Rebellion

[TomUK]

I was wondering earlier, after the second coming etc etc. and we're all living in harmony with God, could we still choose to rebel?

 

[Yekcidmij]

Maybe by that point you would have already made your decision not to rebel.

 

[Dad Ernie]

I was wondering earlier, after the second coming etc etc. and we're all living in harmony with God, could we still choose to rebel?

Greetings tomuea,

When we are taken to be with the Lord, we are CHANGED "to be like Him". So ask yourself if Jesus would rebel against the Father?

Blessings,

Dad Ernie

 

[FreeinChrist]

I was wondering earlier, after the second coming etc etc. and we're all living in harmony with God, could we still choose to rebel?

Rev 20:7 When the thousand years are completed, Satan will be released from his prison,Rev 20:8 and will come out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together for the war; the number of them is like the sand of the seashore.Rev 20:9 And they came up on the broad plain of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city, and fire came down from heaven and devoured them.
As a premillenialist, I believe that there is a rebellion at the end of the 1000 years. I believe this rebellion involves those born in the 1000 years.

 

[Atkin]

Rev 20:7 When the thousand years are completed, Satan will be released from his prison,Rev 20:8 and will come out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together for the war; the number of them is like the sand of the seashore.Rev 20:9 And they came up on the broad plain of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city, and fire came down from heaven and devoured them.
As a premillenialist, I believe that there is a rebellion at the end of the 1000 years. I believe this rebellion involves those born in the 1000 years.

The second advent will be a very frightening event.

Rebellions will cease.

 

[FreeinChrist]

The Second Advent is shown in Revelation 19:

Rev 19:11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse, and He who sat on it {is} called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He judges and wages war.Rev 19:12 His eyes {are} a flame of fire, and on His head {are} many diadems; and He has a name written {on Him} which no one knows except Himself.Rev 19:13 {He is} clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God.Rev 19:14 And the armies which are in heaven, clothed in fine linen, white {and} clean, were following Him on white horses.

Then:
Rev 20:1 Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, holding the key of the abyss and a great chain in his hand.Rev 20:2 And he laid hold of the dragon, the serpent of old, who is the devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years;Rev 20:3 and he threw him into the abyss, and shut {it} and sealed {it} over him, so that he would not deceive the nations any longer, until the thousand years were completed; after these things he must be released for a short time.

And then...at the end of the 1000 years...like I posted before. Of course, I am premillennial.

It seems inconceivable that folks would turn from God when Christ is on earth, but angels turned from God to follow Satan and they had been in His very presence at the throne.

 

[Atkin]

The Second Advent is shown in Revelation 19:

Rev 19:11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse, and He who sat on it {is} called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He judges and wages war.Rev 19:12 His eyes {are} a flame of fire, and on His head {are} many diadems; and He has a name written {on Him} which no one knows except Himself.Rev 19:13 {He is} clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God.Rev 19:14 And the armies which are in heaven, clothed in fine linen, white {and} clean, were following Him on white horses.

Then:
Rev 20:1 Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, holding the key of the abyss and a great chain in his hand.Rev 20:2 And he laid hold of the dragon, the serpent of old, who is the devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years;Rev 20:3 and he threw him into the abyss, and shut {it} and sealed {it} over him, so that he would not deceive the nations any longer, until the thousand years were completed; after these things he must be released for a short time.

And then...at the end of the 1000 years...like I posted before. Of course, I am premillennial.

It seems inconceivable that folks would turn from God when Christ is on earth, but angels turned from God to follow Satan and they had been in His very presence at the throne.

The critical issue is how Christ's return in Revelation 19:11 is not tied to

the vision of Revelation 20 although the abyss issue is listed after Revelation 19.

It is very very critical because we see that He ascends from the pit to deceive EVEN BEFORE Christ returns in Rev 19:11

Rev 17: and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition:
He comes from the pit and is togther with the 10 kings by second advent Rev 19:11.

 

[FreeinChrist]

The critical issue is how Christ's return in Revelation 19:11 is not tied to

the vision of Revelation 20 although the abyss issue is listed after Revelation 19.

