Really? Trinity?

kristina411 · Feb 27, 2015

I'll be honest, I didn't even know about the Trinity concept until three years ago. And still I just don't know. I haven't found enough evidence in my bible study to form a conclusion yet.

What I do know is that Jesus says He is in the Father and the Father in Him. I believe he also says if we believe, we are in Him and Him in us.

So, so far, my idea is that Jesus is God and was man. However, as Son of God, just as son of man, His father is a part of Him but not necessarily Him a part of the Father. Not necessarily not a part of the Father either.
But I'm undecided, I would love any info for either side, biblical references only please, or opinions of course but any scriptures... That's what I put my trust in scripture in, The Word.

2ducklow · Feb 27, 2015

katerinah1947 said:
Dear,
I have just received counsel on your question to me. You are like Saint Augustine when he was on earth. He could not understand God. I have just been told that if you do not understand the above, as it was written to you, then your comprehension is limited, and I am not to try and make you understand.
I would like to say more, and I will if you ask. I will even try to help you understand.

Let me add something. I had to know this. I had to. I know it. I had to know this, for something God wanted me to do one day. He wanted to ask me a question. I had to totally understand that question. In order to do that, I had to totally know God the way He is. I did understand that question. I did understand it totally. I did understand that question precisely, as it was meant, and Who exactly was asking that question. So, I needed to know. That is why I told you this much. I had hoped this was enough. Next I will speak plainly.
1. God is God.
2. You are trintarian and you don't know it. You are Parent, Adult, Child all in one body.
3. Jesus was begotten, using only what was in God to do that. His Parent, His Adult, His child within Himself.
4. Jesus is like His Father, being both Trinitarian within His own self now, and also in being God. (***)
5. The Holy Spirit is Trinitarian, and other than being a spirit only, like God The Father, He is like Jesus, and
He is like The Father in all ways, except choice.
6. The identicalness of God, is only differentiated by Choices. Each makes Choices and that determines Who
they are, in person. Their choices are their personhood. (a made up word for this talk)
7. If you understood all of that, then I am pleased, and the counsel was in worry and not in content. I took it
as content, because of the source of that counsel, who is not God, but works for God.
LOVE and love,
...Katerina., He, They ..... .

So, have you told this stuff to any real live person? I mean, anyone besides someone on line? Cause if you have I would imagine you got the same sort of reaction I got when I told people that God made me an angel. Which he did. God melded a transparent blue angelic spirit to me while watching home alone I. It's the scene where they are in the church and the choir is singing "hear the angels sing....... when Christ arose". That was 2 years ago Christmas, I've been an angel since dec. 13. Prior to that my angel friends had made me an honorary member of the angel corps. I think God saw that I liked associating with angels so much that he made me one too. Now I'm a full fledged member cause I'm an angel too. Thank you Jesus. My head angel is about 8 foot tall and she always makes sure I get ready to go to church on time, In effect she takes me to church . I feel so privilidged. She said in a dream that her I can call her Sonja. Sonja is an old norse word that means wisdom. surprisingly nobody seemed worried about me having a head angel named Sonja, they just came unglued when I said God made me an angel. Oh well. Oh man, see my angel wing bobble head icon? A friend gave it to me for my birthday shortly after I became an angel. It's the only time she ever gave me a birthday gift. Sometimes I"m really slow, I should have noticed that "coincident" earlier, but like I say ,sometimes i'm really slow catchin on.

People tried to convince me that I'm not really an angel. So I don't tell them anymore. hey I'm not stupid. I know nobody's gonna believe that. Likewise I can't imagine anyone believing what you've just said. So my point is, that one needs to air out for public scrutiny new ideas or experiences that we have. We need to bounce them of live human beings to see if they will float or not. I did, and mine floated. It's just one safety test that we should use with new ideas and experiences. Things can sound really good when they are just in our head, but sometimes when we air them out with other humans we find they aren't as sound as we thought, or they are even more sound than we thought.

Whow, man, I just had a mind blowing thought. What if the reason that Jesus, a man, can know so many Christians is because Jesus, a man is 'multipresent'? God is omnipresent, but Jesus a man in a new and improved human body is multipresent. Jesus in his new body can walk thought walls right? Right. so Jesus new body , his eternal body is new and improved. multipresent capablility would be an improvement. man, this sounds soooooooooo right. Ah well, like they say, you learn something new everyday.

katerinah1947 · Feb 27, 2015

2ducklow said:
So, have you told this stuff to any real live person? I mean, anyone besides someone on line? Cause if you have I would imagine you got the same sort of reaction I got when I told people that God made me an angel. Which he did. God melded a transparent blue angelic spirit to me while watching home alone I. It's the scene where they are in the church and the choir is singing "hear the angels sing....... when Christ arose". That was 2 years ago Christmas, I've been an angel since dec. 13. Prior to that my angel friends had made me an honorary member of the angel corps. I think God saw that I liked associating with angels so much that he made me one too. Now I'm a full fledged member cause I'm an angel too. Thank you Jesus. My head angel is about 8 foot tall and she always makes sure I get ready to go to church on time, In effect she takes me to church . I feel so privilidged. She said in a dream that her I can call her Sonja. Sonja is an old norse word that means wisdom. surprisingly nobody seemed worried about me having a head angel named Sonja, they just came unglued when I said God made me an angel. Oh well. Oh man, see my angel wing bobble head icon? A friend gave it to me for my birthday shortly after I became an angel. It's the only time she ever gave me a birthday gift. Sometimes I"m really slow, I should have noticed that "coincident" earlier, but like I say ,sometimes i'm really slow catchin on.

