Read it slow.

[Ragamuffin]

Are you living a life encompassed by self-sufficiency, self-absorbtion, with a preoccupation toward self? Where do you get life? Do you get life from what you drive, what you wear, where you live, your devotional and prayer life, your titles, your wealth, your poverty...? Do you believe that God likes you (not loves you, because He has to according to scripture)? Do you feel that your life is a grave dissapointment to God? Do you believe that God is always just a bit frustrated with your life: your pettiness and constant judgements flowing through your mind toward the guy in the new Mercedes, the guy asking for a handout at the street corner, and liberals? As a guy, do you think that your lust problem isn't a problem, or do you think that you aren't so bad off considering you are not like "that guy" who took his addiction a little farther than just his thought life? Do you feel that who you are in church on Sunday and Wednesday is not who you really are all other days? Do you feel the need to preserve your image at all costs? Do you fear rejection from others and seek their approval? Is there a sinking feeling in your gut that things aren't the way they are supposed to be and you are the cause? You know you don't pray enough, read enough, give enough, witness enough...

Enough said. Let the light of God's Spirit illuminate you for who you really are. Uncover the imposter. Don't be afraid. Understand that God has one unrelenting stance toward you. He loves you and is in love with you and wants to be your "Abba." He wants your trust. He wants your ear. He wants your time. You are His kid. You are the apple of his eye. You were on his mind when He created you. He is not a Cosmic Sheriff waiting with hand upraised ready to smack you upside the head for the least mistake. Isn't it refreshing to know that when you break one law (and we do all day long), you are guilty of it all? And then Jesus steps in and reminds us that we break the law even in our thoughts! Greg Laurie, Billy Graham, Pastor superstar... are not "better" than you! It's the Great Reverse! This is an all and out scandal! You showed up at 11:59 and yet you got the days's wage! If that doesn't throw you to the ground in self-abandoned mercy and surrender to the Lover of your soul and the "Pioneer" of your faith, check your pulse, or ask the Pharisee in the mirror if he is seething and angry at the thought that he can't pull himself up by his bootstraps as his totebag of achievments spill to the ground for everyone to see. We are beggars at the door of God's mercy. And then God sees us from afar, with the stench of hogs steaming from our pathetic bodies, perhaps even diseased from a rampage of illicit sex with total strangers, and he runs to you with arms outstretched, kissing you without end, only to find yourself the guest of honor at a feast celebrating your return. God wants you. Plain old ordinary, ornery, middle-of-the-road, average, billionaire, bag lady, superstar, deacon, elder... you. Stop where you are, cease the impressing of God that we all do, just stop and say, "Abba, I belong to You," and let Him love you. Immerse yourself in His presence. Nothing will be the same.

Any thoughts?

Ragamuffin

 

[endure]

praise God
i thank God for grace.
i only fear using it at an occasion to the flesh.

its just though i agree with what you said, often times the defeat of self and the need for grace, spurs people to have no convictions, becuase convictions are pointless when holiness is pointless.
i beleive there is a God given perfection we can walk in. and its a change of bodily actions, not just a change of spiritual destination.

and one thought that strives me on
"how can we who are dead to sin, sin anylonger?"
i dont think i can have the attitude that
"im just a sinner, see how many times i sinned today? but im still saved!"
i think it is a shameful thing for a christian to sin, spurring us to ask the question
"how can i sin like this? I AM DEAD TO SIN, NOOOO!"

no, it doesnt make sense.
i am a firm beleive in what peter said 1 pet 4.1-2
that he who is willing to suffer can cease to sin, through the power of almighty God.
i know we are weak, and sin is great, but God is greater.

 

[Ragamuffin]

I appreciate your response. I think you might be missing the point. Your response seems to bring with it a preoccupation with works. You mention holiness. Did you know that Hebrews says "God has made perfect forever (position) those who are being made holy (practice). It has been my experience that the more holy a person becomes, the more they see and realize the depth of their own darkness. Remember Isaiah 6:5, "Woe is me! for I am undone; because I am a man of unclean lips, and I dwell in the midst of a people of unclean lips: for mine eyes have seen the King, the LORD of hosts. ..." It is only after seeing the Lord that he makes such a statement. St. Augustine on his deathbed, after being revived, proclaimed, "I have seen the Lord, all I have written is straw."
Don't forget Paul, who, by your own admission would be considered "shamed," given the fact that he "I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do . . ." Romans 7.