It is very very critical because we see that He ascends from the pit to deceive EVEN BEFORE Christ returns in Rev 19:11

Rev 17: and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition:
He comes from the pit and is togther with the 10 kings by second advent Rev 19:11.

Rev. 17 is making a reference to the Antichrist, who is empowered by Satan. And the Antichrist is thrown down bfore the 1000 years. So yes, I think it matters very much that Rev. 19 has the return of Christ, and that Rev. 20 shows the AC thrown into the lake of fire (and he doesn't get out) ...then the 1000years in which Satan is confined, and then is let out briefly - at which time he will try rebellion.

 

[Atkin]

Rev. 17 is making a reference to the Antichrist, who is empowered by Satan. And the Antichrist is thrown down bfore the 1000 years. So yes, I think it matters very much that Rev. 19 has the return of Christ, and that Rev. 20 shows the AC thrown into the lake of fire (and he doesn't get out) ...then the 1000years in which Satan is confined, and then is let out briefly - at which time he will try rebellion.

Exactly. The Antichrist is empowered by Satan during the deception of nations after Satan's release from the pit.
The Antichrist cannot achieve that level of evil without the release of Satan from the pit. That is how the scripture could be consistent, because Satan is only released once from the pit.
It has to be consistent. By placing it towards the end in Revelation, it creates the impression that it is something far ahead of Jesus's return but once you realise that the AC is empowered by He who ascends from the pit (only once), it places Jesus's 2nd advent return after the
Satan's release from pit. Without that there is no way the antichrist would be able to do his evil and Satan needs to be let
loose to deceive the nations at the time Antichrist is oppressing people.

Christ would be sad at the thought that people have regarding the assumption that He would allow Satan to live with him in Heaven after all He went through in his 1st advent.

Satan is too unclean to come near the resurrected Christ in Heaven.

 

[FreeinChrist]

Exactly. The Antichrist is empowered by Satan during the deception of nations after Satan's release from the pit.
The Antichrist cannot achieve that level of evil without the release of Satan from the pit. That is how the scripture could be consistent, because Satan is only released once from the pit.

This is inconsistent with scripture, IMHO. Satan isn't in the pit now, nor does he live in heaven. He is, according to Paul, is prince of the power of the air (Ephesians 2:2). I don't see any scripture that Satan was put into the pit since Paul wrote Ephesians in 60's AD.
Then there is this:

Rev 19:19 And I saw the beast and the kings of the earth and their armies assembled to make war against Him who sat on the horse and against His army.Rev 19:20 And the beast was seized, and with him the false prophet who performed the signs in his presence, by which he deceived those who had received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image; these two were thrown alive into the lake of fire which burns with brimstone.

Rev 20:1 Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, holding the key of the abyss and a great chain in his hand.Rev 20:2 And he laid hold of the dragon, the serpent of old, who is the devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years;Rev 20:3 and he threw him into the abyss, and shut {it} and sealed {it} over him, so that he would not deceive the nations any longer, until the thousand years were completed; after these things he must be released for a short time.

Rev 20:7 When the thousand years are completed, Satan will be released from his prison,Rev 20:8 and will come out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together for the war; the number of them is like the sand of the seashore.


I see no indication that Satan is locked away for a thousand years before the Antichrist is empowered. From this passage, it is evident that while locked away, Satan has no influence. Can't see that he hasn't had influence in the last 2000 years.

And the one who is released from the pit in Rev. 17 is not Satan, but the future Antichrist.
Rev 17:7 And the angel said to me, "Why do you wonder? I will tell you the mystery of the woman and of the beast that carries her, which has the seven heads and the ten horns.Rev 17:8 "The beast that you saw was, and is not, and is about to come up out of the abyss and go to destruction. And those who dwell on the earth, whose name has not been written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, will wonder when they see the beast, that he was and is not and will come.

The Antichrist is described as this: Rev 17:11 "The beast which was and is not, is himself also an eighth and is {one} of the seven, and he goes to destruction.


Now compare:

Rev 13:1 And the dragon stood on the sand of the seashore. Then I saw a beast coming up out of the sea, having ten horns and seven heads, and on his horns {were} ten diadems, and on his heads {were} blasphemous names.



