Recovery from the occult forum - an explanation

VickiY said:

Or when others come seeking that same deliverance, and the demons in her turn them away?

This is a hugely bad idea. Internet exorcisms? She, and others like her, need to get real life help, and have my prayers.

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Of course we should all be able to make safe contacts in real life. And if we were living in an indeal world we would

Sylvanspirits said:

Article 5: Ministerial Parameters


5.a. : No online "deliverance" or "exorcisms"

In keeping with the sound counsels of the previous Deliverance Ministry, Deliverance Theology, and Spiritual Warfare fora, NO ATTEMPTS AT ONLINE "EXORCISM" ARE PERMITTED IN THE BETH SHE'AN SUBFORUM. This includes "confrontation" of (real or supposed) demonic manifestations or exorcist-style responses to posts and/or behavior deemed to constitute such.​

ALL situations begging intervention of this confrontational nature require real-world, hands-on, 3-d presence of other people for the safety of the "client". Breaking this rule ONCE is grounds for permanent expulsion from Beth She'an.​

GOOD pastoral ethics covering spiritual care apply in this folder.​

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While you are looking at rules would you care top post Rule 1.8

BelindaP said:

She isn't going to be doing the ministering without supervision. For the most part, she will be a major recipient of ministering.

There will be NO online exorcisms. That is strictly forbidden by the rules.
We would prefer that she get real life help, and we continue to encourage it. Unfortunately, her interactions with Christians has been primarily on this board, and we haven't inspired a great deal of confidence in her.

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wait a minute

she isnt going to be ministering 'without supervision'? WHY would an unrepentant person be allowed a forum to minister anything at all? Especially one who declares they want no deliverance and claims sonnets to satan are beautiful.

This smells really really bad, and i believe we now seriously need some serious clarification by someone in authority over all this.

and when did word of this new secret forum begin?

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Depends on how you want to define it.
It started as a discussion as to how best to help Moriah. It ended up as an idea to have a subforum for general occult recovery.A Wiki was started up and worked on several days ago.No one bothered to notice it until yesterday, when the cries of "Secret Satanist Subforum" erupted.

Time2BCounted said:

and when did word of this new secret forum begin?

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Which one?

Formal discussions for this forum began I think on the 8th september, however it was being discussed in PMs before that

Time2BCounted said:

wait a minute

she isnt going to be ministering 'without supervision'? WHY would an unrepentant person be allowed a forum to minister anything at all? Especially one who declares they want no deliverance and claims sonnets to satan are beautiful.

This smells really really bad, and i believe we now seriously need some serious clarification by someone in authority over all this.

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I guess it depends upon your definition of ministry. Where she would be ministering would be in lending a kind ear to those who want to vent, or telling them that she's been there too. It would be more on the commisserative side of things. I don't think she is in a position to be doing any teaching.

Sylvanspirits said:

Article 5: Ministerial Parameters

5.a. : No online "deliverance" or "exorcisms"

In keeping with the sound counsels of the previous Deliverance Ministry, Deliverance Theology, and Spiritual Warfare fora, NO ATTEMPTS AT ONLINE "EXORCISM" ARE PERMITTED IN THE BETH SHE'AN SUBFORUM. This includes "confrontation" of (real or supposed) demonic manifestations or exorcist-style responses to posts and/or behavior deemed to constitute such.​

ALL situations begging intervention of this confrontational nature require real-world, hands-on, 3-d presence of other people for the safety of the "client". Breaking this rule ONCE is grounds for permanent expulsion from Beth She'an.
GOOD pastoral ethics covering spiritual care apply in this folder.
​

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If these rules are true then what ministering (if any) do you offer them ?

This smells really really bad, and i believe we now seriously need some serious clarification by someone in authority over all this.

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This is Erwin: It's a private subforum for Recovery - they already have another Private forum - they require private forums as their work is sensitive and mostly confidential.

The name is Hebrew for City of Refuge.

It's NOT a satanic exclusive private forum.

It is for CHRISTIANS who are recovering from a past of occultism.

It is only accessible by members of the Recovery Staff Team, and the Pastoral Team.

Only members of the Recovery Staff Team and the Pastoral Team can grant access to members. No one else can give this access except them.

Once access is given, a "refuge" icon shows up in the member's post but only staff can see this.

I apologise for the lack of explanation given to members or staff, this was only done 10 hours ago just before I went to bed.

I repeat, this is a private RECOVERY forum for CHRISTIAN members recovering from a past of the occult. Recovery already has a private forum, this is a subforum.

