reasoning behind so many prohibitions

[Princessdi]

...and your point is....?

Says a person who quotes in her signature Mohandas Gandhi who was a member of the Theosophical Society founded by Helena Blavatsky.

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

...and your point is....?

What he is saying Princess, is we need to be careful whom we get our beliefs and understanding of truthes from.

The Ghandi quote is overtly ecumenical and New Age in it's statement....

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

It's interesting, speaking of cults, that the accusation by the protestant denominations towards Adventism being a cult is what brought in the spurious Questions on Doctrine and the apostacy it has wrought within the church.

So sad that a people that were to be distinct and seperate from the world, felt the need for acceptance to the point of renouncing key aspects of their beliefs...

 

[Princessdi]

You guys have to be kidding me. All it asks is that we learn and respect other's beliefs. I don't believe that anyone here is so weak in their faith that some repsect for others would be harmful. Are you all that shakey in your faith? If so, how do you expect to witness to those of different beliefs(which is done all the time) and stand up to their questions? Will they be able to turn the tables and evangelize you because you are that weak? I don't think so, but that is just taken from your posts here. If we are so weak, how will any of us survive during the time of trouble our own prophecy forsees. if you can stand a question now, you are in big trouble in the face of torture or even death.

I like the quote and the respect for all God's children and where they are, just as God does. I didn't know anything about the woman he mentioned, but always willing to learn I looked it up. I then saw what the problem was. I think we have to be a little stronger than that in our faith in God.

What he is saying Princess, is we need to be careful whom we get our beliefs and understanding of truthes from.

The Ghandi quote is overtly ecumenical and New Age in it's statement....

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

You guys have to be kidding me. All it asks is that we learn and respect other's beliefs. I don't believe that anyone here is so weak in their faith that some repsect for others would be harmful. Are you all that shakey in your faith? If so, how do you expect to witness to those of different beliefs(which is done all the time) and stand up to their questions? Will they be able to turn the tables and evangelize you because you are that weak? I don't think so, but that is just taken from your posts here. If we are so weak, how will any of us survive during the time of trouble our own prophecy forsees. if you can stand a question now, you are in big trouble in the face of torture or even death.

I like the quote and the respect for all God's children and where they are, just as God does. I didn't know anything about the woman he mentioned, but always willing to learn I looked it up. I then saw what the problem was. I think we have to be a little stronger than that in our faith in God.

You see in it what you will sister, I see danger.... would you take this advice and study the practice of Wicca or other occult 'religions'? The quote says it is our 'duty' to do so... thats not what the Bible tells us.

Ecc 12:12,13

And further, by these, my son, be admonished: of making many books there is no end; and much study is a weariness of the flesh.

Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.

 

[OntheDL]

You guys have to be kidding me. All it asks is that we learn and respect other's beliefs. I don't believe that anyone here is so weak in their faith that some repsect for others would be harmful. Are you all that shakey in your faith? If so, how do you expect to witness to those of different beliefs(which is done all the time) and stand up to their questions? Will they be able to turn the tables and evangelize you because you are that weak? I don't think so, but that is just taken from your posts here. If we are so weak, how will any of us survive during the time of trouble our own prophecy forsees. if you can stand a question now, you are in big trouble in the face of torture or even death.

I like the quote and the respect for all God's children and where they are, just as God does. I didn't know anything about the woman he mentioned, but always willing to learn I looked it up. I then saw what the problem was. I think we have to be a little stronger than that in our faith in God.

If you go back to see my posts, I quoted scriptures to defend our beliefs. Isn't that what the bible tells us to do? How is it weak?

You criticized Adventist teachings being not all good/Christian. How do you know? If you have the light, wouldn't God have revealed to you that Gandhi was a member of the Theosophical Society which is an Illuminati organization founded by Helena Blavatsky who communicated with demons and openly worshiped Lucifer?

 

[Princessdi]

I see what you mean. ECR. I don't take it as saying some comprehension study, but just enough to understand where they are coming from. Maybe a cursory understanding. Not study Wiccans and try to do spells. That is overstating, I believe. I happen to think that is even important in case you run into these people. I believe many foks are involved in anything because they are searching. I think it would help in getting them the answers they seek. To even be able to give a defense to their beliefs. We like to pass around these rumors that are meant to scare people from joining or even talking to anyone outside of the denom, and fear never works. A little knowledge goes a long way.