Rev 17:3 And he carried me away in the Spirit into a wilderness; and I saw a woman sitting on a scarlet beast, full of blasphemous names, having seven heads and ten horns.

So I have to stay with what I see as the correct scriptural interpretaion - that the AC (beast) is defeated at the Second Coming, Satan(dragon) is confinedin the pit, Christ reigns for 1000 years on earth, Satan is released at the end of 100 years, decieves the nations - but is quickly defeated and then goes to the lake of fire.

Christ would be sad at the thought that people have regarding the assumption that He would allow Satan to live with him in Heaven after all He went through in his 1st advent.

gimme a break! Please disagree with me using scripture, rather than implying I believe differently than I do!

Exactly WHO believes that Satan is living WITH Christ in heaven ? He was cast out when he fell. Paul apparently doesn't believe he is in the pit. Instead, there is this - in scripture:
Eph 2:2 in which you formerly walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, of the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience.



Eph 6:11 Put on the full armor of God, so that you will be able to stand firm against the schemes of the devil.Eph 6:12 For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the powers, against the world forces of this darkness, against the spiritual {forces} of wickedness in the heavenly {places.}Eph 6:13 Therefore, take up the full armor of God, so that you will be able to resist in the evil day, and having done everything, to stand firm.
An no, 6:12 does not imply Satan lives in heaven with Christ either. Do you know what three places are referred to as heaven?
1st heaven - the firmament, our atmosphere
2nd heaven - space, the universe
3rd heaven - where the throne of God is

Now Paul refers to the thrid heaven here:
2Cr 12:2 I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago--whether in the body I do not know, or out of the body I do not know, God knows--such a man was caught up to the third heaven
What do you think 'prince of the power of the air' means?

 

[Atkin]

This is inconsistent with scripture, IMHO. Satan isn't in the pit now, nor does he live in heaven. He is, according to Paul, is prince of the power of the air (Ephesians 2:2). I don't see any scripture that Satan was put into the pit since Paul wrote Ephesians in 60's AD.
Then there is this:

Rev 19:19 And I saw the beast and the kings of the earth and their armies assembled to make war against Him who sat on the horse and against His army.Rev 19:20 And the beast was seized, and with him the false prophet who performed the signs in his presence, by which he deceived those who had received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image; these two were thrown alive into the lake of fire which burns with brimstone.

Rev 20:1 Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, holding the key of the abyss and a great chain in his hand.Rev 20:2 And he laid hold of the dragon, the serpent of old, who is the devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years;Rev 20:3 and he threw him into the abyss, and shut {it} and sealed {it} over him, so that he would not deceive the nations any longer, until the thousand years were completed; after these things he must be released for a short time.

Rev 20:7 When the thousand years are completed, Satan will be released from his prison,Rev 20:8 and will come out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together for the war; the number of them is like the sand of the seashore.


I see no indication that Satan is locked away for a thousand years before the Antichrist is empowered. From this passage, it is evident that while locked away, Satan has no influence. Can't see that he hasn't had influence in the last 2000 years.

And the one who is released from the pit in Rev. 17 is not Satan, but the future Antichrist.
Rev 17:7 And the angel said to me, "Why do you wonder? I will tell you the mystery of the woman and of the beast that carries her, which has the seven heads and the ten horns.Rev 17:8 "The beast that you saw was, and is not, and is about to come up out of the abyss and go to destruction. And those who dwell on the earth, whose name has not been written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, will wonder when they see the beast, that he was and is not and will come.

The Antichrist is described as this: Rev 17:11 "The beast which was and is not, is himself also an eighth and is {one} of the seven, and he goes to destruction.


Now compare:

Rev 13:1 And the dragon stood on the sand of the seashore. Then I saw a beast coming up out of the sea, having ten horns and seven heads, and on his horns {were} ten diadems, and on his heads {were} blasphemous names.



Rev 17:3 And he carried me away in the Spirit into a wilderness; and I saw a woman sitting on a scarlet beast, full of blasphemous names, having seven heads and ten horns.

