Reading through Job

[heritage36]

Good topic to start. I have gone through Job a few times in the last year. It is confusing somewhat how God says that Job's friends have spoken wrongly at the end, but you can plainly see that they say many things that are true. They all seem to have a good understanding of God and his ways. It's interesting too that Job is only referenced once in the whole Bible otherwise, and that is in 1 Corinthians 3:19. There Paul is saying how the wisdom of this world is folly with God, so that clearly shows that what Eliphaz said in the quoted part was incorrect. It is unfortunate we do not have more references to clarify other parts of it. A lot of the challenge of Job is spotting out what things that are said are true and what are not. If I can help further with things I would be happy to. Hope your thread is productive and helpful!

 

[granpa]

1 Corinthians 3:19 (Young's Literal Translation)

19for the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God, for it hath been written, `Who is taking the wise in their craftiness;'

Job 5:6-17 (Young's Literal Translation)

6For sorrow cometh not forth from the dust, Nor from the ground springeth up misery.
7For man to misery is born, And the sparks go high to fly.
8Yet I -- I inquire for God, And for God I give my word,
9Doing great things, and there is no searching. Wonderful, till there is no numbering.
10Who is giving rain on the face of the land, And is sending waters on the out-places.
11To set the low on a high place, And the mourners have been high [in] safety.
12Making void thoughts of the subtile, And their hands do not execute wisdom.
13Capturing the wise in their subtilty, And the counsel of wrestling ones was hastened,
14By day they meet darkness, And as night -- they grope at noon.
15And He saveth the wasted from their mouth, And from a strong hand the needy,
16And there is hope to the poor, And perverseness hath shut her mouth.
17Lo, the happiness of mortal man, God doth reprove him: And the chastisement of the Mighty despise not,

 

[papaJP]

The book of Job is written for many to understand something God is giving them.
Having written a thesis on the book of Job I can encourage you to spend a lot of time in prayer and seeking truth. Take time to be quite and listen and God will give you many answers.

 

[Cre Master]

Dear Stryder,

Job is possibly my most favourite book of the bible and it took a complete reading to unlock some of its secrets for me. Until then my impression had not been favourable. I soon learned that there is nothing patient about Job. He challenged God and demanded his 'day in court'. I think ultimately he shamed God and it was only after his remonstrations that God's view of Job's friends became negative.

So I invite you to consider viewing the book as a growth or maturing in the relationship between God and his chosen people.

It is also worth noting the original Jewish view of Satan was no where near as negative as the present Christian one. In Job he is considered more as God's inquisitor or questioner.

The spirit talking to Eliphraz delivers show us why Job forms part of the Wisdom scriptures. It is not afraid to ask the very difficult question of whether God's actions toward Job were less worthy than Job's own. Ultimately one gets the sense they were. God is put on trial, in the end we get a very real sense of God appreciating his created beings more through the challenges of Job and thus a maturing of his attitude.

 

[Cre Master]

Dear Granpa,

Proverbs 3:13 Happy is the man that findeth wisdom, and the man that getteth understanding.

You said "I think the central question of Job is whether God is himself subject to his own laws."

I feel you are on the right track but I see it a little more as Job seeking a standard of behaviour from God.

Up until this point in the Bible God has often acted in a carpricious and arbitary manner toward humans. When Job challenges this God's response is to initially say look at all my achievements and who are you to question my actions. It takes a 'blameless man' to make the case for the rest of us and God seems to respect him for doing so telling him to gird his loins and speak his mind.

 

[papaJP]

I think ultimately he shamed God and it was only after his remonstrations that God's view of Job's friends became negative.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++=
Be careful in what you claim to believe. No one can shame God and He is so far beyond man's understanding that man continues to make ignorant assumptions.

 

[granpa]

some have suggested that abraham was supposed to refuse to sacrifice isaac.
maybe job was supposed to argue with God (as he did)

 

[Cre Master]

Be careful in what you claim to believe. No one can shame God and He is so far beyond man's understanding that man continues to make ignorant assumptions.

Dear papaJP,

You are sounding exactly like one of Job's friends. I am perfectly happy in siding with Job and challenging the actions of God and so should you be if you have read the book and truly understood it's message. He certainly needed to be challenged about his actions toward Job which were arbitrary and prideful. That God was influenced by Satan to treat Job so shamefully for no reason is glaringly obvious. That doesn't make sense if God was completely perfect and all knowing but it does if God is capable of learning a life lesson.

 

[Cre Master]

some have suggested that abraham was supposed to refuse to sacrifice isaac.
maybe job was supposed to argue with God (as he did)

Dear granpa,

The story of Abraham and Issac could well be read as another instance of God being shamed. Remember it was only ten generations since Noah was navigating the Ark through the bloated corpses of mankind. God's treatment of Sodom and Gomorrah obviously had terrified Abraham and he had every right to believe God was on the type of destructive bent that threatened mankind again. Although there had been the promise not to ever flood the world again here was God again smiting the masses although with fire and brimstone instead.

For Abraham to have agreed to sacrifice his only begotten son (he clearly wasn't his only begotten by the way) may well have made God repent of the evil he was about to do.

If we examine the story in these terms then Abraham, although a deeply flawed character, might be seen as a hero. How many of us would be willing to sacrifice our child to save mankind? It seems Abraham was and the bible later tells of God reflecting that act with his willingness to sacrifice his son Jesus.

 

[papaJP]

To argue with God is one thing but to think you can shame God is another. I always question and some call it arguing with God when He tells me to do something I do not want to do. However, I always give in and avoid His placing on me the judgement that is awaiting for those who disobey Him. I have learned that when He tells me to say something I cannot refuse. This goes for prophetic utterances or teachings.