This God-given perfection you speak of; In the last chapter of 2 Corinthians Paul mentions that he is praying for their "perfection," that they wouldn't do anything wrong. The word used there (it is a great word study) carries the meaning of completion in all details. I do believe that God is "changing us into His likeness" from glory to glory as you do I'm sure, but if we were to rely, or believe for a nano-second that this is in any way meritorious, that is heresy. The bible says that if righteousness could be gained through the law (what we do), Christ died for nothing (somewhere in Galatians). I encourage you to see yourself for who you really are in your utter nothingness. Read Imitation of Christ, the most widely read devotional ever, and you'll pick up on that theme.
Scripture also says that the grace of God that has appeared teaches us to say "no" to ungodliness and worldly passions, and to live an upright and holy life. But all this is simply a RESPONSE. Anything we "do" in the Christian life is FRUIT from knowing and spending time with Jesus.
I agree with your statement, "i know we are weak, and sin is great, but God is greater." Remember that His "strength is made perfect in our weakness." (2 Corinthians 12).

"Grace is offensive to the legalist." Chuck Swindoll

Praise Him!

 

[WeakButHopeful]

Do you fear rejection from others and seek their approval? Is there a sinking feeling in your gut that things aren't the way they are supposed to be and you are the cause? You know you don't pray enough, read enough, give enough, witness enough...

Well Ragamuffin, the above portion of your original post is pretty relevant to me, which is not to say that other parts didn't also ring somewhat true.
I have come to recognize (since coming here to CF and having some wonderful exchanges with various folks) that God loves me right now, in spite of all my stubborn defiance and bad habits and assorted other "warts". So although I do feel that God is a loving father and not an angry sheriff, as the child of this incredibly loving father I do still want to please him, as any child does. It's part of getting closer and developing a relationship with Jesus (I think). I worry that years of focusing on the wrong things and making poor decisions and wasting resources has dug me into a hole, and time is running short. By that I do *not* mean time to pay for my sins with good works, because I couldn't do that, and Jesus already has. What I mean is time is running short for me to produce fruits, and I am ethically bound to also fulfill duties like seeing my kids through college, working at a job that demands a lot of my time, paying off past debts that if I had it to do over again I would not get into, etc. I realize God knows all this, but I guess it just seems to me that if I take the attitude "One day at a time, do the best you can, fruit will just come" it seems like I would be taking a very passive stance that could cause me to miss a change that God wants me to make or a new activity he wants me to get involved in.
Well, you asked if anyone had any thoughts. These are my thoughts, rambling and confused as they are.
Thanks for starting this thread.

 

[Godschild]

I do believe that nothing that I do is good enough to please God. I feel so unworthy, (I know that I am unworthy of his love anyway though) I love Him soo much, yet, I admit, I never really take the time to stop and tell Him how much he means to me. I definitely know that I do things just so I won't lose my friends, I do things just so they will respect me, when I should really be doing things that please God and make him proud. I feel, no, I know that I am letting God down and making him sad by the life that I am leading. I'm being lazy, which is wrong, and I blame it on myself, because I know that it is my fault.
But it is comforting to know that God accepts me anyway, and lets me know that despite my faults and flaws, he still loves me anyway.

 

[Ragamuffin]

WeakButHopeful, when you said:
"time is running short for me to produce fruits," what did you mean?

You certainly aren't old. Or are you? Here is a thought, since we ARE in the DEEPER THOUGHTS section. You really have no idea how old you are until you die. If I will die at 35, then I am an old, old man. If WeakButHopeful will ultimately die at 102, then we would say that you are a kid. Hmmm.

