RECORD vs LAYERS

[sjastro]

Then Bill Gates is dumb because he invested one billion dollars. Also, Musk is dumb because he is the one that started the project even though he gave it to Gates. Chatbots are only as effective as their sources. So we need one that gives us the information so we can go to those websites and check out them out for ourselves.

I am glad you think you are smarter than Gates and Musk. Can you loan me a few dollars since you have more going for you than the two richest men in the world. Right now people need housing and transportation. Musk is working on that. What are you doing to make this world a better place to live?

As Gates would say: How can people not see the huge advantage in this?

Firstly questioning my morality with the "What are you doing to make this world a better place to live?" is a personal attack and a reportable offense.
Secondly your post doesn't even make any sense.
Irrespective of how many billion of dollars Gates and Musk have sunk into the project, the quality of the chatbot you have used as it stands today is woefully inadequate as exemplified by its idiotic responses even after it has supposedly made corrections as pointed out in my previous post.
.

 

[sjastro]

My son is into formulas, I am not. There is a HUGE area

Neil Degrass Tyson in his book "Astrophysics for People in a Hurry" talks about how exponential decay applies to the universe and how it works on the cosmological scale, how it explains dark energy, how it shapes the fate of galaxies and how it gives us a glimpse of the ultimate fate of the universe.

Gerald Schroeder does not talk about exponential decay. What point are you trying to make about this? Decay is what makes us finite. God is infinite because there is no decay, and there is no change with God. He is the same yesterday, today, and tomorrow.

The Hasidic teaches that one of the main concepts in Kabbalah is the idea of the "shevirat hakelim" or "breaking of the vessels." This refers to the idea that when God created the world, the vessels that were created to contain the divine light shattered, causing a fragmentation of the divine light into sparks that became trapped in the physical world. This event is said to have caused the spiritual and physical realms to become separate and disconnected, leading to the existence of evil and suffering in the world.

Today we talk about singularities, dark holes and event horizons.

A hopelessly confused mishmash of science and religion, is this the chatbot response or the Diamond7 response?
Since this is a science forum I'll the refer to the science and not the religion.

If Gerald Schroeder is not talking about exponential decay then why does he refer to a formula which explicitly relates to half life for exponential decay as highlighted in his notes?

If you don't think this is about exponential decay and is based on the idiotic chatbot response of it involving the R-W metric, well I'm afraid two wrongs don't make a right.

Bringing Tyson into the picture is a false equivalence to put it mildly, do you think Tyson in anyway supports Schroeder?
Since you or the chatbot have made the claim Tyson in his book states "talks about how exponential decay applies to the universe and how it works on the cosmological scale, how it explains dark energy ..", I want you to provide the citation on how this applies to dark energy
It's remarkable no one understands the mechanism for dark energy which is a problem for particle physicists to solve, yet Tyson an astrophysicist seems to have the answers which I doubt very much.
Even the cosmologists would be puzzled how exponential decay is even applicable as the dark energy density is constant or even increasing in an expanding universe.

BTW I am seriously considering taking up the issue with the moderators about posters using chatbots.
My responses are directly towards posters not chatbots.

 

[Diamond72]

Bringing Tyson into the picture is a false equivalence to put it mildly, do you think Tyson in anyway supports Schroeder?

Tyson is just someone I have a lot of respect for.

 

[Diamond72]

Firstly questioning my morality

You are the one that continues to question me. Then you want to accuse me of what you are guilty of.

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

Schroeder's proposed interpretation is based on the idea of "time dilation" which is a consequence of Einstein's Theory of General Relativity. According to this theory, time can appear to operate at different rates in different gravitational fields and in different relative velocities.

Yes, I know. But General Relativity has nothing to do with Schroeder's claim.

Schroeder argues that this time dilation can also apply to the quantum realm and can be used to reconcile the age of the universe as calculated by scientists with the age of the universe as described in religious texts. However, this interpretation is not accepted by mainstream science and there is no scientific evidence to support it.