This is Father Rick: As the one member of the Pastoral Team who was aware that such had been requested by Support, let me throw out a couple of things...First, the idea "House of Refuge"(to my understanding) was taken from the following Biblical concept:
Quote:
Joshua 20 - 1 Then the LORD spoke to Joshua, saying, "Speak to the sons of Israel, saying, 'Designate the cities of refuge, of which I spoke to you through Moses, that the manslayer who kills any person unintentionally, without premeditation, may flee there, and they shall become your refuge from the avenger of blood. 'He shall flee to one of these cities, and shall stand at the entrance of the gate of the city and state his case in the hearing of the elders of that city; and they shall take him into the city to them and give him a place, so that he may dwell among them. 'Now if the avenger of blood pursues him, then they shall not deliver the manslayer into his hand, because he struck his neighbor without premeditation and did not hate him beforehand. 'He shall dwell in that city until he stands before the congregation for judgment, until the death of the one who is high priest in those days. Then the manslayer shall return to his own city and to his own house, to the city from which he fled.'" So they set apart Kedesh in Galilee in the hill country of Naphtali and Shechem in the hill country of Ephraim, and Kiriath-arba (that is, Hebron) in the hill country of Judah. Beyond the Jordan east of Jericho, they designated Bezer in the wilderness on the plain from the tribe of Reuben, and Ramoth in Gilead from the tribe of Gad, and Golan in Bashan from the tribe of Manasseh. These were the appointed cities for all the sons of Israel and for the stranger who sojourns among them, that whoever kills any person unintentionally may flee there, and not die by the hand of the avenger of blood until he stands before the congregation.
From this principle, for centuries churches became known as "houses of refuge" where those who needed a safe place could go and be protected from their pursuers. In the past, this was even codified into law in many countries. (Anyone who's ever watched Highlander should get the concept of "Holy Ground".) The idea was that those who had sinned, committed a crime, etc. could--rather than face prosecution-- live with, like, and surrounded by, those who had dedicated themselves to God--knowing that in such an evironment, the Gospel could (and usually did) change the person from the inside out.Here on Foru.ms, we have people who are legitimatelly seeking to separate themselves from the occult. Depending on how deeply involved in the occult they have been in the past, some will require quite some time to fully distance themselves from their past behaviors and to "renew their minds with the washing of the water of the Word". This is a process.

Unfortunately, as has already been evidenced by some of the other threads here about this subject, some of the regular membership of Foru.ms... although they may be very well intended... do not understand that the deliverance needed may take awhile. Due to this, they attack what they perceive as the person "promoting the occult", when in fact the person is just trying to find out which end is up.

Others feel they have the right to "minister" to someone else even if the other person doesn't want them to and try to force "ministry" on a person who may not be ready to tackle that particular area yet. These people do not understand that for someone coming out of an environment of control and manipulation that the last thing they need is more "control and manipulation". They need a support group of people who will hold their hand and walk them into the truth of the Gospel one step at a time rather than try to force changes on them.

This is very similar to what is already in existence within the Support Forums for those coming out of different kinds of abuse/behaviors that should not be discussed in the public eye, but in a private, safe area.

No more, No less...

And it is an area that I (and I assume other members of the Pastoral Team) have been asked to monitor to ensure that it is actually doing what it is suppose to do-- to provide a safe place for those seeking to exit the occult to come and get help in doing so.

If these rules are true then what ministering (if any) do you offer them ?

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Support, prayer, and comfort.

Sylvanspirits said:

Depends on how you want to define it.
It started as a discussion as to how best to help Moriah. It ended up as an idea to have a subforum for general occult recovery.A Wiki was started up and worked on several days ago.No one bothered to notice it until yesterday, when the cries of "Secret Satanist Subforum" erupted.

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Well you see that is the problem with all this WIKI going on and anyone being able to change content till it is snapshotted and also why there is a suggestion already made days ago that all members be informed of WIKI's especially polls and votes. The site says it is run by all but seems as if a very few are actually doing it. If this truly is a community then notify the community and make it open. Putting it in an area few check is not openness. I learned my lesson I will be looking in there quite a bit now but if openness is what it is all about then start notifying people

Sylvanspirits said:

I feel like I'm not wanted. I know the concerns you have, though.

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Am sorry You're an extraordinary young man, and overflowing with love, and am not trying to quash that in any way, I promise. But am genuinely worried for you, and for any other minors that would be exposed to so much spiritual ugliness.

The ministrations consist of providing love and sympathy. They would involve correction of incorrect or distorted views of God and Christiainity. Providing encouragement and urging people to seek real life help. Sometimes the best ministry is to listen while somebody pours out their heart and soul, no matter how bad it sounds.

As a person who has recovered from incest and sexual abuse, it makes perfect sense to me. What I might have to say about it wouldn't be appropriate for an open forum (especially if going into any kind of detail). However, being able to say it in the presence of unjudgmental people is immensely therapetic. In the same way, survivors of the occult have a similar need. What they might have to say isn't pretty, but it needs to be said as a part of recovery.

Freitag said:

Which one?