People tried to convince me that I'm not really an angel. So I don't tell them anymore. hey I'm not stupid. I know nobody's gonna believe that. Likewise I can't imagine anyone believing what you've just said. So my point is, that one needs to air out for public scrutiny new ideas or experiences that we have. We need to bounce them of live human beings to see if they will float or not. I did, and mine floated. It's just one safety test that we should use with new ideas and experiences. Things can sound really good when they are just in our head, but sometimes when we air them out with other humans we find they aren't as sound as we thought, or they are even more sound than we thought.

Whow, man, I just had a mind blowing thought. What if the reason that Jesus, a man, can know so many Christians is because Jesus, a man is 'multipresent'? God is omnipresent, but Jesus a man in a new and improved human body is multipresent. Jesus in his new body can walk thought walls right? Right. so Jesus new body , his eternal body is new and improved. multipresent capablility would be an improvement. man, this sounds soooooooooo right. Ah well, like they say, you learn something new everyday.

Hi,
Yes, lots of people know of what I say. You are just the most recent. My first set of God encounters, stated in sevnth grade, and I am 67 now.
I have been around the mystical types, never ever figuring I was one for most of my life.
My most recent experience like one of yours, is working with a boy, who Jesus Christ introduced his guardian angel to him, and gave the boy eventually the guardian angels name. They are allowed to converse. I am not. They are.
I spent much time with him as he had exactly your ideas about being an angel, rather than what is said in the Bible, about us and angels. So what he finally figured out is he is like the angel in every way personality wise, but is not actually one. His angel gave him no resistance on that from me. None.
The Bible is wonderful to read. Nothing I say or do, can be contrary to that, and none of it is. Yet, many people read it Lectio Divina, and do not ever read it well enough to know how to read just the simple things, until they are totally done with that. Also they don't know to have at least five bibles, to compare. And the hardest part is they don't know they have to read every section on what God talks about for a single idea like death, or foolishness. That is a huge amount of work.
Your Bible tells you actually that although you and I will be like the angels, we in fact will not be angels in life, after this earth. It says that. You say, otherwise, but you say that in an amazing way, and if in fact God made you know that in your case, you will be an angel later, then it is so. You will be an angel.
If you like we can take this offline here, in PM form. I don't care. I actually thought you would be fed up with me by now, but I hoped you would not be. I can talk about what I know, I can tell you how I know it, and there are almost no off-limit discussions with me.
So, in closing, even the priest at Mount Angel Abbey agrees they have enough primary proof, that some of what I say, is real and believed by some of them. They also have enough to say, that what I say about God, being in fact trinitarian, in two ways, is real, and much more I say about God is most probably true from me also, as I had to have that much information, for a single question, God The Father asked me, with Gabriel actually telling me what God The Father had in mind. Yes, Jesus handed me off and up, beforehand. Yes, The Holy Spirit had to be involved also. Yes, Mary was involved for she too handed me off and up, before I was asked, before I knew what was going on. I knew nothing of any of this, until the quetion was done.
It was 9 months later, that I found out that my life with God was...... It is not until 9 months later, that I started to know, how much I knew, but I also started to realize why.
But, that is me. Now what about you. What does God wish to do with you?
...Katerina.,

katerinah1947 · Feb 27, 2015

Hi,
So, my point was, even my personal experiences, say the Trinity is the way it is. I am pleased that almost every Christian in the world thinks this is so also.
However, should anyone offer proof, that I and all those like me are wrong that is fine, and I demand that I listen to them.
...Katerina.

