This is a simple statement of what God did. There really is no time stamp on this verse. HAD formed as many translations present it...seem to do a very good job of identifying a time stamp. No need to mess with it.
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Gen 2:19 And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.
This is a simple statement of what God did. There really is no time stamp on this verse. HAD formed as many translations present it...seem to do a very good job of identifying a time stamp. No need to mess with it.
Gen 2 doesn't say that. All that it mentions is God frormed the animals..it says not when. When we perform proper hermenuitics on the issue we see in chapter 1 when God formed the animals....before Adam. This means HAD formed is a better translation.Again, he is formed animals after forming Adam. It is not a reference to animals created in Gen 1. Verse 2:18 makes that clear.
Gen 2 doesn't say that. All that it mentions is God frormed the animals..it says not when.
I'd rather stick with the bible than your edit.It does say when, see the edited post above.
I'd rather stick with the bible than your edit.
Again, he is forming animals after forming Adam. It is not a reference to animals created in Gen 1. Verse 2:18 makes that clear since Adam was alone and God said he was going to create a helpmeet, and after creating animals there was no helpmeet found so God makes Eve. Your personal interpretation does not match the text.
To me it makes more sense to consider that Adam & Eve incarnate on a populated, evolved earth that had already fallen. The beast was already working against Gods will. Death is normal, this isn't our permanent home. It was Adam and Eve specifically that lost their immortality status, not man.After a great deal of contemplation regarding the relationship of the science of evolutionary biology and population genetics with sacred scripture, and specifically the universal descent of man from Adam and Eve, I've formulated a "theory" of how these may relate. It is essentially a Covenantal Theory of Adam and Eve. I admit it is mere speculation, but I think it effectively bridges the apparent gap between evolutionary biology/genetics and sacred scripture.
1. Throughout biblical history, God deals with man by way of successive covenants.
2. God entered into covenant relationship with Adam and Eve.
3. Population genetics reveals to a high degree of probability that the population of homo sapien sapiens has not at any time dropped below aproximately two thousand individuals.
4. The bible clearly affirms the historicity of two individual humans from whom originate all modern humans.
5. Essential Christian doctrines, such as the universality of human fallenness, necessitate the historicity of this aforementioned original pair.
So what are we to make of these five points? I would argue that the answer is to be found by way of covenant.
The basics of the theory are as follows.
1. All life on earth, including human biology, has evolved by the decree and creative guiding providence of God as per the theory of evolutionary creationism.
2. As described by population genetics, there was in fact an original population pool of anatomically modern homo sapien sapiens likely to exceed two thousand individuals.
3. These "humans" though anatomically modern, were not in fact originally ensouled.
4. God in his providence elected two homo sapien sapiens, male and female, to be heirs of a divine covenant of works.
5. God sealed this covenant by way of the mystery of ensoulment, wherein he, in supernatural power, bestowed a soul upon this covenantal pair, thereby enabling the spiritual bond and freedom of will necessary to the relational essence of the covenant.
6. All modern humans are the genetic progency of this original covenantal pair, and are thereby heirs of this original covenant, whereby we inherit ensoulment, moral responsibility, as well as fallenness consequent the original violation of the covenant.
So basically, human anatomy evolved like all other life does. Yet all modern humans are descended from two elect homo-sapiens with whom God entered into a covenant, which he sealed by means of ensoulment. So Adam and Eve were two real individuals, from whom we all descend, AND we can embrace the scientific record of human evolution.
To me it makes more sense to consider that Adam & Eve incarnate on a populated, evolved earth that had already fallen. The beast was already working against Gods will. Death is normal, this isn't our permanent home.
It was Adam and Eve specifically that lost their immortality status, not man.
But it says they became like one of us, it also said they could no longer eat from the tree of life.You are right here but you contradict this next:
Adam and Eve were never immortal. They were "man" just as any of us are and as you said, "Death is normal". It was normal for Adam and Eve to grow old and die too. That was always the plan for mortal beings.
You are right here but you contradict this next:
Adam and Eve were never immortal. They were "man" just as any of us are and as you said, "Death is normal". It was normal for Adam and Eve to grow old and die too. That was always the plan for mortal beings.
But it says they became like one of us,
it also said they could no longer eat from the tree of life.
You aren't quoting all of it:
Gen 3:22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:
That's the only way they became like God and the angels.
They never ate from it because eating from it made one immortal which means death wouldn't have been possible. When they were kicked out of the garden, the way to the tree of life was blocked and guarded so they couldn't become immortal.
You aren't quoting all of it:
Gen 3:22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:
That's the only way they became like God and the angels.
They never ate from it because eating from it made one immortal which means death wouldn't have been possible. When they were kicked out of the garden, the way to the tree of life was blocked and guarded so they couldn't become immortal.
The fragmented story used to write Genesis leaves a bit to be desired but I see it the other way around. Adam and Eve had initially been immortal, they could use the tree.
Did it ever occur to you that when Adam and Eve sinned, they did so in the right way, upward to greater knowledge? You know, the early Christian gnostics thought so, and I am not sure but what they aren't correct.While they had permission to eat from it, we cannot say they did. I see it as a classic choice between right and wrong, the good tree or the bad and they chose the bad one.
Also, Paul speaks of Adam as being mortal so Adam was created mortal, was mortal his entire life and died because he was mortal.
Did it ever occur to you that when Adam and Eve sinned, they did so in the right way, upward to greater knowledge?
Hmmm. Well, see, I am not so sure. They lost their innocence, true. But that is the price to be paid for being bold enough to leave the comforts of home and step out into the real world and swim with the sharks.It wasn't the right way because it went against God and God punished them but they did receive "insight" from having their eyes opened but it was negative.
Hmmm. Well, see, I am not so sure. They lost their innocence, true. But that is the price to be paid for being bold enough to leave the comforts of home and step out into the real world and swim with the sharks.
Hmmm. Are you sure? Are you really sure? Lots of bad things happen to everyone when they go out into the big, bad world and try and swim with the sharks and find you sometimes have to make deals with the Devil.They did not benefit from what happened. Everything that happened to them was bad for them.
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