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You got me puzzled, EQW. I thought in a previous post you said you agreed that the notion that there were two very different creations here composed by authors at two very different times, with Gen. 2 being written long before Gen. 1
Also, the notion that Moses really really any part of the Pentateuch is long been passé.
God is the author not the ones He inspired to write. You are correct there are two different creation accounts regarding man and animals, one where animals are created before man and one where man is created before animals but it is merely two different creations many years apart not that there is a contradiction or the writers were confused.
Now, imagine a population of hominids in Africa. At some point, say, a million years ago, designate two as "Adam & Eve". From a Catholic standpoint, God gives these two the first souls - they are the first "full humans", even though they are very similar in most respects to everyone else at the time, and so their children can interbreed with the others. All their descendants also receive souls, and hence are also "fully human".
The idea of a population of transitional apes becoming human, with one pair designated as Adam and Eve seems fine theologically to me. Maybe discuss what difficulties there could be with this or that explanation?
in Christ-
Papias
That would be incorrect. There is only one account of creation. The first is the big picture and the second focus on day 6 for the most part.
In both accounts animals were created prior to man.
No, Gen 1 addresses the first week. Gen 2 shows us what happened after that first week.
Again, that simply isn't true in Gen 2:
Gen 2:5 And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew: for the LORD God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and there was not a man to till the ground.
Gen 2:6 But there went up a mist from the earth, and watered the whole face of the ground.
Gen 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
Man created first.
Gen 2:18 And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him.
Gen 2:19 And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.
Gen 2:20 And Adam gave names to all cattle, and to the fowl of the air, and to every beast of the field; but for Adam there was not found an help meet for him.
Animals created after Adam.
In Gen 1 the order is reversed with animals first and man last.
Gen 2:19 Now out of the ground the LORD God had formed every beast of the field and every bird of the heavens and brought them to the man to see what he would call them. And whatever the man called every living creature, that was its name.
1. All life on earth, including human biology, has evolved by the decree and creative guiding providence of God as per the theory of evolutionary creationism.
That's not what the verse says:
Gen 2:19 And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.
These animals were created after Adam was. The previous verse said he was alone.
Additional differences:
Genesis 1:20 And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.
Genesis 1:21 And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
Genesis 1:22 And God blessed them, saying, Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let fowl multiply in the earth.
This is the fifth day. God creates sealife and birds. Take note that fowls are also created from the waters.
Genesis 2:19 And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.
Yet in Gen. 2 we are told about fowls being created out of the ground, not out of the waters.
Genesis 1:24 And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so.
Genesis 1:25 And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
This is the 6th day. What does God make first? Land animals!
Genesis 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
Now man is made and has dominion over the animals that were made first.
1: animals created first.
2: man created last.
Genesis 1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
He makes the 6th day people both male and female!
Genesis 1:28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.
Tells them again to have dominion over the animals and the fish of the sea.
Genesis 2:4 These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens,
Genesis 2:5 And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew: for the LORD God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and there was not a man to till the ground.
God sees no man that would be for tilling the ground, farming. Historically mankind were not farmers but were primarily hunter-gatherers which modern Archeology has also proven.
Genesis 2:6 But there went up a mist from the earth, and watered the whole face of the ground.
Genesis 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
And he makes a man, alone. No female is created.
Genesis 2:15 And the LORD God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it.
Genesis 2:16 And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:
Genesis 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.
He is in charge of the garden of Eden, working alone.
Genesis 2:18 And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him.
God decides Adam needs help. Adam is alone! No animals are there!
Genesis 2:19 And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.
God makes animals to help Adam! In the 6th day animals were first, then men AND women, but on the 8th day one man is made, then animals. Also note that there is no mention of sea life. Why? Because there was no waters inside the garden for sea life.
Genesis 2:20 And Adam gave names to all cattle, and to the fowl of the air, and to every beast of the field; but for Adam there was not found an help meet for him.
But Adam needs a more direct helper...
Genesis 2:21 And the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof;
Genesis 2:22 And the rib, which the LORD God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man.
Genesis 2:23 And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.
Genesis 2:24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.
Genesis 2:25 And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed.
And now God creates female from Adam.
Genesis 1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
Genesis 1:28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.
6th day man wasn't in the garden but was told to subdue the earth and multiply. Adam and Eve were not told to subdue the earth, nor were they instructed to multiply. The 6th day ppl are told to subdue the fish of the sea but Adam was not, nor was Adam near the sea as he was inside of this garden inside of Eden. Adam's job was to take care of the garden of Eden which was a full time task.
Genesis 1:11 And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so.
Genesis 1:12 And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
Genesis 1:13 And the evening and the morning were the third day.
Trees bearing fruit were created before mankind was.
Genesis 2:8 And the LORD God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed.
Genesis 2:9 And out of the ground made the LORD God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.
But after the 7th day God created Adam before causing the trees in Eden to grow.
Recap of the facts:
Gen. 1 creation order: animals, men and women (plural) at the same time.
Gen. 2 creation order: one man, animals, then one woman.
For simplification ONLY, I will refer to the events after the 7th day as "8th day".
5th day- fowls of the air created out of the waters before man and before land animals
6th day- land animals created before man
8th day- man created before animals
8th day- fowls created at the same time as land animals, from the ground not the waters
6th day- male and female created at same time
8th day- man created first, then animals, then a female created
6th day- more than just a farmer
8th day- just a farmer
6th day- told to have dominion over everything on the earth and the sea, and to multiply
8th day- in charge of maintaining the garden in Eden only. No mention of fish or the sea and no mention of multiplying
6th day- fruit bearing trees created before man
8th day- fruit bearing trees created after man
Conclusion: Two different accounts of creating man and his environment. One is about a large number of people with dominion over everything, the other about a certain man, his environment which was a certain Garden within Eden, and his wife. God created things in different orders on the two different days of creation.
12 Therefore, just as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin,
and so death spread to all men, because all sinned--
In context, this reads that death was not the original design.
Wow, if you need to go through all that biblical gymnastics to demonstrate a point excepted by no one but you....I think I'll pass and stick with the natural reading of the verse and order of creation.
Currenty I know on no denomination...christian or cult that is trying to pass of what you're trying to pass off. Perhaps you could tell me just what denomination is presenting this interpretation as truth?
It comes from the bible, a true and natural reading of the order of events, undisputed by you or anyone else other than in automated denial. You cannot argue against any of the facts laid out so you have no other option to go after this invented idea that I must be part of some imaginary cultish type denomination. Typical ad hominem type tactics.
Why is there only one person who believes it? You.
That is neither evidence nor factual. This is simply the truth by consensus fallacy, following your version of the guilt by association fallacy in your previous post.
You're theology isn't convincing. You expect us to hop on board...drop all the theology from centuries past...and simply accept your translation?
If you're going to present something new...and truthful...it shouldn't be as hard as you make it.
It's not as hard to understand as you describe. You cannot explain why God made animals before man in Gen 1 but makes man before animals in Gen 2. It should be obvious why the two chapters don't match.
We've been over this. Both chapters match.
And the LORD God planted a garden in Eden, in the east, and there he put the man whom he had formed.
Now out of the ground the LORD God had formed every beast of the field and every bird of the heavens and brought them to the man to see what he would call them. And whatever the man called every living creature, that was its name.
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