So I have to stay with what I see as the correct scriptural interpretaion - that the AC (beast) is defeated at the Second Coming, Satan(dragon) is confinedin the pit, Christ reigns for 1000 years on earth, Satan is released at the end of 100 years, decieves the nations - but is quickly defeated and then goes to the lake of fire.

gimme a break! Please disagree with me using scripture, rather than implying I believe differently than I do!

Exactly WHO believes that Satan is living WITH Christ in heaven ? He was cast out when he fell. Paul apparently doesn't believe he is in the pit. Instead, there is this - in scripture:
Eph 2:2 in which you formerly walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, of the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience.




An no, 6:12 does not imply Satan lives in heaven with Christ either. Do you know what three places are referred to as heaven?
1st heaven - the firmament, our atmosphere
2nd heaven - space, the universe
3rd heaven - where the throne of God is

Now Paul refers to the thrid heaven here:
2Cr 12:2 I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago--whether in the body I do not know, or out of the body I do not know, God knows--such a man was caught up to the third heaven
What do you think 'prince of the power of the air' means?

I will start first with the serious concept of how to prove existence of human sin is valid proof that Satan is not sealed.

Satan has been in the air doing his "power" acts of deception, but there is a duration for that. Your point regarding Satan's influence in the last 2000 years, is based on the assumption that human ignorance in human deviation and the existence of human depravity, CONFIRMS that Satan is not sealed in the pit.

What you forget is that the human being is not a slave to satan and with the gift of the very complex human brain, the standards set by God for humans are very high and He is perfectly right in setting high standards, irrespective of Satan's existence.

That assumption of humans being in sin today THUS PROVING Satan is not sealed is not justified and I would like to clearly focus on that aspect since it forms a basis for certain views expressed. Christ defeated Satan and ushered in human order but humans under accumulation of free willed errors, have still deviated.

After the passage of years since creation, the accumulation of deviations from God's way has been so severe that human beings easily fall to temptations and transgress regarding sin based on their own errors
and not because somone told them to do it. You cannot avoid that fact.

The first mistake made is to say-- Oh well, we still have violence and conflict to Satan is the one responsible. Could you seriously place all blame on Satan?
No. The human has a brain and must determine right from wrong after all the help and guidance God has given the human being especially by giving the human a brain meeting certain specifications.

I will ask a question that would bring to light some of the points i intend
discussing further regarding your views listed.

How does human desire to err, to cheat, to hate, to lie and to acquire
ill gotten gains [be it personal, corporate, national and international]
among many others, VANISH as proof of the fact that Satan is sealed in the pit.?

-----
Revelation [size=+2]20[/size].
2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
------

That is, please explain how these acquired human tendencies pased down for centuries and centuries vaporise into nothingness and into thin air merely
because Satan is sealed in the pit.

The Bible is very clear about NOT DETAILING anything about what humans do OR DO NOT DO while Satan is in the pit. Christ gave humans what was needed to remain in purity WITH OR WITHOUT SATAN being present on earth.

Nobody is going to take the fall for any human, Satan has his own problems.

Again, my major question here is this--
That is, please explain how these acquired human tendencies pased down for centuries and centuries vaporise into nothingness and into thin air merely
because Satan is sealed in the pit.

Revelation 20:1-3 DOES NOT speak of any behavioral change by humans as a result of Satan being in the pit. No change at all in the overall presence of sin is stated in those first 3 verses describing when Satan is sealed in the pit.

That SUPPOSED behavioral change in humans as proof of the fact that Satan has been sealed BEFORE humans act as pure believers
that the Messiah would be proud of, is based on human doctrine. Satan does not deceive the nations, BUT the the Bible does not state that AND HUMANS became like angels after Satan was sealed. Simply not true and humans continued in their own errors after that time.

 

[FreeinChrist]

Well, you aren't using scripture to back your position up - just human reasoning.

You need to prove that Paul is wrong when he wrote:

Eph 6:11 Put on the full armor of God, so that you will be able to stand firm against the schemes of the devil.Eph 6:12 For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the powers, against the world forces of this darkness, against the spiritual {forces} of wickedness in the heavenly {places.}Eph 6:13 Therefore, take up the full armor of God, so that you will be able to resist in the evil day, and having done everything, to stand firm.

A passage that you left out when quoting my post.

