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interesting question. a few weeks back, there was a question asked that if the threat of hell didnt exist, would you still be a christian. that question caused me to reflect on my situation. and tonite, oddly enough, i read something from john piper saying if the threat of hell is the only reason you want to get saved, then you are not saved.
i now have no doubt that i am not saved as the fear of hell is the only reason i would ever think about getting saved. i have been trying for almost 2 years now to get saved. it has always eluded me and i couldnt understand, till tonite. its not that i dont believe, i simply have no love for Him. but i have no love for anyone.
but i do believe that hell is even worse nthan we can imagine. other demons, fire, darkness, and eventually even satan will be there. its an eternal torment far worse than any of us could imagine.
I realize your post is well meaning but DB Hart is misrepresenting Orthodox Christianity. We may believe in a greater threshold of mercy than western Christianity has often proclaimed but we are not universalists.
i now have no doubt that i am not saved as the fear of hell is the only reason i would ever think about getting saved. i have been trying for almost 2 years now to get saved. it has always eluded me and i couldnt understand, till tonite. its not that i dont believe, i simply have no love for Him. but i have no love for anyone.
Are you saying you do not love Jesus Christ? ( I am not like trying to take you to task but just wondering why?).
Some people will go to "a hell", and not get to go to heaven, even though Jesus is Savior of all people, etc, and even though at some point, all will acknowledge that, etc, but some will be forced to, while others will have already have/had, etc, anyway, regardless of all of that, some will go to a hell, that will be forever for them after that, while some will get to go to heaven...
But hell is just more of here, etc... They will more than likely "sleep" until their time or their turn comes around again to ever exist only in what will be just be only more of only this only here, etc, and that will be for eternity for them, etc...
For these fallen realities will come around again and again and again for all eternity, etc, and they are meant only for only them only, etc... They are only quote/unquote "conscious" (and I use that word very, very loosely in reference to them, etc) (even while they were supposedly ever truly "conscious" here, etc)... anyway... they are only quote/unquote "conscious" (again) ever, only when they are brought back again for only more of this here ever again, etc, and are always quote/unquote "asleep" when and while they are not, either there or here, etc, for there never ever was a place for them ever other than just more of this here, etc...
They will not ever be conscious of any kind of former life, or lives, etc, if you want to call them that, etc, even though they technically had them here, etc...
But it will not be so for those of us going to heaven... We will be "conscious of all", and that will be forever after that, and it will not ever be torment anymore for us, etc, but it still will be for them, etc, and these are both "eternal", etc...
Anyway,
God Bless!
Focus more on God's love for you. His love is perfect, yours and mine is far from it.
i dont have love. I dont think i ever have. Love as an emotion is foreign to me.
But, it is though...wow!! Nothing about that seems Biblical.
Well, if you know anything about all the pagan ideas regarding reincarnation, you would know that is really not what I'm talking about at all, etc...Dude, you make it sound like you believe in reincarnation.
Jesus used many metaphors to explain things to a population that was uneducated for the most part.Jesus didn’t describe it as merely being separated from God, someone some people don’t want to be with in the first place.
I've been a Christian for 3 and a half years, and for the first time, I'm starting to really wrestle with the idea of a loving God sending people to Hell. Throughout my life as a Christian, I've never questioned it. I've always thought, "Of course it's fair that God sends non-Christians to Hell! Their sins aren't paid for, so they have to take the punishment of their sins upon themselves." I never really allowed myself to think about the concept of eternal suffering too hard, because I was afraid that if I started questioning the fairness of this, I would end up leaving the faith. But recently I've started asking questions I've never let myself ask before, like: "Why do the damned suffer eternal punishment for temporal sins?" "If God knew the vast majority of people would end up in unbearable agony for all eternity, why did he ever create humankind?" "Why can't God just destroy the wicked on Judgement Day? Why keep them around for the sole purpose of torturing them?"