2ducklow · Feb 27, 2015

katerinah1947 said:
Hi,
Yes, lots of people know of what I say. You are just the most recent. My first set of God encounters, stated in sevnth grade, and I am 67 now.
I have been around the mystical types, never ever figuring I was one for most of my life.
My most recent experience like one of yours, is working with a boy, who Jesus Christ introduced his guardian angel to him, and gave the boy eventually the guardian angels name. They are allowed to converse. I am not. They are.
I spent much time with him as he had exactly your ideas about being an angel, rather than what is said in the Bible, about us and angels. So what he finally figured out is he is like the angel in every way personality wise, but is not actually one. His angel gave him no resistance on that from me. None.
The Bible is wonderful to read. Nothing I say or do, can be contrary to that, and none of it is. Yet, many people read it Lectio Divina, and do not ever read it well enough to know how to read just the simple things, until they are totally done with that. Also they don't know to have at least five bibles, to compare. And the hardest part is they don't know they have to read every section on what God talks about for a single idea like death, or foolishness. That is a huge amount of work.
Your Bible tells you actually that although you and I will be like the angels, we in fact will not be angels in life, after this earth. It says that. You say, otherwise, but you say that in an amazing way, and if in fact God made you know that in your case, you will be an angel later, then it is so. You will be an angel.
If you like we can take this offline here, in PM form. I don't care. I actually thought you would be fed up with me by now, but I hoped you would not be. I can talk about what I know, I can tell you how I know it, and there are almost no off-limit discussions with me.
So, in closing, even the priest at Mount Angel Abbey agrees they have enough primary proof, that some of what I say, is real and believed by some of them. They also have enough to say, that what I say about God, being in fact trinitarian, in two ways, is real, and much more I say about God is most probably true from me also, as I had to have that much information, for a single question, God The Father asked me, with Gabriel actually telling me what God The Father had in mind. Yes, Jesus handed me off and up, beforehand. Yes, The Holy Spirit had to be involved also. Yes, Mary was involved for she too handed me off and up, before I was asked, before I knew what was going on. I knew nothing of any of this, until the quetion was done.
It was 9 months later, that I found out that my life with God was...... It is not until 9 months later, that I started to know, how much I knew, but I also started to realize why.
But, that is me. Now what about you. What does God wish to do with you?
...Katerina.,

ok so you're a mystic. I seem to recall that catholics are more into mysticism than other Christians. mysticism is considered demonism by Pentecostals. I think Baptists and the like also consider it demonic. You said you didn't want to tell me how you got your information so I'm suspecting it was through the use of ouiji boards and or tarot cards. Or was it a séance? I'm right ain't I? It just dawned on me. Like I said previously , sometimes it takes a while for me to catch on. finding out that the trinity is true by means of a séance only proves trinity is not of God.

katerinah1947 · Feb 27, 2015

2ducklow said:
ok so you're a mystic. I seem to recall that catholics are more into mysticism than other Christians. mysticism is considered demonism by Pentecostals. I think Baptists and the like also consider it demonic. You said you didn't want to tell me how you got your information so I'm suspecting it was through the use of ouiji boards and or tarot cards. Or was it a séance? I'm right ain't I? It just dawned on me. Like I said previously , sometimes it takes a while for me to catch on. finding out that the trinity is true by means of a séance only proves trinity is not of God.

You are not even remotely close.

katerinah1947 · Feb 27, 2015

kristina411 said:
I'll be honest, I didn't even know about the Trinity concept until three years ago. And still I just don't know. I haven't found enough evidence in my bible study to form a conclusion yet.

What I do know is that Jesus says He is in the Father and the Father in Him. I believe he also says if we believe, we are in Him and Him in us.

So, so far, my idea is that Jesus is God and was man. However, as Son of God, just as son of man, His father is a part of Him but not necessarily Him a part of the Father. Not necessarily not a part of the Father either.
But I'm undecided, I would love any info for either side, biblical references only please, or opinions of course but any scriptures... That's what I put my trust in scripture in, The Word.

Yes,
From what I have heard it takes a long time to understand. I think I might have asked everyone about that for 50 years, and the best answers I have ever heard is this: "It's a mystery"
I like that. No, it is not a mystery to me, but that is not the point. The point is everyone who knows Christianity, seems to come up with the idea, that indeed God seems to be described as a Trinity. It is in statements like baptising in the name of The Father and The Son and The Holy Spirit. Why three?
The Father is greater than I is another statement. Oh? Jesus is not all there is? Another clue, it is not simple. "If I leave my Father will send...." Now, a third person is talked about. It is getting even harder.
So, as you continue your studies, you should keep coming across these ideas repetively.
Another is When David was speaking under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, he said: The Lord said to my Lord. Sit here at my right hand..... Who is who here? How are there two lords. Is one the Holy Spirit. Scholars have been working on this for years, and it seems they say, somehow God is Trinitarian.
Pictorily the best description I have seen of this, is three individuals who can collectively or individually be God, in actions, and in being, but also they can be just themselves also, individuals.
Do you or anyone really need this now? You might, and if you do, you will learn it, but it is God who will teach it to you someway. He could ask me to tell any of you of my experiences with Them, but unless you ask, I am not your teacher. I am not. Even then if you ask, I am allowed to share experiences really, and not teach. It is because I am horrible at it. ~Yes God caused me to hear that, and later learn that. He also caused me to know, I can share my experiences.~

...Katie.

Imagican · Feb 28, 2015

Katerinah,

Acts 17:29King James Version (KJV)

29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.

You say you are open to what scripture has to offer in TRUTH. Read this scripture and then compare it to what the RCC created in "TRINITY".