Godschild,
kYou are very brave and genuine for sharing that. Remember, God looks at the heart. You may not be all the way there yet with your mouth, your feet, or your hands, but we are told that the "pure in heart" will see God. Keep your heart honest before Him. God has some great things in store for you. Let me challenge you, for a week; trust me here. Get up an hour earlier than you normally do, and find a quiet place (A.W. Tozer used to cloister himself into the furnace room for lack of a better place). Picture yourself on your heavenly Abba's (Dadoo, as my son calls me) lap. Say these words: Abba, I belong to you. Then let the Holy Spirit minister to your heart. Listen, listen, and then listen a little more. Bring your bible, but don't let it be a distraction from listening. James tells us to be "quick to listen, slow to speak" (as I ramble... ha ha). Read Luke 12:22-32; Psalm 131; John 14:1-6; Romans 8:14-17 during those times of meditation. The mark of a true disciple is trust. Trust God and His words to you. I'll bet that your week will ring with a new and different tone. I don't guarantee hapiness (which depends on circumstances), but I do promise joy (deep, and to the core of who you are).

Praise Him,
Ragamuffin

 

[JDRoss]

God wants you. Plain old ordinary, ornery, middle-of-the-road, average, billionaire, bag lady, superstar, deacon, elder... you. Stop where you are, cease the impressing of God that we all do, just stop and say, "Abba, I belong to You," and let Him love you. Immerse yourself in His presence. Nothing will be the same.

Any thoughts?

Ragamuffin

Your words really moved me, thank you. Praise God for that post, and may God Bless you.

 

[endure]

well,
with no further ado, i will say that we simply do not agree on some of this.
and i will leave it at that.
though i do agree with much of what you said.
where all the lines cross is a very detailed and drawn out talk, meant for a diffrent place.

Godbless you and goodday.
goodpost.

 

[The Midge]

Ragamuffin,
FYI you have touched on one of endure's favourite hobby horses and his response is being very restrained and he means well. He comes from a tradition that find your interpretation of Hebrews difficult to understand. He is doing his best not to get draggeed into a debate about it. (Well done Endure )

Great thought Ragamuffin! Thanks.

 

[Ragamuffin]

Thanks for the blessing Endure. I would love to go deeper in thought, discussion, debate, dialogue, and even shoot the breeze with you elsewhere on these and other subjects for sure. Let us never quit "working out our salvation with fear and trembling."
I believe it is a very healthy thing to agree to disagree. Someone once said : "On the essentials we must have unity, on non-essentials - liberty, and in everything - charity."
Keep seeking Him out a pure and devoted heart, and remember that God loves you so much.

Be blessed,
Ragamuffin

 

[Selznak]

Thank you for the thought provoking post Ragamuffin! I must confess that it has helped to reorient me toward what is truly important. I am a man who has often struggled with lust, anger, and self-absorbtion. I've noiticed that even as we wrestle with what we often consider overwhelming problems, our love for God and what he has done for us grows, and eventually overshadows whatever difficulties we fight against.

 

[Ragamuffin]

It is disarming to think that God's love for us is a continuous act, and not a response to our behavior. He has a "furious" love toward us! Wow! Relentless tenderness.

Romans 15:13 "May the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace as you trust in him, so that you may overflow with hope by the power of the Holy Spirit."

Praise Him,
Ragamuffin

 

[endure]

ragamuffin

sure,
if you want, lets create a new thread where we can talk about this.
somewhere that does not have an alternate purpose that would be drawn away from.
im more than willing to tell you why i beleive the way i do.
and oh yeah, its not a "hobby horse" as midge said mistakenly.
it is a deep coviction and honor of the truth.
i just do not want to debate, i have made a commitment to never debate again.
becuase honestly, ive never seen a debate that wasnt simply about "who was right or wrong". and many find that a reason to do many things, but i do not. ive grown up and moved on to helping people, and sometimes that means ignoring "who is right or wrong". becuase life is not found in the rescouces of the mind. my theology changes a bit everyday, and if God doesnt beat me up for that, then i cant make a point to correct everyone else either.
but sure, ill have a cup of joe and talk about this. as long as helping people is the purpose, and not simply trying to prove we right.


midge
thankyou.

 

[Ragamuffin]

Good word. Sometimes it's best to let your karma run over your dogma. Writing can be tiring; especially in this type of forum. "love one another" is what refreshes. Let's talk or even email. Let me know.


By the way, I don't believe in karma.

Ragamuffin

 

[endure]

PM will do perfectly i think.

i take it you will initiate?....

though i will probly not be on more than 2 or 3 times a week for about an hour, unless i feel the need to post something important.