"That assumption of humans being in sin today THUS PROVING Satan is not sealed is not justified and I would like to clearly focus on that aspect since it forms a basis for certain views expressed. Christ defeated Satan and ushered in human order but humans under accumulation of free willed errors, have still deviated."

Christ defeated Satan in that those who accept Him will have passed from death into life (And in the future, when all enimies are under his feet, Satan will be truly destroyed). Those that do not accept Him are not. Two applicable scriptures:
Hbr 2:14 Therefore, since the children share in flesh and blood, He Himself likewise also partook of the same, that through death He might render powerless him who had the power of death, that is, the devil,Hbr 2:15 and might free those who through fear of death were subject to slavery all their lives.
Jhn 5:24 "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

The person making the assumption is the one who assumes that Satan is sealed and not at work in this world - and cannot provide the scripture to show he is sealed in the pit. To say he is sealed and has no influence contradicts this:

Eph 6:13 Therefore, take up the full armor of God, so that you will be able to resist in the evil day, and having done everything, to stand firm.
AND
1Pe 5:8 Be of sober {spirit,} be on the alert. Your adversary, the devil, prowls around like a roaring lion, seeking someone to devour.1Pe 5:9 But resist him, firm in {your} faith, knowing that the same experiences of suffering are being accomplished by your brethren who are in the world.
And

Jam 4:7 Submit therefore to God. Resist the devil and he will flee from you.

2Cr 2:10 But one whom you forgive anything, I {forgive} also; for indeed what I have forgiven, if I have forgiven anything, {I did it} for your sakes in the presence of Christ,2Cr 2:11 so that no advantage would be taken of us by Satan, for we are not ignorant of his schemes.

2Cr 11:13 For such men are false apostles, deceitful workers, disguising themselves as apostles of Christ.2Cr 11:14 No wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light.
1Th 2:18 For we wanted to come to you--I, Paul, more than once--and {yet} Satan hindered us.

I see no scriptural indication that Satan is sealed in a pit, without influence. I don't lay all blame of sin on him, ignoring the bad choices people make everyday. But I do not deny his influence either. And I will need a scriptural basis to change my mind.

 

[Atkin]

Well, you aren't using scripture to back your position up - just human reasoning.

You need to prove that Paul is wrong when he wrote:

Eph 6:11 Put on the full armor of God, so that you will be able to stand firm against the schemes of the devil.Eph 6:12 For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the powers, against the world forces of this darkness, against the spiritual {forces} of wickedness in the heavenly {places.}Eph 6:13 Therefore, take up the full armor of God, so that you will be able to resist in the evil day, and having done everything, to stand firm.

A passage that you left out when quoting my post.

"That assumption of humans being in sin today THUS PROVING Satan is not sealed is not justified and I would like to clearly focus on that aspect since it forms a basis for certain views expressed. Christ defeated Satan and ushered in human order but humans under accumulation of free willed errors, have still deviated."

Christ defeated Satan in that those who accept Him will have passed from death into life (And in the future, when all enimies are under his feet, Satan will be truly destroyed). Those that do not accept Him are not. Two applicable scriptures:
Hbr 2:14 Therefore, since the children share in flesh and blood, He Himself likewise also partook of the same, that through death He might render powerless him who had the power of death, that is, the devil,Hbr 2:15 and might free those who through fear of death were subject to slavery all their lives.
Jhn 5:24 "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

The person making the assumption is the one who assumes that Satan is sealed and not at work in this world - and cannot provide the scripture to show he is sealed in the pit. To say he is sealed and has no influence contradicts this:

On what grounds would God justly cast humans in the lake of fire, IF SATAN
IS THAT MUCH OF AN INFLUENCE.?

Please explain how the just God would proceed since the already dead humans would start complaining just as you are , that THEY WERE under this so called influence of Satan.

This is not an issue to trifle with at all.

So, who is this Satan?

 

[FreeinChrist]

On what grounds would God justly cast humans in the lake of fire, IF SATAN
IS THAT MUCH OF AN INFLUENCE.?

Rom 5:12 Therefore, just as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men, because all sinned--

Rom 1:20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse.
Original sin. We are all born with it. And our works cannot earn our entrance to heaven. We are only saved by the grace of God.