'we ought NOT to THINK that the Godhead is like unto ANYTHING 'material', graven by ART and MAN'S DEVICE'.

Yet how often have we SEEN the GRAVEN IMAGES produced by, not ONLY the RCC, but almost every denomination that follows 'trinity'????? Think about THAT.

And LOOK at the manner in which 'trinity' is HELD to such HIGH value by those that INSIST that it is an ALL IMPORTANT doctrine, but NEVER introduced by God, His Son or the apostles. If you ask me, it IS treated like it is GOLD or SILVER or as concreted into most denominations as STONE. Yet all it takes is a cursory study to plainly SEE that it is UTTERLY 'man made'. NEVER introduced to the Hebrews/Jews. Never revealed by the Son of God Himself. Never taught by the apostles.

Just Google in the word 'trinity' and then hit 'images' and SEE if there aren't literally HUNDREDS of 'graven images' of this 'trinity'. And just LOOK at the intricate detail that some of the images are actually 'graven'. MORE intricate and more detailed than the God designed and detailed 'ark' or even 'Solomon's temple'.

Yet I have pointed out scripture that TELLS us that we are NOT to even THINK about Godhead as such. If we are not to even THINK about it in such a manner, it couldn't be MORE obvious we should NEVER actually MAKE 'graven images' that we ACCEPT as it's LIKENESS. And if we DO, since we are told NOT TO DO such things, it is also perfectly obvious that it CANNOT be TRUE.

Yet EVERY 'trinitarian', when asked, is FORCED to use 'analogies', (THOUGHTS or IDEAS like GRAVEN IMAGES), in order to DESCRIBE or define it.

Kind of like the RCC's FONDNESS of all SORTS of 'graven images' that God COMMANDED man NOT to take part in. Yet they fill their 'temples' with 'graven images' and even bow and pray to them. Is it REALLY any SURPRISE that 'they' were the ONES to create this 'trinity' and then USE 'graven images' to represent it?

Once again, the Bible warns us that before Christ's return, there would be a 'falling away' FIRST. And that 'falling away' will NOT be a 'falling away' from RELIGION. For religions are more popular today than ever before in the history of mankind. But the 'falling away' is in reference to a 'falling away' from the TRUTH.

I offer that 'trinity' has been THE main catalyst used to bring about the 'falling away'. It took God's Son and turned Him into God Himself. Making it possible to worship the Son AS the Father. And ANY true Jew can explain to you that this was one of the FIRST commandments given by God and commanded men: NOT TO DO. That God is ONE and there are NO OTHER GODS beside Him. One and UNCOMPOUNDED is the manner in which God revealed Himself. And commanded men NOT to make ANY 'graven image' nor to WORSHIP any 'graven image'.

But that is EXACTLY what men have CHOSEN to DO: created a 'graven image' in 'trinity' and then bow down and worship it AS GOD.

And Satan dances and sings.

Revelation 3:

13 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.
14 And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;
15 I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.
16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.
17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
18 I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.
19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.
20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.
21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.
22 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.

Blessings,

MEC

Imagican · Feb 28, 2015

Oh, and note that MOST 'graven images' of the 'trinity' are in the FORM of a 'pyramid'. A 'shape' considered sacred by the Egyptians. Significant? I would say that the Egyptians were one of the PRIMARY enemies of Israel for many THOUSANDS of years. If enemies of 'Israel', then enemies of God Himself.

Blessings,

MEC

kristina411 · Feb 28, 2015

katerinah1947 said:
Yes,
From what I have heard it takes a long time to understand. I think I might have asked everyone about that for 50 years, and the best answers I have ever heard is this: "It's a mystery"
I like that. No, it is not a mystery to me, but that is not the point. The point is everyone who knows Christianity, seems to come up with the idea, that indeed God seems to be described as a Trinity. It is in statements like baptising in the name of The Father and The Son and The Holy Spirit. Why three?
The Father is greater than I is another statement. Oh? Jesus is not all there is? Another clue, it is not simple. "If I leave my Father will send...." Now, a third person is talked about. It is getting even harder.
So, as you continue your studies, you should keep coming across these ideas repetively.
Another is When David was speaking under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, he said: The Lord said to my Lord. Sit here at my right hand..... Who is who here? How are there two lords. Is one the Holy Spirit. Scholars have been working on this for years, and it seems they say, somehow God is Trinitarian.
Pictorily the best description I have seen of this, is three individuals who can collectively or individually be God, in actions, and in being, but also they can be just themselves also, individuals.
Do you or anyone really need this now? You might, and if you do, you will learn it, but it is God who will teach it to you someway. He could ask me to tell any of you of my experiences with Them, but unless you ask, I am not your teacher. I am not. Even then if you ask, I am allowed to share experiences really, and not teach. It is because I am horrible at it. ~Yes God caused me to hear that, and later learn that. He also caused me to know, I can share my experiences.~

...Katie.

