Reading Lahaye...

[2tim]

In an effort to understand the rationale behind the “Left Behind” theology (seven years of tribulation, superhuman antichrist in a rebuilt third temple etc.), I have read Dr. Tim LaHaye and Jerry Jenkins’ book titled ‘Are We Living in the End Times?’

In light of the coming union of church and state, the mind set behind it and all that it will accomplish, I found the following two paragraphs, which had the heading ‘Rebellion Against God,’ interesting indeed. All parenthetical remarks are mine.


Quote: "Rebellion is a way of life today, both nationally and individually." (Note that in the very first sentence a link is made between nation and rebellion. In and of itself this is not overly remarkable but it sets the stage for the next step).

LaHaye Goes on, "Government, media, and education policy is relentlessly removing every vestige of our nation’s heritage that relates to God, prayer, the Bible and Christian values (There it is). For over fifty years faith in God and obedience to Him have been treated as vices rather than virtues and as national liabilities rather than assets (Note, we are talking about national assets here)."

Reading on, "The nation’s capitol is repeatedly embroiled in controversy over using tax funds to teach sexual abstinence to our children in the public schools – even though such teaching is the only training that has proven helpful in stemming the tide of sexual promiscuity (It is interesting to note that just five years after this paragraph was written, President George W. Bush is proposing we do just that)."

"Secularizers (Not actually a word. LaHaye has coined a derogatory term here) insist that government can finance condoms for children, and if they get pregnant, provide them an abortion – but since teaching abstinence is based on the Bible and the Jewish and Christian religions, it is therefore illegitimate. Such a prejudice attitude not only ruins millions of our nation’s youth but displays open rebellion against the will and laws of God.” End quote.



Notice what is being defined here as “open rebellion” against God and His laws. It is secularization of the nation that LaHaye and those who subscribe to this theological position view as “disobedient.” What then is obedience in this context? If we are to understand the statements made above, it involves our nation’s capitol and tax funds. It involves the legislation of morality, the union of church and state. According to this position, only when we are no longer embroiled in debate but are unified in our goal to desecularize (my term) our nation will we finally be obedient to God’s will and His laws.

I am curious which laws (lowercase) the doctor is referring to in that last sentence. This then is the mentality that precedes the union of church and state and ultimately a national Sunday law. Scripture reveals the truth of the matter. There is "a blessing, if ye obey the commandments of the LORD your God…" Deuteronomy 11:27


Thoughts?

I posted this in hopes that it might interest John, who's bored.


God bless,
2Tim

 

[statrei]

In light of the coming union of church and state, the mind set behind it and all that it will accomplish, I found the following two paragraphs, which had the heading ‘Rebellion Against God,’ interesting indeed. All parenthetical remarks are mine.

I wonder about this "coming union." Who says there is a coming union? Why does not the already existing union in other parts of the world not warrant a mention?

 

[2tim]

It warrants mention.
By someone qualified to mention it.
That's probably not me.
You see, I live within the borders of the second beast of Revelation 13 - which has lead me to a perspective that is a little Americentric. I hope you'll understand.

At this moment, here in America, there isn't the kind of legislative evidence I was refering to. Although America has certainly begun to speak as a dragon...

2Tim

 

[statrei]

It warrants mention.
By someone qualified to mention it.
That's probably not me.
You see, I live within the borders of the second beast of Revelation 13 - which has lead me to a perspective that is a little Americentric. I hope you'll understand.

At this moment, here in America, there isn't the kind of legislative evidence I was refering to. Although America has certainly begun to speak as a dragon...

2Tim

So what is your expectation based on if there is not legislative evidence?

 

[2tim]

If I understand you question, the answer is that my expectations are based firmly and entirely upon prophecy.

The legislative evidence of a union of state and church of which I speak is a "Sunday law".

2Tim

 

[catlover]

2tim, Mr. Lahaye and others like him, would like nothing more than to impose their religious views on others and use the government to do so.Those who have minimal understanding of history know a theocracy often leads to persecution of those who disagree with the state's religion.

 

[deu58]

Hi Catlover

2tim, Mr. Lahaye and others like him, would like nothing more than to impose their religious views on others and use the government to do so.Those who have minimal understanding of history know a theocracy often leads to persecution of those who disagree with the state's religion.

I agree that the Government should not be used to enforce any one groups particular religious beliefs upon any other group,

But it can not denied that secular groups are using the Government to enforce a state of personal lawlessness,

It is not just in the US, This is world wide assualt on the people of God in all nations,

We are being marginalized and portrayed as a lunatic fringe clinging to fallacy and myth, We are seen as blocking world progress into a more enlightened age,

there are hard days ahead for the body of Christ, And ity will not be because of a Sunday law,

Sunday is seen as a christian day, If anything that will be removed to, In fact the trend has been in that direction for a long time,

yours in Christ
deu 58

 

[catlover]

We are being marginalized and portrayed as a lunatic fringe clinging to fallacy and myth, We are seen as blocking world progress into a more enlightened age,

There are some Christians who honestly block progress in the medical field. One case and example is whenever one mentions "stem cells". I posted something, on another Christian web site. about stem cells,from a placenta, showing promise. Many people on that site felt stem cells no matter WHERE they come from umbilical cord or placenta ar bad and is the agenda of some evil scientist.
When Lloma Linda did a baboon heart transplant Chrhistian religous groups went nuts.
Christianity has a history of hindering progress in science.