But that does not preclude Satan as having an influence?
I already posted the scripture to back my position.
What scripture can you show me that Satan is sealed in the pit, that he has no influence in the world?

Please explain how the just God would proceed since the already dead humans would start complaining just as you are , that THEY WERE under this so called influence of Satan.

I'm complaining? No...I think that you cannot provide scripture to back your view up and so you are lashing out at me personally.

This is not an issue to trifle with at all.

So, who is this Satan?

I have to admit that I am curious about your denominational affiliation.
I already posted a number of scriptures....but here's a few more that are more direct to that last question - and i will make a few things bold:
Job 1:6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan also came among them.Job 1:7 The LORD said to Satan, "From where do you come?" Then Satan answered the LORD and said, "From roaming about on the earth and walking around on it."

Eze 28:12 "Son of man, take up a lamentation over the king of Tyre and say to him, 'Thus says the Lord GOD, "You had the seal of perfection, Full of wisdom and perfect in beauty.Eze 28:13 "You were in Eden, the garden of God; Every precious stone was your covering: The ruby, the topaz and the diamond; The beryl, the onyx and the jasper; The lapis lazuli, the turquoise and the emerald; And the gold, the workmanship of your settings and sockets, Was in you. On the day that you were created They were prepared.Eze 28:14 "You were the anointed cherub who covers, And I placed you {there.} You were on the holy mountain of God; You walked in the midst of the stones of fire.Eze 28:15 "You were blameless in your ways From the day you were created Until unrighteousness was found in you.Eze 28:16 "By the abundance of your trade You were internally filled with violence, And you sinned; Therefore I have cast you as profane From the mountain of God. And I have destroyed you, O covering cherub, From the midst of the stones of fire.Eze 28:17 "Your heart was lifted up because of your beauty; You corrupted your wisdom by reason of your splendor. I cast you to the ground; I put you before kings, That they may see you.Eze 28:18 "By the multitude of your iniquities, In the unrighteousness of your trade You profaned your sanctuaries. Therefore I have brought fire from the midst of you; It has consumed you, And I have turned you to ashes on the earth In the eyes of all who see you.Eze 28:19 "All who know you among the peoples Are appalled at you; You have become terrified And you will cease to be forever.'""


Mat 4:8 Again, the devil *took Him to a very high mountain and *showed Him all the kingdoms of the world and their glory;Mat 4:9 and he said to Him, "All these things I will give You, if You fall down and worship me."Mat 4:10 Then Jesus *said to him, "Go, Satan! For it is written, 'YOU SHALL WORSHIP THE LORD YOUR GOD, AND SERVE HIM ONLY.' "Mat 4:11 Then the devil *left Him; and behold, angels came and {began} to minister to Him.

1Cr 7:5 Stop depriving one another, except by agreement for a time, so that you may devote yourselves to prayer, and come together again so that Satan will not tempt you because of your lack of self-control.

Jhn 8:44 "You are of {your} father the devil, and you want to do the desires of your father. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth because there is no truth in him. Whenever he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own {nature,} for he is a liar and the father of lies.

Satan is a fallen angel. He influences by lying and tempting - which he has been doing since Eden.

Now - what about this verse is wrong?
Eph 6:12 For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the powers, against the world forces of this darkness, against the spiritual {forces} of wickedness in the heavenly {places.}Eph 6:13 Therefore, take up the full armor of God, so that you will be able to resist in the evil day, and having done everything, to stand firm.

 

[ikester]

well I thought I might comment...but it seems Free has all the bases covered...good post......

 

[Atkin]

But that does not preclude Satan as having an influence?
I already posted the scripture to back my position.
What scripture can you show me that Satan is sealed in the pit, that he has no influence in the world?




I'm complaining? No...I think that you cannot provide scripture to back your view up and so you are lashing out at me personally.

I have to admit that I am curious about your denominational affiliation.
I already posted a number of scriptures....but here's a few more that are more direct to that last question - and i will make a few things bold:
Job 1:6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan also came among them.Job 1:7 The LORD said to Satan, "From where do you come?" Then Satan answered the LORD and said, "From roaming about on the earth and walking around on it."