On the DL......chill. I did not criticize ALL Adventist teachings/writings, not all are good. Everyone who claims the SDA name, are not SDA. They write books, they have websites who attract SDAs by claming to be so, and then after reading through some truth, then they .folks are hit with error.......do you understand my meaning now? There are some newer members at my church now who have gotten hold to some bad teachings online, and boy is it a mess. You always have to be careful!

You see in it what you will sister, I see danger.... would you take this advice and study the practice of Wicca or other occult 'religions'? The quote says it is our 'duty' to do so... thats not what the Bible tells us.

Ecc 12:12,13

And further, by these, my son, be admonished: of making many books there is no end; and much study is a weariness of the flesh.

Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.

 

[Pythons]

Please, spare me. Do you tell people you are a member of the Catholic Cult, or Catholic Church?

It depends on the person I'm talking to....
...Devotion to distinctives are usually called a "cult".
...Marian Doctrine would be considered a "cult" just like Sabbath Devotion would be called a "cult".

It does not have to be negative.

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

Societies common understanding of the word cult has obvious negative conotations....

...however, Pythons is correct in his use of the word

cult

[kuhlt]
–noun
1. a particular system of religious worship, especially with reference to its rites and ceremonies.

2. an instance of great veneration of a person, ideal, or thing, especially as manifested by a body of admirers: the physical fitness cult.

3. the object of such devotion.

 

[Pythons]

Societies common understanding of the word cult has obvious negative conotations....

...however, Pythons is correct in his use of the word

The LOR & Heaven's Gate 'cults' come to mind.....
...The Evangelical communion calls any self professed Christian system that rejects the Trinity - 'cults'.
....You're right, it's now considered a serious negative.


I lost a friend and co-worker months back and his family held a Rosary for him.....
...Many people who worked with this man attended out of respect but few have any Religious education at all.
...The following day the big talk around work was what kind of a cult, cultic mantra, hokus pokus, etc.


I took a beating from my co-worker hotties who attributed my prayers to old fashioned brainwashing that does not have a place in the world any longer....
....Of course the same people don't know the difference between a covenant and the Trinity so I just took it.
.....And thought to myself - just wait until you get a little older and wiser.

 

[OntheDL]

I see what you mean. ECR. I don't take it as saying some comprehension study, but just enough to understand where they are coming from. Maybe a cursory understanding. Not study Wiccans and try to do spells. That is overstating, I believe. I happen to think that is even important in case you run into these people. I believe many foks are involved in anything because they are searching. I think it would help in getting them the answers they seek. To even be able to give a defense to their beliefs. We like to pass around these rumors that are meant to scare people from joining or even talking to anyone outside of the denom, and fear never works. A little knowledge goes a long way.


On the DL......chill. I did not criticize ALL Adventist teachings/writings, not all are good. Everyone who claims the SDA name, are not SDA. They write books, they have websites who attract SDAs by claming to be so, and then after reading through some truth, then they .folks are hit with error.......do you understand my meaning now? There are some newer members at my church now who have gotten hold to some bad teachings online, and boy is it a mess. You always have to be careful!

Wait a second...you are the one who said I'm weak with my faith and I need to 'chill'?

This thread is about some aspects of SDA beliefs and practices. You said not all are good and Christian.

The bad teachings? Who are you talking about? Are you talking about some independent ministries? At least they are trying unlike GC and local conferences?

We were never meant to be a denomination. We are a movement, a calling out movement. From what I understand you have been a SDA for a long time yet do not believe in our message. Do you understand what differentiates us from the rest of the 'Christianity'?

Be careful which side you are on and be careful whose influence you are receiving...judging by your signature.

 

[Princessdi]

Wait a second...you are the one who said I'm weak with my faith and I need to 'chill'?

I didn't say you were weak, I asked did you believe that you were that weak that you could not stand to read something that did not agree with you current beliefs and be swayed. That was actually a question, rhetorical at that.

This thread is about some aspects of SDA beliefs and practices. You said not all are good and Christian.

The bad teachings? Who are you talking about? Are you talking about some independent ministries? At least they are trying unlike GC and local conferences?

Now I agree, here I coiuld be more clear. All that call themselves SDA and/or using SDA somewhere in their name....on the surface(especially on the internet), sometimes end up being fringe groups. This is what I believe the members of my church have run across and gotten hold to some bad "doctrine".

We were never meant to be a denomination. We are a movement, a calling out movement. From what I understand you have been a SDA for a long time yet do not believe in our message. Do you understand what differentiates us from the rest of the 'Christianity'?