I believe Jesus is the son of God, and I believe while being human Jesus was/is also fully God. I do grasp that and I can even see from my own reading ways that support the Trinity. I just also see ways that could be unsupportive so far. So I put the idea into the "I dont know" field.

I dont think its that crucial to know right now so long as we can all respect the power of all three and acknowledge their position. I am very familiar already with the concept of dissociatuve identity disorder. Not to say this is God but only to say I do grasp the idea of three being seperate but one. I just have found evidence both for and against in the Bible so I am intending to spend time focused in on just this and hopefully be able to make a decision. But right now I'm beginning a four year in depth bible study so it may be some time before I have a chance to fully look into it. That's why I like having help/others pointing out scriptures for either side. So I can look into it sooner

There are a lot of ideas that modern Christians hold that I am unsure of. Like the concept of sin and its current impact on our relationship with God. I dont want to derail I was just giving an example of another way I am questioning modern beliefs after reading.

Ripheus27 · Feb 28, 2015

Imagican said:
Oh, and note that MOST 'graven images' of the 'trinity' are in the FORM of a 'pyramid'.

A pyramid is a four- or five-faced three-dimensional figure (minimally a tetrahedron, but in the Egyptian case a pentahedron, with one of the sides being a square). The Shield of the Trinity, the most prominent diagram of the Trinity doctrine, is a three-angled two-dimensional figure (a trigon). A pentahedron and a trigon are significantly different in their geometries (e.g. the former has volume greater than 0).

As far as the issue of icons goes:

2129 The divine injunction included the prohibition of every representation of God by the hand of man. Deuteronomy explains: "Since you saw no form on the day that the Lord spoke to you at Horeb out of the midst of the fire, beware lest you act corruptly by making a graven image for yourselves, in the form of any figure...."66 It is the absolutely transcendent God who revealed himself to Israel. "He is the all," but at the same time "he is greater than all his works."67 He is "the author of beauty."68

2130 Nevertheless, already in the Old Testament, God ordained or permitted the making of images that pointed symbolically toward salvation by the incarnate Word: so it was with the bronze serpent, the ark of the covenant, and the cherubim.69

2131 Basing itself on the mystery of the incarnate Word, the seventh ecumenical council at Nicaea (787) justified against the iconoclasts the veneration of icons - of Christ, but also of the Mother of God, the angels, and all the saints. By becoming incarnate, the Son of God introduced a new "economy" of images.

2132 The Christian veneration of images is not contrary to the first commandment which proscribes idols. Indeed, "the honor rendered to an image passes to its prototype," and "whoever venerates an image venerates the person portrayed in it."70 The honor paid to sacred images is a "respectful veneration," not the adoration due to God alone:

Religious worship is not directed to images in themselves, considered as mere things, but under their distinctive aspect as images leading us on to God incarnate. the movement toward the image does not terminate in it as image, but tends toward that whose image it is.71

That's the Catechism of the Catholic Church I'm quoting, btw.

2ducklow · Feb 28, 2015

katerinah1947 said:
You are not even remotely close.

you won't tell me how god spoke to you in that way, you won't say it was a vision or a dream or what. Then you want me to just accept that God told you trinity is a ok. So I conclude you have some demonic mystical source telling you that trinity is A OK. I have to make sense of what you say, you don't give me all the facts I need. So based on what I've heard from you , that is my conclusion. The way I see it, if what you are experiencing is not a vision and not a dream from God, then it has to be some demonic mystical source.

If you said it was a vision, my response would be that I don't think it was a vision from God.

If you said it was a dream from God, my response would be the same, I don't think it was a dream from God.

you're in effect asking me to just accept blindly that god told you that trinity is AOK, so it is A OK cause you have some special connection with God that surpasses anything anyone else is experiencing. So I being a lower vessel should accept what you a higher vessel says. but you gotta keep your source a secret. . That is not something God would do. That has demonic written all over it.

kristina411 · Feb 28, 2015

I posted in here earlier saying I am undecided about it. Well today's study lesson was Mark chapter 12 which ended up seemingly providing some insight into this topic. Wrote a blog about it on here by basically the chapter seems to make it important to know that God is One and there is only One God and notes the distinction between the two. What it says about the Trinity I haven't quite decided but it definitely gave me something to think about.

katerinah1947 · Feb 28, 2015

Imagican said:
Oh, and note that MOST 'graven images' of the 'trinity' are in the FORM of a 'pyramid'. A 'shape' considered sacred by the Egyptians. Significant? I would say that the Egyptians were one of the PRIMARY enemies of Israel for many THOUSANDS of years. If enemies of 'Israel', then enemies of God Himself.

