record labels

[Nico]

I was curious as to if anyone in this forum has intimate knowledge of record lables, i.e. worked for one, has a band that is signed by one, owns one, whatever. If that is YOU, I was curious if you could share your experiences: the negatives, positives, what works, what doesn't work, what you wish woud work, what the hardest part is, advice, all that good stuff. Any and all comments appreciated

 

[peanutbutter12]

The hardest part... being a musician in a whole is hard. There are so many chances to take and the compitition is fierce. I myself am in between a few secular mainstream labels. I have a lot of demands for my music and I won't sign to anyone who won't meet those demands. Labels like to be in complete control of everything. They want to say they own the music, the band, and the fans.

CJ

 

[Nico]

what are those demands for your music? What do you ideally expect from a label? What would be the ideal relationship be btwn. label and musician? Also, as a musician, would you consider signing to a lesser-known, almost unkonwn label that was pro-artist or are you just going to wait out for the best bigger name that comes along?

 

[peanutbutter12]

what are those demands for your music? There is a whole list of demands concerning my ownership and freedom to create and own the music. To decide what to write about and what to release on albums. Also I have demands for productions and for copyright information that is just too detailed to get into.

What do you ideally expect from a label? That depends. I would expect that if they truly want us on, they would be willing to negotiate all sides until we come out where both sides are happy with the outcome. Unfortunately, that usually doesn't happen because they want to control everything including the size of their bank accounts.

What would be the ideal relationship be btwn. label and musician? See above

Also, as a musician, would you consider signing to a lesser-known, almost unkonwn label that was pro-artist or are you just going to wait out for the best bigger name that comes along? Not a chance. That might fit for other artists who are just out to get their album out and do a few OzFest shows, but they will never reach that legendary status. Forgive my large head, but I am better than that. I know the music I write is far better than the trash coming out today, and I will only accept the best for that. A small label can't produce the revenue needed to promote something as big as what I am doing, nor will we get the revenue we deserve from a small label. Keep in mind that while music is a hobby and what I love, it is also a business and a job. It's a heck of a lot harder to do this than what people would like to think. I've done more work in the past 2 years with this than most people will in their whole lives.

CJ

 

[Nico]

well, thanks for your input, it's helped a lot, actually. If you think of anything else, please let me know.

oh, and as for your "big head" I think it's kind of an important aspect seeing the direction you're going. I wish I had a bit more confidence; it goes a long way, I've found. So, for what it's worth, I do wish the best for you and your plans. It sounds like you're at least on the right track....

 

[yod]

there are as many different situations as there are labels.

My experience being on a label and having a lot of friends on labels (presently and in the past) is that no matter who you are signed with you won't see any money on record sales for the first 2 albums. The best reason to sign with a label is that you can get better paying gigs and sell more CDs while you're there. I went from begging to play for free to making at least a grand per show and the only difference is the distributor of my CD. Go figure?

It takes a LOT of money for a label to break a new artist and they expect to recoup every penny before you see any. If you have someone willing to invest that kind of money in you, I say go for it.

Another thing I've learned is that there is no such thing as a major label. Only labels with major distribution count. In the christian biz there are the "big 3" distributors Provident/BMG, Warner (formerly Word) and EMI.

Only labels distributed by them are getting into the market place but that doesn't mean they are the only labels who count. Smaller labels can help unknown bands get to certain point and then sell them to the larger labels. Gosh...there are so many different ways into the game.

But it's all a pipedream. You could sign with one of the biggies and then they get bought and you are a step-child to the new administration. It happened to two different friends of mine who looked like they were on their way to major stardom...and it happens every day.

I would advise being excellent at your craft, cultivating your relationship with the Lord over everything else, and then let Him take care of the details. You could have a more fulfilling life being a trashman for Jesus than a rich rock star without Him.

If and when you are truly ready for a national music ministry you won't have to go looking for a label. They will find you.....there aren't really that many bands at that level so news travels when someone shines above the noise.

And oh yeah....be original. We don't need another Sonic Flood.

Hope that helps...

 

[peanutbutter12]

I tend to disagree with a lot of that. Especially with working with a lot of the mainstream labels I've worked with already and going over contracts in detail. But like you did say, every situation is different...

CJ

 

[yod]

I tend to disagree with a lot of that. Especially with working with a lot of the mainstream labels I've worked with already and going over contracts in detail. But like you did say, every situation is different...

CJ

Really? What did I say that isn't 100% true?

What do you mean by "mainstream" labels?


secular? christian?


Do you have any experience of actually being on a label to support your opinion?