 

[statrei]

If I understand you question, the answer is that my expectations are based firmly and entirely upon prophecy.

The legislative evidence of a union of state and church of which I speak is a "Sunday law".

2Tim

I am aware of the many studies that interpret the book of Revelation to make that claim, but I think that by now we should understand that we are unable to determine just how any prophecy will be fulfilled, especially when it uses symbolic language. For example, before Pentecost no one could have predicted that Pentecost would be the fulfillment of Joel's prophecy. Peter linked that prophecy to Pentecost after the fact.

There is no prophecy that asks us to look for a Sunday law, nor have I found anyone who is willing to state just how such a Sunday law would work.

 

[statrei]

We are being marginalized and portrayed as a lunatic fringe clinging to fallacy and myth, We are seen as blocking world progress into a more enlightened age,

Is that because we are Christians or because our approach to truth invites such a characterization?

 

[jonno]

Why is it when christians speak out against current oppresion by certain governments and their laws, and the road on which they are travelling, they are accused of harbouring hidden motives that may according to some theology or interpretation of prophecy be damaging to the latter

 

[statrei]

Why is it when christians speak out against current oppresion by certain governments and their laws, and the road on which they are travelling, they are accused of harbouring hidden motives that may according to some theology or interpretation of prophecy be damaging to the latter

I'm not sure what your meaning is. Could you please expand?

 

[jonno]

Hi Statrei
You have been following and participating in the thread, have you not?

 

[statrei]

Hi Statrei
You have been following and participating in the thread, have you not?

That has nothing to do with the clarity of your question. I am trying to answer your question.

 

[jonno]

That has nothing to do with the clarity of your question. I am trying to answer your question.

Sorry, I thought you'd get the crux of my qyestion without elaborating further.
What I mean is this: La Haye and many other christians speak out against government and policy makers with regard to laws which inhibit the spreading of the gospel and with the saturday/sunday issue the furthest from their mind,and they are accused of wanting laws to prohibit 7th day sabbath worship. These accusations sometimes smack of a victimisation mentality in the eyes of non-SDA's

 

[statrei]

Sorry, I thought you'd get the crux of my qyestion without elaborating further.
What I mean is this: La Haye and many other christians speak out against government and policy makers with regard to laws which inhibit the spreading of the gospel and with the saturday/sunday issue the furthest from their mind,and they are accused of wanting laws to prohibit 7th day sabbath worship. These accusations sometimes smack of a victimisation mentality in the eyes of non-SDA's

It's a matter of cause and effect. Whenever religious power is linked to political power there is a tendency to pursue the goals of the religious power. We have seen the recent encyclical in which the Pope encourgaged the bishops to restore the sanctity of the day of worship. Many others are incensed at what they call the "secularization" of Sunday. If they they were able to gain influence over the legislature in one way it is easy to see how they could try to wield that power in other ways. Personally, I don't think a Sunday law is anything to worry about but you cannot deny the progression.

 

[jonno]

It's a matter of cause and effect. Whenever religious power is linked to political power there is a tendency to pursue the goals of the religious power. We have seen the recent encyclical in which the Pope encourgaged the bishops to restore the sanctity of the day of worship. Many others are incensed at what they call the "secularization" of Sunday. If they they were able to gain influence over the legislature in one way it is easy to see how they could try to wield that power in other ways. Personally, I don't think a Sunday law is anything to worry about but you cannot deny the progression.

I agree. Thank you
I'd just like to add that the context of a christians statement or general thinking indicated in his works should be taken into account before accusations are flung.

 

[statrei]

I agree. Thank you
I'd just like to add that the context of a christians statement or general thinking indicated in his works should be taken into account before accusations are flung.

Unfortunately, that attitude is far too prevalent among Christians. We are very cannibalistic in our approach.

 

[jonno]

Talking about cannabalistic, my wife's about to chow me if I don't say goodbye for now.
It's 22h20 in south Africa now
See ya

 

[deu58]

Hi Stateri and cat lover

Is that because we are Christians or because our approach to truth invites such a characterization?

Both your replies border on the same type of response, I concede the fact that christians have shown them selves to be very ignorant, intolerant etc,

This mostly stems from disregarding the 2nd greatest commandment, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thy self,

I was not aware of stem cell research in the placenta, I do not see why any one would be against that, The Baboon heart is simply a phsyclogical negatived response,

I am not involved in the medical field but I have heard that pig viens are used to replace human veins, So what is the real difference, Between using part of of an animal for viens and another for a heart transplant??

But it is through the uneducated narrow view that Satan gains ground and attacks us dealing with the real issues concerning Gods law that are being changed,

In The OT anyone who did or taught anything contrary to the law of Moses was put death,

We do not live under the OT syatem but where do we draw the line on non Christian morals, religion, life styles, ideals etc being not only taught but enforced in a country founded on Christian principals,

We are all fond of saying that God does not change, That he is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow,

And yet we forget what happened to Israel because of the apostasy of Solomon fore introducing idol worship into Israel, This was brought about by the foreign wives he married and brought in to Israel,

Enough for now I will wait and see how you respond to this, This is very broad area really and we are looking at only one small area here,

How do we as a body deal with corruption in Governmemt and family, drug addiction, removing God from our schools, Forbidding people to witness Christ in certain places, areas and times, free abortions, same sex marriage etc etc.

Worshipping on Saturday or Sunday will not mean a thing if we turn a blind eye on such things that are an abomination to God,

Biblical history has already proven this,

yours in Christ
deu 58