Blessings,

MEC

Hi,
Please misunderstand me not. You sound amazing, in your willingness to accept whatever God says is correct. I am impressed.
The subject here seems to be the trinity. You oppose that. I have seen your statements, and see why you seem to think all that you think. And, if it weren't for two facts, I would comment heavily. One is I have not been in the Word, but in the Spirit for years. (Yes once that is all I was. In the Word.). The second is I didn't know the concept of the Trinity was controversial.
From what I have read so far, you are a good carpenter, as you are honest. That is, if your pesonal information is accurate enough, that you posted. I was interested enough in your statements, and the multitude of them, that I wanted to know as much as I could about you before talking to you, via this mechanism.
I love carpenters, and have had the pleasure of working with and for them, on small projects. For years and years they taught me the imporatance of material, and how carpentry is about materials rather than fit, like machinery which requires good material, but where fit is more important even than materials. It took quite a while for me to change thinking styles.
For you, thinking is the same almost as my word feeling, because when I use that word feeling, it is actually feeling with content. The feeling with content, and your thoughts on a subject are the same, either almost, or exactly. I don't remember that anymore.
When I think of the Trinity, it is a concept and a reality. It may be like building homes. I could not do that for all the reading in the world. I spent years trying to learn how to build from books. It never happened. Then one day, I was allowed to help in that trade, to build homes. It became easy mentally, and totally obvious.
Flying is like that to me also. I tried for years and years to read books on how to fly, to lower my costs, as it is 15 times more expensive than it needs to be. Later, I learned it is a skill. I learned that by doing flying. Now, if you just want to fly roughly anything, I can easily teach you that skill, but I need practically nothing book wise, to help you do that. I just need you, like in balancing a bike which you never forget how to do, to learn how to do five or six items like that.
Not that you need this next part, but others do. Math is a skill also, and the number of problems you work determines how good you are at that. Start with one book you can handle at home, work all the problems, then go on to the next and the next. You are good mathematician after that. (Yes, proven in a Ph.D. Thesis for any academia out there.)
With all of that, I still have no ideas yet on what the prime issue is with using words and concepts to describe events and realities, that no one understands usually. [I do understand that, however that is not the point here.]
It seems to me everything written about the Trinity is to merely try and figure out, how ALL THE STATEMENTS ABOUT GOD, can be true SIMULTANEOUSLY. Yes, I am only talking at this point about the statements made in The Bible, but including The Old and The New Testament.
LOVE and love,
...Katerina.

katerinah1947 · Feb 28, 2015

2ducklow said:
you won't tell me how god spoke to you in that way, you won't say it was a vision or a dream or what. Then you want me to just accept that God told you trinity is a ok. So I conclude you have some demonic mystical source telling you that trinity is A OK. I have to make sense of what you say, you don't give me all the facts I need. So based on what I've heard from you , that is my conclusion. The way I see it, if what you are experiencing is not a vision and not a dream from God, then it has to be some demonic mystical source.

If you said it was a vision, my response would be that I don't think it was a vision from God.

If you said it was a dream from God, my response would be the same, I don't think it was a dream from God.

you're in effect asking me to just accept blindly that god told you that trinity is AOK, so it is A OK cause you have some special connection with God that surpasses anything anyone else is experiencing. So I being a lower vessel should accept what you a higher vessel says. but you gotta keep your source a secret. . That is not something God would do. That has demonic written all over it.

Hi,
Dear, when people accuse others of horrors, they are usually if not always telling others of who they are inside.
To be clear on this, when you accused me of using the occult in a rather accusing and horrid style of denigration, you merely are telling me who you are and what you do, but do not want to admit.
Is that what you want me to know about you, that you use ouija boards and do seances or use demonic mystical sources, because if you continue, that is what you are telling me about yourself.
So, at this point, I say you have told me, you get all your information, not from angels of God, but in fact evil spirits. You are in violation of what God said early on, to never ever do that.

Next, I do not ask you to accept anything, but what I have stated in my reality. I also asked you to accept that people in the business of God, have heard everything that I have said, almost, and they agree, that they cannot say it is not totally real.

Do you think everyone should believe everything you say? Those are your words again reversed, for you accused me of that in an insulting way. Reversals for accusers using insults or in anger, points out to the accused, what the accuser is.

The concepts I raised, that I have seen The Essence of God, is not a leanring tool for you. It is a questioning tool. I have told you of what I have seen. I have told you of how God and The Trinity historically has been understood by almost no one on earth. Do you want to be the exception. Do you want to know God, so well that you know whether trinity is right or wrong in describing Him? Do, you?
Do you?

...Katerina.,

2ducklow · Feb 28, 2015

katerinah1947 said:
Hi,
Dear, when people accuse others of horrors, they are usually if not always telling others of who they are inside.

So no one can conclude that another person is resorting to occult practices because if he does, then he does it to.

Katerinah1947 said:
To be clear on this, when you accused me of using the occult in a rather accusing and horrid style of denigration, you merely are telling me who you are and what you do, but do not want to admit.

I only see 2 options, either your source is demonic, or you just have a very vivid imagination.
In the absence of any explanation of how God said this to you, that is what I must conclude.