 

[peanutbutter12]

My experience being on a label and having a lot of friends on labels (presently and in the past) is that no matter who you are signed with you won't see any money on record sales for the first 2 albums.

This might be true for some, but not all. Especially when looking at the mainstream industry. A good band to look at here is Evanescence. Their first released cd on a major label this past year earned them millions of sales and the cash in their back pocket to back it up.

If you don't know the definition of Mainstream, I am guessing you either have not been working in this industry long enough to know what is what, have kept yourself hidden in smaller Xian (Christian) labels, or you just need to get out more. When we talk Mainstream, we are basically talking about the big boys who are the head of this industry and practically run it. Atlantic, Sony, Capitol, Virgin, Columbia, Universal... these guys run the show. There have been some odd-ball artists who have been on smaller labels (like Evanescence) that have actually hit hard, but for the most part, 90% of every bands these big artists take in, end up being huge.

The former posts in this thread talk about my experience with the labels themselves... keep in mind that my band is not Xian though I have worked with a few differen't Xian labels. I will not limit myself to those.

CJ

 

[Morrissey]

Here's an excellent speech/article by Courtney Love about the inner workings of the major label music industry.

http://dir.salon.com/tech/feature/2000/06/14/love/index.html

 

[yod]

Oh Morrisey...don't you realize that Courtney Love (and I) know nothing about the music biz?

Forget the fact that only 1 in 8 major label records ever smells a profit.

I've only been a professional musician since 1973 (9 years before TerraSin was born) so what would I know?

You've got a lot to learn, CJ. The first lesson is that you don't know jack.

But you are pretty good at acting like an arrogant rock star. Let us know how far that gets you.

 

[yod]

On second thought....nevermind.

 

[peanutbutter12]

Oh Morrisey...don't you realize that Courtney Love (and I) know nothing about the music biz?

Forget the fact that only 1 in 8 major label records ever smells a profit.

I've only been a professional musician since 1973 (9 years before TerraSin was born) so what would I know?

You've got a lot to learn, CJ. The first lesson is that you don't know jack.

But you are pretty good at acting like an arrogant rock star. Let us know how far that gets you.

LOL, such offence. Granted, I have a lot to learn, but by what you said, I am glad I know what I know instead of being as clueless as some. So tell me, if Courtney is so broke, how does she afford to live in a 2 million dollar house? Certainly not by looks alone. There are always two sides of the story.

Courtney is probably just mad because she never got as big as her late husband who practically ran the scene for 4 years in the early 90's. She was always on the side while he got all the attention.

I don't care if you worked in the business since the stone age. I've been emersing myself in it for the past 4 years and I've probably learned more in those years than you will if you live to be 100 because I didn't limit myself. Do not reply to this if all you are going to do is throw personal attacks around. I don't have the time to waste on such trash just because someone disagrees with you who may just know a little more about the big boys.

If I were you, I would read through my previous posts and see that I am in no way trying to defend these companies. I think they are heartless rats who would no less rip you to pieces and spit you back out.

And thanks for the compliment. You need a bit of arrogance to make it in this business. Good luck to you.

Best,
CJ

 

[yod]

So tell me, if Courtney is so broke, how does she afford to live in a 2 million dollar house?.

If you had bothered to read my initial post you would see where I said a new band usualy makes nothing from "record sales" in the first two albums. Publishing and writers royalties are separate from that. I also said that being on a record label allows you to make more money per gig. How many albums does Courtney have? Do you think she ever does gigs?

I would venture a guess that she also inherited Kurts royalties. Either way....what she says in that article slapped you in the face with truth and you still deny it? That tells me everything I need to know about you.

I don't care if you worked in the business since the stone age. I've been emersing myself in it for the past 4 years and I've probably learned more in those years than you will if you live to be 100 because I didn't limit myself. Do not reply to this if all you are going to do is throw personal attacks around.

Oh that's rich. You make a personal remark and then tell me not to get personal?

Sonny boy....you are a pompous wanna-be. You keep proving that you don't know jack. Maybe you can fool people who don't know the business but I'm not one of those.

You limit God with your contempt for christian record labels...therefore you already ARE limited.

By the way...they are all owned by those secular giants you idolize. Signing with Word is signing with Warner. Signing with any label on Provident is signing with BMG. Signing with any label on Forefront/Sparrow is signing with EMI.

I would have thought a mental giant like yourself knew that already.

I don't have the time to waste on such trash just because someone disagrees with you who may just know a little more about the big boys.