Formal discussions for this forum began I think on the 8th september, however it was being discussed in PMs before that

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In other words moriah quit posting at the occult board about the time it was being talked about that she have her own forum here?

you dont find this suspicious?

Now too, why would someone declaring they dont want deliverance, and declaring openly that satanic sonnets are beautiful, breaking the code of promoting that which is against Christ, be allowed a place like this? And why is it being said she will be 'ministering' with supervision? What is the only thing she CAN minister if she is still demon posessed and doesnt want deliverance... you can only administer what which is in your hand to do so.

for those of you who have expressed their support, thankyou. Your support has allowed me to keep hanging on, when I really want to let go.

For those of you who are concerned for the state of my soul, know this.


I am hiding in God right now, desperately trying to avoid falling into this gaping chasm that is opening up beneath my feet. I dont have the strength of the desire to play PC niceness, its taking all that I have just to hang on to Christ. and the abyss seems so welcoming. The thought of oblivion is welcoming, because I would not have to feel anymore

Please dont be asking me questions on this or that, because getting my head to think straight right now, it a major challenge. If you are genuinely concerned for my soul, please pray, because oblivion would be welcome right now please pray that I can hang on.

BelindaP said:

The ministrations consist of providing love and sympathy. They would involve correction of incorrect or distorted views of God and Christiainity. Providing encouragement and urging people to seek real life help. Sometimes the best ministry is to listen while somebody pours out their heart and soul, no matter how bad it sounds.

As a person who has recovered from incest and sexual abuse, it makes perfect sense to me. What I might have to say about it wouldn't be appropriate for an open forum (especially if going into any kind of detail). However, being able to say it in the presence of unjudgmental people is immensely therapetic. In the same way, survivors of the occult have a similar need. What they might have to say isn't pretty, but it needs to be said as a part of recovery.

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You see what I mean, how do you know who is recovering from what ?
It amazes me this two tier system you have.

Freitag said:

for those of you who have expressed their support, thankyou. Your support has allowed me to keep hanging on, when I really want to let go.

For those of you who are concerned for the state of my soul, know this.


I am hiding in God right now, desperately trying to avoid falling into this gaping chasm that is opening up beneath my feet. I dont have the strength of the desire to play PC niceness, its taking all that I have just to hang on to Christ. and the abyss seems so welcoming. The thought of oblivion is welcoming, because I would not have to feel anymore

Please dont be asking me questions on this or that, because getting my head to think straight right now, it a major challenge. If you are genuinely concerned for my soul, please pray, because oblivion would be welcome right now please pray that I can hang on.

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You have my prayers and an ear if you want it. I am not coming at you or anyone else, this was just done incorrectly from the begimnning and I apologize that this has hurt you. My prayers are with you

Have you ever been involved in a 12-step group or group therapy? Somehow a room of alcoholics manages to get millions of people to overcome alcoholism. Everyone is recoverying, but some are further along than others. It works along the same lines.

Freitag said:

for those of you who have expressed their support, thankyou. Your support has allowed me to keep hanging on, when I really want to let go.

For those of you who are concerned for the state of my soul, know this.


I am hiding in God right now, desperately trying to avoid falling into this gaping chasm that is opening up beneath my feet. I dont have the strength of the desire to play PC niceness, its taking all that I have just to hang on to Christ. and the abyss seems so welcoming. The thought of oblivion is welcoming, because I would not have to feel anymore

Please dont be asking me questions on this or that, because getting my head to think straight right now, it a major challenge. If you are genuinely concerned for my soul, please pray, because oblivion would be welcome right now please pray that I can hang on.

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If the stresses of this are bothering you i am sorry for this, my desire is to see the best for every soul

. Are you going to be one ministering in this new forum?

i have not read all of this thread....it seems like people who post there are concerned about their privacy. what about coding the forum like the report forums are coded. people who are struggling can post there but nobody but staff can see who they are?

this way, the forum is open and able to be looked at by all members (gets rid of the soopersecret issue) but members are still able to post confidentially.....

Am sorry You're an extraordinary young man, and overflowing with love, and am not trying to quash that in any way, I promise. But am genuinely worried for you, and for any other minors that would be exposed to so much spiritual ugliness.

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I appreciate that you are concerned for me.
But please, don't worry. First encounter I had with what could be considered a demonic being was a little more than a year ago, before I knew of this site. I'm quite aware of what to do and what not to do. Being foolish and trying to stand on your own or trying to entertain demons is dangerous, and one should rather put on the full armor of God and counter with prayer and rebuking in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ. In any event, there's no active deliverance ministry online anyways, so don't worry about that. The fact of the matter is, I already know of and have been exposed to spiritual ugliness, and I think it would be sad if I were not there to help spead Christ's love. Just my opinion.

For those who are skeptical about the "demon" - I don't have a history of mental illness, and it hasn't happened again to date, but I'd rather not really talk about it unless I know you.