The Age of the Universe | Gerald Schroeder

Yup. There's a word for this - pseudoscience. As he himself says, there's no absolute time - so time dilation over time is meaningless with no referent to compare against. I could claim that time last week ran a million times faster than time this week, so last week only lasted for a millionth of a normal week - but it's meaningless.

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

You are talking about two different things. The generations of Adam begins with chapter two of Genesis 6,000 years ago. Gerald Schroeder is talking about Genesis Chapter one. That is fine if it does not work for you. It works for me from my perspective. This is something everyone has to work out for themselves.

You were the one that talked about the 'generations of Adam' with respect to Special Relativity:

"Gensis chapter one talks about the Beginning and genesis chapter two talks about the generations. Esp the generations of Adam. So this is the perspective or viewpoint. In the Special Theory of Relativity, Einstein determined that time is relative—in other words, the rate at which time passes depends on your frame of reference." [my underscore]​

I was asking you to explain the relevance. If it isn't relevant, maybe you could explain why you mentioned it...

There are two main ways to measure a day:

1. Solar time: A day is defined as the time it takes for the Earth to rotate once on its axis with respect to the sun. This is called a solar day and it is measured by the position of the sun in the sky. A solar day is slightly longer than 24 hours, due to the fact that the Earth's orbit around the sun is not a perfect circle and the Earth's rotation on its axis is not perfectly constant.
2. Sidereal time: A day is defined as the time it takes for the Earth to rotate once on its axis with respect to a fixed point in the sky. This is called a sidereal day and it is measured by the position of stars in the sky. A sidereal day is slightly shorter than a solar day, due to the fact that the Earth is also orbiting the sun, so that a star will not be in exactly the same position in the sky when the Earth completes one rotation on its axis .

Both solar time and sidereal time are used for different purposes, solar time is used for civil time and sidereal time is used for astronomical observations.

Yes, I know about solar and sidereal time.

God took me to the center of the Universe, so I know where He measures time from. There had to be a reason why He wanted to show me that. Even though it was 14 billion light-years away. Still, we were there in almost an instant. There is by the way NOTHING at the center of the universe, other than space and all that it contains. Of course, there is light. The universe is filled with light.

There is no centre of the universe, and it doesn't matter where you think God measures time from - because there's no absolute time. Space and all that it contains is very much not nothing.

Perhaps your experience was not what you thought it was...

 

[Hans Blaster]

My son is into formulas, I am not. There is a HUGE area

Neil Degrass Tyson in his book "Astrophysics for People in a Hurry" talks about how exponential decay applies to the universe and how it works on the cosmological scale, how it explains dark energy, how it shapes the fate of galaxies and how it gives us a glimpse of the ultimate fate of the universe.

You're relaying 2nd and 3rd hand info you don't seem to understand. This is a problem.

Gerald Schroeder does not talk about exponential decay. What point are you trying to make about this? Decay is what makes us finite. God is infinite because there is no decay, and there is no change with God. He is the same yesterday, today, and tomorrow.

Schroeder absolutely does talk about exponentials. His whole "speed of time" calculation is based on it.

The Hasidic teaches that one of the main concepts in Kabbalah is the idea of the "shevirat hakelim" or "breaking of the vessels." This refers to the idea that when God created the world, the vessels that were created to contain the divine light shattered, causing a fragmentation of the divine light into sparks that became trapped in the physical world. This event is said to have caused the spiritual and physical realms to become separate and disconnected, leading to the existence of evil and suffering in the world.

Sounds like unphysical blabber to me, but that's what happens when religious claims are substituted for physics.

Today we talk about singularities, dark holes and event horizons.

These things are unrelated to anything in "scripture" or religion.

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

Put me on ignore if you do not like me using AI to organize my posts to make them more coherent. I am only responding to posts you are sending me. Should I quit using grammar correct also? Does that offend you? Maybe you want me to quit using the spelling checker also. We are taking one step forward and you want to take two steps back. I am fine with that. Let's go back to the commodore 64 and message boards if you like primitive. We can get you one on Amazon for $45. You can even use it with your TV.
View attachment 327258

What you need to understand is that chatbots don't understand what they put together, they're effectively using statistical models to put together the sort of words that people have used in text on the topic in question. It's OK to use an AI like ChatGPT as a shortcut if you have some understanding of the subject, because you can correct the silly mistakes it can make, but if neither the chatbot or you understand what you're posting, don't be surprised if people that do understand think you're wasting their time.

