great-aunts and second cousins wear coverings, but I don't actually know any of them personally and have never been to a church where headcovering was practiced.

I guess my question goes out to the ladies who do wear a covering: What does it mean to you? Does it affect how you pray? How would you feel if you didn't wear it? And what does this have to do with husbands, anyway?

I just feel totally lost in this conversation, I have no idea how to connect. I guess I just always thought headcovering had gone the way of animal sacrifice in terms of what is required of us. If headcovering is meaningful to people and helpful in their walk with God, then I have no problem with it. I just don't feel the slightest conviction to cover my head at all because it's unfamiliar and
honestly seems like a weird thing to get hung up about.

I do cover most of the time and I do so both as a sign of submission to God and to my future husband and also as a form of seperation. While some may dispute that the covering is not a part of seperation, I feel differently. When Paul instructed the women of Corinth to wear coverings (1st Corinthians 11: 3-17) he did so because the women in the area of Corinth did not cover, and to many cultural groups outside the area, a women who was not covered was seen as immoral, so by having these Christian women cover, Paul was having them establish themselves as moral and upright citizens, thus being seperated from the sinful culture around them.

 

[Antje]

Your reply has made me think of another question to add:

What does wearing a piece of cloth on your head actually have to do with the notion of submission?

 

[theAmishGirl]

Your reply has made me think of another question to add:

What does wearing a piece of cloth on your head actually have to do with the notion of submission?

1 Corinthians 113 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.

Further verses explain more... (1 Corinthians 11 )

 

[ZiSunka]

Since the passage says that if a woman doesn't cover her head she should cut her hair, does that mean if a woman cuts her hair, she doesn't have to cover her head?

 

[theAmishGirl]

Since the passage says that if a woman doesn't cover her head she should cut her hair, does that mean if a woman cuts her hair, she doesn't have to cover her head?

I'm not quite sure that one is addressed?!! Theoretically, no I suppose not, so I guess we should all go and shave our heads and become neo-Nazi look alikes!!

 

[ZiSunka]

I'm not quite sure that one is addressed?!! Theoretically, no I suppose not, so I guess we should all go and shave our heads and become neo-Nazi look alikes!!

You don't have to choose between long hair and no hair. There are hair lengths in between. My hair doesn't even touch my shoulders.

 

[MrJim]

Some of the questions brought up have to also be addressed to men also, since they are to be uncovered during prayer. So if hair is the covering then men would have to take it off during prayer?

I don't follow "the hair is the covering" train of thought--in the end it makes the entire passage somewhat nonsensical.

 

[ZiSunka]

Some of the questions brought up have to also be addressed to men also, since they are to be uncovered during prayer. So if hair is the covering then men would have to take it off during prayer?

I don't follow "the hair is the covering" train of thought--in the end it makes the entire passage somewhat nonsensical.

I went to school with a girl from a very strict Wesleyan church and she wasn't even allowed to snip the split ends out of her hair because it made her "shorn," and that church believed a woman's hair is her headcovering.

I think no matter how you look at this issue, it has the potential to become legalistic. To cover or not to cover, to cut or not to cut, when those things come to the level of determining who is and isn't saved, who is and isn't rebelling against God, then that is where legalism begins.

If a single woman wants to cover, she should.

If a husband and wife agree that she should cover, she should.

If they haven't come to conviction about it, then covering is meaningless.

It's either an act of submission to God or it's legalism. The motive is the deciding factor, I think.

 

[MrJim]

I went to school with a girl from a very strict Wesleyan church and she wasn't even allowed to snip the split ends out of her hair because it made her "shorn," and that church believed a woman's hair is her headcovering.

I think no matter how you look at this issue, it has the potential to become legalistic. To cover or not to cover, to cut or not to cut, when those things come to the level of determining who is and isn't saved, who is and isn't rebelling against God, then that is where legalism begins.

If a single woman wants to cover, she should.

If a husband and wife agree that she should cover, she should.

If they haven't come to conviction about it, then covering is meaningless.

It's either an act of submission to God or it's legalism. The motive is the deciding factor, I think.

I suppose that can apply to anything in scripture? OT is full of that sort of thing.

But I would say it would be appropriate to approach the issue with the idea that we want to do the "all things" of scripture.

 

[ZiSunka]

I suppose that can apply to anything in scripture? OT is full of that sort of thing.

But I would say it would be appropriate to approach the issue with the idea that we want to do the "all things" of scripture.

Of course.

I guess my biggest resistence to the headcovering is that it is always men who insist that women who are not under their authority (wife, daughters, widowed mother) MUST do it.

It's my respectful opinion that men should only be involved in the decisions of women under their authority, and not the decisions of women outside their households.

Men can advocate the headcovering, but they ought not preach, demand or cajole women into submitting.

 

[MrJim]

...ok, but what about those angels? Any thoughts on that part of the passage?

 

[ZiSunka]

...ok, but what about those angels? Any thoughts on that part of the passage?

I have puzzled and puzzled over that one, read every commentary I can find on the passage and I still can't make sense of it.

Why would the angels care whether or not my head is covered?

Any ideas?

 

[MrJim]

It's as though the order of woman created for man is sybolized by the covering and it's some kind of lesson or testimony or sign for angels to identify with.

Co 11:8 For the man is not of the woman; but the woman of the man.
1Co 11:9 Neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man.
1Co 11:10 For this cause ought the woman to have power on her head because of the angels.

Since it's all a type of the Christ/Church Groom/Bride maybe this is some of the why? It adds to the mystery and makes me think that there is more to this than meets the eye.