You use the words "probably" and "maybe" a lot. Let me be a little more clearer than that. You are utterly ignorant about how the business works and as long as you continue the "rock star cool" act, no one will ever be able to help you get over it.

And the only record contract you will ever see is where you pay $1 and get 12 CDs from BMG. By the way...I'm distributed by BMG. Who is your distributor again?

If I were you, I would read through my previous posts and see that I am in no way trying to defend these companies. I think they are heartless rats who would no less rip you to pieces and spit you back out.

If I were you, I'd quit before everyone found out how clueless you really are.

Now you want it both ways? I thought those rats made EVERY band rich on their first album????

I read your posts and they are void of fact. Opinions like empty clouds.

And thanks for the compliment. You need a bit of arrogance to make it in this business.

Just remember that God opposes the proud.

When you start doing things His way instead of your own, you "might" have a chance. Until then you are really on your own.

 

[peanutbutter12]

All I can really do is laugh at your ignorance. You whine about being in the business for what, 25+ years yet I have never heard of you. Yes, I am sure you know it all. Grow some brains, daddy, and get over your power trip like you know more than everyone else in the world. Then we will talk. I'm done wasting my time on you. Go pray or something, you really need God right now.

CJ

 

[yod]

more empty clouds from a wanne-be.


You have no idea. When you get to the end of your puffed up self.....Jesus will pick you up.

 

[Nico]

so just to bring the conversation back to me, one of the reasons I was asking is b/c I've been thinking about starting my own record label. I would be, obviously, an indie record label and my little project probably won't make it into the "big leaues", but that's ok by me. I'm interested in seeing what musicians want/expect/hope for from their label, and seeing if I might be able to provide that. I'd even probably be happy if some of my bands get bigger and then decide that it's far more lucrative to sign w/a bigger label, like Elliott Smith, or even Nirvana or something like that. That's the way it goes, but anyway, I digress. So that's sorta what's going on in my head, any comments I'm open. Or you can go back to arguing amongst yourselves

 

[yod]

First of all this question is lot more complicated than an internet post can answer...but in a word;


Distribution.

That's the difference between a label that sells records and one that doesn't. If you are serious about making this a career you might consider studying business at Belmont in Nashville.

If you just want to help some of your friends out locally....all you need is enough money to record a CD.

It would help if that band was already creating a large demand for a CD and didn't want much in return. LOL

 

[MusicMelOU]

I'm not expert or anything on the entertainment business by any means (though I have read many books on the topic), but I think that a lot of it seems to boil down to who you know and just being in a good place at a good time.

It's that way in a lot of fields. I know for myself, I would like to break into the Christian recording industry; I make Christian electronic music, which is a lot different than what is presently out there being marketed (praise guitar-based band after another). There even seems to be a demand out there for it; I've seen posts here and on other forums elsewhere where people are asking about Christian Electronic music, and from what I've read, there aren't many people out there making it. I think if I was at the right place at the right time, I could have a shot at getting a good deal simply because my stuff is a lot different than what is out there, and seems to be in some demand.

However, I am in Norman, Oklahoma of all places. I don't know a soul here involved with the recording industry (because there aren't many here); the only business here there is with music is church bands, and that's about the extent of it. There's nowhere where I can perform live because there aren't places where Christian bands can break through here really; each church to it's own band, and that 's about it.

So, my music just kind of sits here on my computer because I don't know anyone anywhere to help me get my foot in the door, and in my geographical area, it's not a bigger music market to break through anyway. I think for people who are successful with this industry, they have some streak of luck of knowing the right person with the golden ticket and being in the right place at the right time. But of course you can't discount some of the other things that have been mentioned.

PS...be nice guys! Let's fellowship about all of this; not fight and put each other down

 

[yod]

So, my music just kind of sits here on my computer because I don't know anyone anywhere to help me get my foot in the door, and in my geographical area, it's not a bigger music market to break through anyway. I think for people who are successful with this industry, they have some streak of luck of knowing the right person with the golden ticket and being in the right place at the right time

Don't give up Melissa!

Let your passion take you where you want to go. If you have something that is really new to offer then people will notice. If you are interested in christian labels, a lot of them are honestly looking at the GMA talent shows for new artists. You arent' too far from the one in Estes Colorado.

If you do "christian" techno then check out N-Soul Records. They are about the only dance-christian label but don't limit God to just christian labels if you are really called to do music

Do you have your music online where folks can hear it? The simplest music streaming model I've found is Soundclick.com

I havent searched out all the webhosting options but their site is free and it gets your music up immediately with no waiting except for the very first day you sign on. I'd like to hear your stuff.