How would you feel is you saw just one human being who was not affected

by Satan? Would you argue with the person, force the person to succumb

or to increase the apparent magnitude of Satan's power to justify human sin.?

I am very curious to know because your view of Satan could be an amplified

view and as such, could easily lure people into believing that Satan still has

influence on earth.

Of course we know Satan is described as roaming the earth and Satan tempted Christ during his advent.
We are not debating about Satan's documented actions centuries in the past.

There is nothing to show TODAY that God will not find one human being who is not at all impressed with any effects of Satan TODAY and who would confirm that the human excuse for Satan TODAY is false.

What would be your reaction if you came across such a human, who knows full well that the presence of Satan on earth SOME TIME AGO, is no excuse for humans to assume Satan is a factor in their OWN ERRORS.?

 

[Linda8]

Rev 19:19 And I saw the beast and the kings of the earth and their armies assembled to make war against Him who sat on the horse and against His army.Rev 19:20 And the beast was seized, and with him the false prophet who performed the signs in his presence, by which he deceived those who had received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image; these two were thrown alive into the lake of fire which burns with brimstone.

The countless people who make up the Beast were part of the Beast WHEN it rose out of the sea in Revelation 13:1-3
How many people have made up the Beast from its days as a lion
through its days as a Bear beast, to a leopard Beast and its stamping to pieces Iron Beast that gives rise to the little horn as well as its 10 horns and even into the future?
How long did the Beast stay as a lion (it was Gold as well in that time)

Which head of the Beast would be called an anti Christ and which
of the heads would be anti-God... that is the Beast in its existence before Christ's birth?

 

[FreeinChrist]

Scripture, Atkin? All you are doing is using your own reasoning. And at this point, you are arguing with scripture including all that I gave.

Eph 6:12 For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the powers, against the world forces of this darkness, against the spiritual {forces} of wickedness in the heavenly {places.}Eph 6:13 Therefore, take up the full armor of God, so that you will be able to resist in the evil day, and having done everything, to stand firm.

1Pe 5:8 Be of sober {spirit,} be on the alert. Your adversary, the devil, prowls around like a roaring lion, seeking someone to devour.1Pe 5:9 But resist him, firm in {your} faith, knowing that the same experiences of suffering are being accomplished by your brethren who are in the world.


1Th 2:18 For we wanted to come to you--I, Paul, more than once--and {yet} Satan hindered us.

These three passages are written a number of years after the death and resurrection of Christ.

What event occurred that marks the sealing of Satan in the pit? It had to occur after 60 - 64 AD - the approximate time that Ephesians was written.

 

[FreeinChrist]

The countless people who make up the Beast were part of the Beast WHEN it rose out of the sea in Revelation 13:1-3
How many people have made up the Beast from its days as a lion
through its days as a Bear beast, to a leopard Beast and its stamping to pieces Iron Beast that gives rise to the little horn as well as its 10 horns and even into the future?
How long did the Beast stay as a lion (it was Gold as well in that time)

Which head of the Beast would be called an anti Christ and which
of the heads would be anti-God... that is the Beast in its existence before Christ's birth?

I'm sorry, but your post does not make sense to me at all. And i believe it is off the current discussion.


The number of the beast in Rev. 13 is 666 - and it is the 'the number of a man."

By the way - do YOU believe or not believe that Satan has any influence on people in the world today?

 

[GodsWatchman]

By the way - do YOU believe or not believe that Satan has any influence on people in the world today?

I was wondering - I can think of two right off hand. How many "names" and descriptions are in the Word that describe his (the devils') job on earth?

the Accuser of the brethren - Shoving guilt in our face to cause us to NOT BELIEVE the forgiveness that we had already recieved.

the Tempter - Those things that just "pop" into your mind - I REBUKE YOU SATAN!

...I bet there is a long chain of these types of things. The evidence of his existance outside the realm of our day-to-day sinly nature stems from this.

I believe the sole purpose of the devil is to Chasten Gods people into alignment with Him. He is the angel of death - and was/is used by God as "a tool". Check out Pauls direct use of this "tool":

1Co 5:5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

Of course he's not bound - he's crawling all over this fleshly planet.