I would suggest that you indicate which parts of your post are cut & paste from a chatbot so we know who is talking gibberish. It's generally considered good practice to use double quotation marks and an attribution when posting text that is not your own.

 

[Diamond72]

I would suggest that you indicate which parts of your post are cut & paste from a chatbot so we know who is talking gibberish. It's generally considered good practice to use double quotation marks and an attribution when posting text that is not your own.

The problem is people want to throw formulas around that make no sense at all. Chatbot explains what they mean and gives them a name. For example, my son was trying to understand the practical application of the Greens Theorem so I told him to put the formula in and he got the information he wanted. Greens theorem can be used for Fluid Mechanics and Electrostatics. He is a computer engineer and is impressed with the advances they are making with the chatbots. As I am impressed because they help me to understand what people are talking about when they just sound like jibberish to me. My older son was an electronic engineer and I am sure that he is working on this along with me and his brother.

You may be right to quote the sources. This is all new. Some of the Chatbots tell you where they got the information from and that helps a lot. You can check out the source to see right away if it is valid or not. The AI does not seem to be smart enough yet to know if their information is valid or even true. Although they are self-correcting if we challenge them on the nonsense they put out. Also, you have to tell them the perspective you want. If you want science, religion, atheism, or whatever perspective you want to look at. I am told you can even pick a grade level that you want them to communicate at.

Chatbot does seem to bridge the gap from one perspective to another to help people communicate better.

 

[Diamond72]

don't be surprised if people that do understand think you're wasting their time.

The real problem is not everyone has excellent communication skills the way you do. Some people need to work on that or people are going to stay away and avoid them if they do not learn how to better communicate with others. The main thing my mother taught me is you need to be like water on a duck's back. You have to ignore what people say sometimes and not let it bother you. Everyone liked my mom because she never allowed herself to be offended by anyone.

 

[Diamond72]

A hopelessly confused mishmash of science and religion

I am sorry to have wasted your time. Please accept my apology.

 

[Diamond72]

Sounds like unphysical blabber to me

Kaballah is like that for most people. The Hasidic makes it a little bit more understandable. But if you really want to get into Kaballah you have to study your bible for 40 years first. "Kabbalah is a complex and esoteric branch of Judaism, and it is believed that one must have a strong background in Jewish scholarship and spirituality to fully understand it. Some people also study Kabbalah as part of their spiritual or mystical path, regardless of their religion. It is also recommended to have a teacher or guide when studying Kabbalah." (chatbot)

Sorry I have been a little sloppy and not using quotation marks and the reference. I will try to make things a little bit more clear but not all chatbots give their references the way they should. "Perplexity" does. Then people can read the references themselves. This is all new technology. So we are all adjusting to it.

"To find a teacher or guide for studying Kabbalah, it is important to choose someone who can be trusted[1][2]"

1

learnkabbalah.com
2

huffpost.com
3

kabbalah.com
4

gokabbalahnow.com
5

chabad.org

 

[sjastro]

Tyson is just someone I have a lot of respect for.

Yes I’m sure he is a wonderful human being as well but you still haven’t produced any citations to his claim that dark energy is explained by exponential decay.

 

[sjastro]

You are the one that continues to question me. Then you want to accuse me of what you are guilty of.

I noticed you deleted the offending post only to replace it with another personal attack by playing the victim card via false accusations.
I suggest you reread my posts which only involve the nonsense spouted by your chatbot and Schroeder; how you can misconstrue this as a personal attack is anyone’s guess.

The reason why your chatbot is limited and makes stupid responses because it shows up the limitations of supervised machine learning where it is only as good the information supplied to it.

The achievements of AI is seen through reinforcement learning.
An example is the chess playing algorithm Leela Chess Zero where the only human intervention was to show Leela how to make chess moves.
Leela trained itself without any further human intervention and has reached superhuman levels of performance.