Katerinah1947 said:
Is that what you want me to know about you, that you use ouija boards and do seances or use demonic mystical sources, because if you continue, that is what you are telling me about yourself.
So, at this point, I say you have told me, you get all your information, not from angels of God, but in fact evil spirits. You are in violation of what God said early on, to never ever do that.

I never said I get all my information from my angel friends. In fact my angel friends highlight truths I already know. they bring to my remembrance things I've learned in the past. Stuff like that.

Katerinah1947 said:
Next, I do not ask you to accept anything, but what I have stated in my reality.

the way you word it, there is no way to discount it cause God told you it, and we just gotta trust you that the method he used is valid. That's asking me to trust in you.

Katerinah1947 said:
I also asked you to accept that people in the business of God, have heard everything that I have said, almost, and they agree, that they cannot say it is not totally real.

the people in the business of god at every church I've gone to would not accept what you have said.

Katerinah1947 said:
Do you think everyone should believe everything you say? Those are your words again reversed, for you accused me of that in an insulting way. Reversals for accusers using insults or in anger, points out to the accused, what the accuser is.

I don't consider it an insult for me to say that I think you are probably resorting to some occutlic practice to get your information, or that you have a very vivid imagination. By refusing to tell me how God spoke this stuff to you, you have in effect left it up to me to decide how you got your voice from God. The only options I see is it was a vision, a dream from God, something occultic, or just your vivid imagination. you've ruled out visions and dreams so occult and imagination is all i'm left with.

Katerina19470 said:
The concepts I raised, that I have seen The Essence of God, is not a leanring tool for you. It is a questioning tool. I have told you of what I have seen. I have told you of how God and The Trinity historically has been understood by almost no one on earth. Do you want to be the exception. Do you want to know God, so well that you know whether trinity is right or wrong in describing Him? Do, you?
Do you?

...Katerina.,

I know God, the people in my church know God, the people in the Trinitarian churches I attended in the past know God. An d I know trinity is wrong in describing God, not because of a vision, a dream, or angels, or some occultic practice, or because of my vivid imagination, but because the bible says that God the Father Is the one and only true or real God. john 17.3 and 1 cor. 8.6. My proof is scripture, the proof you offer is some mysterious way God supposedly talked to you that you refuse to reveal to me. I'll take scripture not your experiences. and lastly, if some spirit told you trinity is a ok, then I'm duty bound to try that spirit, and the bible says every spirit that confesses not that Jesus is come in the flesh is not of God, and you spirit confessing that Jesus is part of a trinity is confessing that Jesus is not come in the Flesh and it is therefore not of
god.

katerinah1947 · Feb 28, 2015

kristina411 said:
I posted in here earlier saying I am undecided about it. Well today's study lesson was Mark chapter 12 which ended up seemingly providing some insight into this topic. Wrote a blog about it on here by basically the chapter seems to make it important to know that God is One and there is only One God and notes the distinction between the two. What it says about the Trinity I haven't quite decided but it definitely gave me something to think about.

Love as God describes that Biblically, is a combination of ideas. When you read all there is about how God defines that concept, then slowly you can see that what is said about that word, being primarily an indescribable emotion, is actually Doing The Will of The One you love, in Biblical terms, and therefore it is the way God describes love, in action.
If you recall from everything you have heard in church, or read, or have heard from friends in church, no where, is Doing The Will, any definition of love, that you know of. Yet, Biblically that is the definition of Love, as God uses it.
The two greatest commandments become this, if that definition is right:
1. Do The Will of God, With All Your Heart, And With All Your Might.
2. Do The Will of Your Neighbor As You Do The Will OF Yourself.

For in these rests all the law of the prophets.

Have you ever seen that before? I say no. Is it wrong?
The point here, for me for you to think about is this. From my reference point, I know the Bible is Real, and that is unusual. I also know that God is Real, and that is unusual. Some of the tools I used for that, was a multiplicity of Bibles (up to eight), everything everyone said, and a sincere need and desire to know if the Bible was real of fake.
When I was done, actually objectively looking at That Book, it took something ordinary to settle the issue. It took tests. Yet, I could not do those tests, until I was at the point where, I could prove nothing that was in the Bible is or was wrong. I also went outside of my sphere of influence, and sought help outside to see if anyone else had proved that book wrong, after I found out, that I could not do that. It helped me to find that no one else had either.
Only after all the above was done for me, and I was stuck, that the idea of tests, (called controlled experiments in my field), might give me a clear answer, whether or not that book was real. THEY DID, BUT, controlled experiments do not always result in clear answers. THESE DID, but I was not expecting that, as controlled experiments are totally objective. I could have gotten no answer. I could have been just as confused as I was before about the Bible.
Now, why that for me. It is how God built me. What is the method you will use, it is the method God chooses for you, and it is how He built you, But, it is also in His TIMEFRAME, when you will know this or that about Him.
I am stuck just like the rest of you, in waiting on God, for this and for that. He answers but in His Way and in His Timing, and I know why I think.
So, why have I written all this to you. It is to let you know a single passage about anything in The Bible can be misused, some of the time. To get around that problem, you must know all the passages on a subject. Lacking a total understanding of anything, is an act of humility. It is to let it go. It is not to demand from God. It is not to make the mistake of deciding what is true or false or even if God is Real or Not, because of how quick He answers. It is not. That is how a dog's merit is measured. God is not our pet, like as dog. He is not measured by performing for us. He is measured, by Who He Is. ~I am who I shall prove to be~ and if He proves to be The Trinity fine, and if you find He is not by proof, then He is not.
...Katerina.,