Oh I understand, believe me. I have heard it for 53 years, I know it for sure. I agree that we were supposed to be something different from a denom, but here were are and it is what it is.....a denomination whether we like it or not. I believe in the message, but I don't believe in how the message and the God of the message are presented or even represented.

From what you understand? Who have you been talking to? Just ask me if you want to know anything,,, I am glad to answers question for and about myself...........

Be careful which side you are on and be careful whose influence you are receiving...judging by your signature.

I will say this, though, I do agree with you on this to a point, that you have to be careful about where you get your doctrine. However, at some point when you are convicted, and mature and know what you believe, through a love relationship with Christ, you have nothing to fear from the knowledge of what someone else believes or even a decent mutually respectful conversation. We are not always going to meet or be called to witness to people who have no beliefs. Sometimes they will come with beliefs of their own. Disrespect for their current beliefs willl not incline them to want to hear what you have to say. You[general} claim to be representative of a loving God and you start out with no love at all...how is that going to work? I'm jes' sayin........... BTW, I am on the Lord's side, and fortunately for me, your opinion of which side I am on, doesn't count.....and visa versa.......but then I would not think to question or judge your relationship with God.

 

[JohnMarsten]

I used to be an SDA in my teenage years but I left after a few years -- I felt like I was being suffocated -- suffocated by so many prohibitions like no dancing, no drinking coffee, eating chocolate, no drinking Coke, no jewelry, no make-up, no pants, no going to the movies, no wine. What is the reasoning behind all these prohibitions? Personally for me it isolated me from my family and friends. I also feel that these prohibitions foster a spirit of hyprocricy among your members -- since I know of many SDA that do all these things behind the purview of the church. Anyway I think these things should not be prohibited but need guidelines. Ellen G. White preached temperance not total prohibition. Also some of these things are permitted in the Bible by God. Don't get offended, I am saying all these things out of love.

the reason behind it is control and isolation. once you agree to obey all of these man made rules you show that you agree to the terms and acknowledge the supremacy of the church over you. moreover, these rules will keep you isolated from the rest of the word (remember friendship with the world is enmity to God) so you will not fall into temptation of seeking deeper acqauintances (i may wrong on this one) with non-adventist people since it is always better to be with those that agree with you and those rules (how can two walk together unless they agree). the only way that will allow for meeting non adventist is missionary work, if people convert and by doing so agree to the terms its ok, if they vehemently disagree you cant do nothing about it and well, have to move on cause there is no point otherwise in continuing it...

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

the reason behind it is control and isolation. once you agree to obey all of these man made rules you show that you agree to the terms and acknowledge the supremacy of the church over you. moreover, these rules will keep you isolated from the rest of the word (remember friendship with the world is enmity to God) so you will not fall into temptation of seeking deeper acqauintances (i may wrong on this one) with non-adventist people since it is always better to be with those that agree with you and those rules (how can two walk together unless they agree). the only way that will allow for meeting non adventist is missionary work, if people convert and by doing so agree to the terms its ok, if they vehemently disagree you cant do nothing about it and well, have to move on cause there is no point otherwise in continuing it...

Once again, we have been given the example on this matter in the OT. The Israelites were not to mingle and associate with the heathen nations for a reason. Look at the results each time they did... a falling away through apostasy.
God does not give us these instructions to control us, He does so because He knows better than we what is best for us in drawing closer to Him.

The Adventist church has suffered this same fate since we have sought the approval of the world. The work of Prescott and Froome has weakened our pioneer understandings on many fronts and has left us divided and listless.

 

[JohnMarsten]

Once again, we have been given the example on this matter in the OT. The Israelites were not to mingle and associate with the heathen nations for a reason. Look at the results each time they did... a falling away through apostasy.
God does not give us these instructions to control us, He does so because He knows better than we what is best for us in drawing closer to Him.

The Adventist church has suffered this same fate since we have sought the approval of the world. The work of Prescott and Froome has weakened our pioneer understandings on many fronts and has left us divided and listless.

alright! I confess, the reasons I gave were a little but provocative... they were based on observation however, so you may call em the results of the whole procedure (this does not necessarily mean that they arent the reasons behind it, though)

The whole problem with the matter is, as a matter of fact, where does mingling with the heathens begin and where does it end?? endless possibilities arise and one is the left in the position that doing nothing at all is the best gain, it also leads to the condemnation of others...

am I right in the understanding that referring to the word heathen (O.T.) you allude to all the other non-sda churches around that differ in one way or the other??