I’ve experienced both extremes of AI, your silly chatbot making stupid comments and playing a superhuman at chess where its “incomprehensible” moves are at an evolutionary level beyond the understanding of even the very best human players.
Programs such as Leela and AlphaGo are test cases for the use of reinforcement machine learning in science.

 

[Diamond72]

dark energy is explained by exponential decay.

I do not know what you mean by this statement. What makes you think there is any association between decay and dark energy? I am not aware of any connection between them.

 

[Diamond72]

I noticed you deleted the offending

yes and I apologised if I offending you. I would rather avoid a conversation than offend people. Of course, at my age, we get offended a lot. People just do not have the respect they should have for older people.

 

[sjastro]

I do not know what you mean by this statement. What makes you think there is any association between decay and dark energy? I am not aware of any connection between them.

It's not me making the association but according to you Tyson.
From your post #180.

Neil Degrass Tyson in his book "Astrophysics for People in a Hurry" talks about how exponential decay applies to the universe and how it works on the cosmological scale, how it explains dark energy, how it shapes the fate of galaxies and how it gives us a glimpse of the ultimate fate of the universe.

 

[sjastro]

yes and I apologised if I offending you. I would rather avoid a conversation than offend people. Of course, at my age, we get offended a lot. People just do not have the respect they should have for older people.

You really can't help yourself with the backhander can you.

 

[Neogaia777]

I have tried to show you all how all this arguing can all be put to rest on multiple occasions...

Would any of you care to hear it (again)...?

Because I very much highly doubt it...

(Because none of you cared to hear it the first time, or the second time, or the "one hundred and eleventh time", or "whatever", etc)...

A summary: Genesis 1:1 to 2:4 should be it's own chapter, or maybe even book, etc, since it is a summary or history (quick fly over or fly by really) of an entire Creation from beginning to end, etc, the fall is not even mentioned, etc, 7 quote/unquote "days", etc, that were actually very, very long ages or periods of time, of which day 7 hasnt even happened yet, and of which we have been in day 6 for a very, very long time, etc...

Genesis 2:5 should be the start of a whole new chapter, or maybe even book, etc, since it just jumps in to just only at the start of the Garden of Eden and of the Man and the animals there on day 6, which actually only started a long long time into day 6 already, etc, the Garden of Eden was regional, and was a special creation beginning with the very first Son of God, etc, who was also a special creation, etc, which were different from the evolved race of the sons of men, etc...

After the exile from Eden, the original Son of God gave rise to a race of the Sons of God, etc, that lived, or were in the region of Mesopotamia at or around 5500-6000 years BC, they began running into the race of the sons and daughters of men, and began having hybrid children with them (Nephlim, etc), God the Spirit, who was over them then, did not like this, and so chose only eight of those original ones to save or spare, and then sent a regional flood to kill or wipe out all of the others (except Cain and his family (progeny) and his wife (a daughter of men/man), his (Cains) progeny or children from that wife were other Nephlim that might have survived the flood, etc) (besides the original eight that were still pure Sons of God that God the Spirit decided to spare or save (Noah and his family, etc)) All others of those original Sons of God/descendants of Adam, were killed or wiped out by the regional flood that happened around 5000/5500 BC in the region of Mesopotamia where they were dwelling, also most of the hybrid children of them (Nephlim) who were being created or made by them (those original Sons of God) in that region also, etc...

After that, Noah and his family's lineage began to dwindle or decrease as they had no choice after that but to eventually breed with the evolved race of the sons and daughters of men, who at the time, were more like animals to God the Spirit than actual men or people, and is why most of those original ones (Sons of God) were destroyed by Him, besides the fact that they had become exceedingly wicked besides that, etc...

I'll stop there for now...

Tell me if you want to hear more, ok...

God Bless!

 

[Neogaia777]

The fossil record is correct, the earth is very, very old, and so is the universe, etc, etc, etc, and none of it actually contradicts the Bible, etc...

God Bless!