katerinah1947 · Feb 28, 2015

2ducklow said:
So no one can conclude that another person is resorting to occult practices because if he does, then he does it to.
I only see 2 options, either your source is demonic, or you just have a very vivid imagination.
In the absence of any explanation of how God said this to you, that is what I must conclude.

I never said I get all my information from my angel friends. In fact my angel friends highlight truths I already know. they bring to my remembrance things I've learned in the past. Stuff like that.

the way you word it, there is no way to discount it cause God told you it, and we just gotta trust you that the method he used is valid. That's asking me to trust in you.
the people in the business of god at every church I've gone to would not accept what you have said.
I don't consider it an insult for me to say that I think you are probably resorting to some occutlic practice to get your information, or that you have a very vivid imagination. By refusing to tell me how God spoke this stuff to you, you have in effect left it up to me to decide how you got your voice from God. The only options I see is it was a vision, a dream from God, something occultic, or just your vivid imagination. you've ruled out visions and dreams so occult and imagination is all i'm left with.I know God, the people in my church know God, the people in the Trinitarian churches I attended in the past know God. An d I know trinity is wrong in describing God, not because of a vision, a dream, or angels, or some occultic practice, or because of my vivid imagination, but because the bible says that God the Father Is the one and only true or real God. john 17.3 and 1 cor. 8.6. My proof is scripture, the proof you offer is some mysterious way God supposedly talked to you that you refuse to reveal to me. I'll take scripture not your experiences.

Now I have to apologize to an angel of God, no you cannot have the name of him. While I was first conversing with you, he contacted me, as I happened to have shown him what I wrote to you. He told me essentially to halt and desist, as he said the person who you are talking to does not have the capacity to understand God.
I didn't listen to him. I thought I had to be kind, delicate and understanding. I was and am that. Yet again, I will apologize to that angel. Twice before, he has angered me, because I thought He was wrong. I thought I knew more than he did on two subjects. I didn't. I did apogize. Now, I will do that again. I dont' know why he puts up with me, and he is not my guardian angel even. He is someone elses, an archangel no less.
I forget his words exactly, but it is that you do not have the capacity to understand, and I am to not try to make you understand. I violated that. The results are you still don't understand, I have hurt him and now I feel horrible. Also, you know now, of that conversation. Why didn't you just let it be? Why didn't I just let you be you?
I am sorry to everyone now. I am.
...Katerina.,

kristina411 · Feb 28, 2015

Oh lol I don't plan on making a decision on it until I am moved to do so. I'm a somewhat kind of new Christian and since my awakening, rebirth, whatever it is called, I am finally in a place where I can feel myself being led so I'm in no rush. I am enjoying the process. And I have days where I dont understand in depth like other days but today in my studies it seemed like I was shown quite a bit. Funny thing is, I can see how either side could benefit from it in some WA to show their proof. So I remain undecided. I frequently admit I am unsure, I know this opens the door for people to believe that I am ignorant or only minimally educated on the matter but it is honest. I can not pretend to have knowledge of God unless I know it to be true. Like I know Jesus to be the Son of God, I just don't know if he is The God (Father) as well. In time it will be revealed and if not, I trust i did not need to know. I do enjoy learning more though because I was unaware of the entire concept until three years ago, and I grew up going to church.

katerinah1947 · Feb 28, 2015

kristina411 said:
Oh lol I don't plan on making a decision on it until I am moved to do so. I'm a somewhat kind of new Christian and since my awakening, rebirth, whatever it is called, I am finally in a place where I can feel myself being led so I'm in no rush. I am enjoying the process. And I have days where I dont understand in depth like other days but today in my studies it seemed like I was shown quite a bit. Funny thing is, I can see how either side could benefit from it in some WA to show their proof. So I remain undecided. I frequently admit I am unsure, I know this opens the door for people to believe that I am ignorant or only minimally educated on the matter but it is honest. I can not pretend to have knowledge of God unless I know it to be true. Like I know Jesus to be the Son of God, I just don't know if he is The God (Father) as well. In time it will be revealed and if not, I trust i did not need to know. I do enjoy learning more though because I was unaware of the entire concept until three years ago, and I grew up going to church.

You are extremely correct dear.
...Katie.

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