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

am I right in the understanding that referring to the word heathen (O.T.) you allude to all the other non-sda churches around that differ in one way or the other??

My definition of a 'heathen' is framed in their attitude. If a neighbour has a genuine interest in the Word of God and a teachable spirit or if a memeber of another denomination has a zeal for Christ but is in error in their beliefs on Sabbath, state of the dead etc, then they are worthy to fellowship with. If, on the other hand, a neighbour or even a fellow Adventist, has a combative, scoffing nature and is not interested in the truth, then they would be, to me, dangerous to fellowship with.

 

[JohnMarsten]

My definition of a 'heathen' is framed in their attitude. If a neighbour has a genuine interest in the Word of God and a teachable spirit or if a memeber of another denomination has a zeal for Christ but is in error in their beliefs on Sabbath, state of the dead etc, then they are worthy to fellowship with. If, on the other hand, a neighbour or even a fellow Adventist, has a combative, scoffing nature and is not interested in the truth, then they would be, to me, dangerous to fellowship with.

you have a point here, I must admit...

... still that does not answer the point I raised in regard to the prohibitions mentioned in the beginning of the thread... besides it is these "small" prohibition that create not only division in the SDA church within but also draw a borderline between other denominations and christian, again can two walk together unless they agree...

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

you have a point here, I must admit...

... still that does not answer the point I raised in regard to the prohibitions mentioned in the beginning of the thread... besides it is these "small" prohibition that create not only division in the SDA church within but also draw a borderline between other denominations and christian, again can two walk together unless they agree...

You have to be able to make the distinction between the apostate, conference denomination and the church. Just because the message has been twisted and contorted beyond recognition does not mean that the true message is not valid.

Our duty is to dig for the treasure and to discover what God has for us as His people. Sister White was the biggest check on errant understanding within the church while she was alive but unfortunately, there have been few voices within the church to quell the slow march to apostasy since her death.

 

[OntheDL]

I didn't say you were weak, I asked did you believe that you were that weak that you could not stand to read something that did not agree with you current beliefs and be swayed. That was actually a question, rhetorical at that.

Now I agree, here I coiuld be more clear. All that call themselves SDA and/or using SDA somewhere in their name....on the surface(especially on the internet), sometimes end up being fringe groups. This is what I believe the members of my church have run across and gotten hold to some bad "doctrine".

Oh I understand, believe me. I have heard it for 53 years, I know it for sure. I agree that we were supposed to be something different from a denom, but here were are and it is what it is.....a denomination whether we like it or not. I believe in the message, but I don't believe in how the message and the God of the message are presented or even represented.

From what you understand? Who have you been talking to? Just ask me if you want to know anything,,, I am glad to answers question for and about myself...........

I will say this, though, I do agree with you on this to a point, that you have to be careful about where you get your doctrine. However, at some point when you are convicted, and mature and know what you believe, through a love relationship with Christ, you have nothing to fear from the knowledge of what someone else believes or even a decent mutually respectful conversation. We are not always going to meet or be called to witness to people who have no beliefs. Sometimes they will come with beliefs of their own. Disrespect for their current beliefs willl not incline them to want to hear what you have to say. You[general} claim to be representative of a loving God and you start out with no love at all...how is that going to work? I'm jes' sayin........... BTW, I am on the Lord's side, and fortunately for me, your opinion of which side I am on, doesn't count.....and visa versa.......but then I would not think to question or judge your relationship with God.

To follow up on this post...

The church has not officially preached the Adventist message since the compromise made to Dr. Walter Martin about 5 decades ago. But you have been hearing the SDA doctrine for 53 years, since you were born? And hearing the truth does no good unless the person believes and practices it (seeing you don't believe in our beliefs). Being in the membership book does not make the person Adventist.

What's the belief/message that sets SDAs apart from the main stream Christians?

 

[Princessdi]

I really did not know that you all were trippin' that hard on the quote. mercy! what are you all going to do when the real questions come from those who are threatening your life, if youo can't stand the thought of someone asking questions? Grow up, Guys.. You all are really cool, not a one that I don't like. However, our own Bible prophecy demands that you grow beyond thing place were you are stuck. sigh.......

To follow up on this post...

The church has not officially preached the Adventist message since the compromise made to Dr. Walter Martin about 5 decades ago. But you have been hearing the SDA doctrine for 53 years, since you were born? And hearing the truth does no good unless the person believes and practices it (seeing you don't believe in our beliefs). Being in the membership book does not make the person Adventist.

What's the belief/message that sets SDAs apart from the main stream Christians?