Today I was reading an article about the physical suffering of Jesus on the Cross, and couldn't help but think to myself, "the people in Hell will suffer just as much, if not more, than this. And while Jesus' physical torture lasted less than 24 hours, their torture will never end." I immediately tried to push this blasphemous thought out of my head, but it still lingers.
Now that I'm having these questions, it's getting much harder to walk with the Lord like I used to. It's very difficult to feel affection for God when I remember that He's going to sentence the vast majority of humanity to an eternity of unimaginable torture, with no hope of relief. I mean, how does this knowledge not drive us all insane? I can't even walk around Walmart anymore without constantly thinking to myself, "Most of the people in this store will spend eternity in Hell." I don't know what to do. I feel like I'm going crazy.
I know that no matter what my feelings tell me, my God is just and merciful. I understand that any punishment God hands out is perfectly fair. I know that He is not a sadistic monster, no matter how strongly I feel otherwise. So please do not read this post as me accusing God of those things, because I'm not. I just need to figure out how to reconcile my belief that God is good with my belief that God condemns 99% of people to eternal, conscious torment.
Sorry if this post is all jumbled or makes no sense, I'm really not in the right mental state to be forming coherent thoughts right now.
Firstly, We need to understand that we are brought on this world for two things. And that is to love God with ALL our minds,hearts,soul and strengths And to love each other. But we don't do that.I've been a Christian for 3 and a half years, and for the first time, I'm starting to really wrestle with the idea of a loving God sending people to Hell. Throughout my life as a Christian, I've never questioned it. I've always thought, "Of course it's fair that God sends non-Christians to Hell! Their sins aren't paid for, so they have to take the punishment of their sins upon themselves." I never really allowed myself to think about the concept of eternal suffering too hard, because I was afraid that if I started questioning the fairness of this, I would end up leaving the faith. But recently I've started asking questions I've never let myself ask before, like: "Why do the damned suffer eternal punishment for temporal sins?" "If God knew the vast majority of people would end up in unbearable agony for all eternity, why did he ever create humankind?" "Why can't God just destroy the wicked on Judgement Day? Why keep them around for the sole purpose of torturing them?"
Today I was reading an article about the physical suffering of Jesus on the Cross, and couldn't help but think to myself, "the people in Hell will suffer just as much, if not more, than this. And while Jesus' physical torture lasted less than 24 hours, their torture will never end." I immediately tried to push this blasphemous thought out of my head, but it still lingers.
Now that I'm having these questions, it's getting much harder to walk with the Lord like I used to. It's very difficult to feel affection for God when I remember that He's going to sentence the vast majority of humanity to an eternity of unimaginable torture, with no hope of relief. I mean, how does this knowledge not drive us all insane? I can't even walk around Walmart anymore without constantly thinking to myself, "Most of the people in this store will spend eternity in Hell." I don't know what to do. I feel like I'm going crazy.
I know that no matter what my feelings tell me, my God is just and merciful. I understand that any punishment God hands out is perfectly fair. I know that He is not a sadistic monster, no matter how strongly I feel otherwise. So please do not read this post as me accusing God of those things, because I'm not. I just need to figure out how to reconcile my belief that God is good with my belief that God condemns 99% of people to eternal, conscious torment.
Sorry if this post is all jumbled or makes no sense, I'm really not in the right mental state to be forming coherent thoughts right now.
Jesus talked a great deal more about the reality of a hell, than he did the reality of a heaven, etc...You should struggle with the idea of hell. It's a church doctrine, not a doctrine of Christ.
Jesus talked a great deal more about the reality of a hell, than he did the reality of a heaven, etc...
I wish I could "tickle your ears" with something "much more pleasing", etc, but truth is truth, etc, and it is what it is, etc, and Jesus said what He said, etc...
God Bless!
BTW, I did a search for the words "Heaven" and "Hell" and there was 54 for Hell, but 551 for the word Heaven, so....
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