re-baptise

[MariaRegina]

Prior to celebrating His final Passover, which He changed into the Sacrament of the Eucharist, Christ went to the dirtiest part of His apostles and cleansed it; on their bodies, it was their feet. In our souls, it is our sins that are the dirtiest part of us. Jesus said to St. Peter "He who has washed (baptism) does not need to wash except his feet (confession)". In Baptism we were made clean, yet we still need to "wash our feet" in Reconciliation when we fall as all humans do.

So the teaching is double. Not only was Christ giving an example of humility and servitude, He was also showing that we must cleanse our dirtiest part prior to partaking in the Pascal feast - thus, Confession prior to Eucharist.

My dearest Credo: Christ is Risen!

I write these comments for educational purposes, so please read with understanding and love.

How did you come to believe that the Apostles were baptized? Can you quote from some ancient authorities? I have never heard any scriptures nor any historians of the Church cover that ground.

There is the Catholic expression: Christ is not bound by the sacraments but men are. Paraphrasing a pithy Catholic expression: God made the sacraments for men, not the other way around.

Do you remember the scriptures that detail the death of Christ? Christ said to the Good Thief on the Cross, "This day you shall be with me in Paradise." So the Good Thief was cleansed by the very Word of God in person. That was not baptism by desire, nor was it baptism by water, nor was it baptism by blood. The thief wasn't a martyr; he was a criminal, undergoing the death penalty, and he knew he deserved it. He was truly repentant. He was baptized and cleansed through the utterances of Christ, the Word of God: "This day you shall be with me in Paradise."

The Apostles could have been cleansed by Christ in the same way. In fact, my priest told me that when Christ washed their feet, that was their baptism, then they were cleansed. Reread that scripture, as after Peter had his feet washed, he demanded that Christ wash him all over, but Christ said that it wasn't necessary, as he was already cleansed.

Furthermore, the Roman Catholic Church says that some part of the body has to have water flowing over it. Could be the head, the feet. Otherwise, how can you baptize a man in the desert or during a drought? This is why baptism by pouring water over the head has been used for centuries within Catholicism.

Incidentally, I have been to several Catholic and Orthodox baptisms where the priest had an angry young fellow (at terrible two) who would not let anyone undress him. What do you do? Autistic children can have the same problem. The Church believes in the divine economia. So what did the priest do? He took the child and poured water all over his head. He couldn't immerse the child unless he first knocked him out, and that wouldn't be ethical. Would it?

Peter's first confession of sins came after the Resurrection when Christ asked, "Peter do you love me," three times. It was a sincere baptism of repentance and tears. Historians say that Peter had permanent scars or grooves down his face from all his tears. This is what HOLY CONFESSION is all about, repentance and tears. Sorry, your comment about the washing of feet doesn't sound very tearful to me.

Any comments or corrections?

Your sister in Christ,

Elizabeth

 

[Caedmon]

Hey, at least you got dunked, Joe. I was baptized by infusion----pouring over the head.

Most Catholic babies are. Adults are often immersed, though.

I'm still having a hard time with this. I mean, if baptism is such a big thing, then why wouldn't a priest baptize me if I asked him to? It's not like I'd be trying to make him commit sacrilege or anything. Would he not do it, even for my own peace of mind?

 

[Caedmon]

Dearest Humblejoe:

I decided to delete the joke because we in the Holy Orthodox Catholic Church are really not suppose to joke about the Holy Sacraments and make fun of them.

I have to do what my conscience tells me is right and correct.

Sorry. Please forgive me a sinner.

Your sister in Christ,

Elizabeth

It's ok ... Although I'll have to say, I couldn't quite place the southern connection in the joke, esp. since most of those in the south would probably only dunk once.

 

[Caedmon]

My dearest Credo: Christ is Risen!
Historians say that Peter had permanent scars or grooves down his face from all his tears.

Which historians were these, and how did they know?

 

[Credo]

Greetings Chanter!

Thanks for the reply and insight. Before I reply, let me assure you that I'm not at all challenging the fact that God is not bound by the sacraments. I've used this quote many times myself. Nor am I challenging the manner of Baptism. I know that any part of the body may be used in certain circumstances, however the preferred method is over the head.

How did you come to believe that the Apostles were baptized? Can you quote from some ancient authorities? I have never heard any scriptures nor any historians of the Church cover that ground.

I don't know that they were either by scripture or authorities. This will give me something to research. I assume that they were by this time as they had participated in Christ's ministry along with Him. I may be wrong; again, I don't know for certain, it's only an assumption.

Peter's first confession of sins came after the Resurrection when Christ asked, "Peter do you love me," three times. It was a sincere baptism of repentance and tears. Historians say that Peter had permanent scars or grooves down his face from all his tears. This is what HOLY CONFESSION is all about, repentance and tears. Sorry, your comment about the washing of feet doesn't sound very tearful to me.

John 13: 6 He came to Simon Peter; and Peter said to him, "Lord, do you wash my feet?" 7 Jesus answered him, "What I am doing you do not know now, but afterward you will understand." 8 Peter said to him, "You shall never wash my feet."

Jesus has not yet washed Peter's feet, he has only come to him to do so when Peter begins the exchange. Jesus says that he will not understand what he's doing. At the beginning of Jesus' public ministry, the first thing He did was to be baptised. All understood what Baptism was about as John the Baptist had been preaching repentance and many came to him to be washed, confessing as they did. Jesus had also commented on being reborn in water and the spirit. What weren't they going to understand? The master washing the dirtiest part of us.

Jesus answered him, "If I do not wash you, you have no part in me." 9 Simon Peter said to him, "Lord, not my feet but also my hands and my head!" 10 Jesus said to him, "He who has bathed does not need to wash, except for his feet, but he is clean all over; - notice that Jesus still hasn't washed Peter's feet yet - and you are clean, but not every one of you." 11 For he knew who was to betray him;

Peter was declared clean before his feet were washed...but not all were clean. The one to betray him was Judas, and this makes me think that all were already Baptised, either with water or through the Grace of Christ, except for Judas.

I realize that this isn't a tearful holy confession with tears and repentance. As I said in my previous post, Jesus was going to the dirtiest part of their bodies, their feet, to show a reality that they wouldn't understand yet. In contrast, we must do the same, have the dirtiest part of us cleansed before we can have a part in Christ.

One more quote from a Bible study by Dr. Scott Hahn about the washing:
But it is more than merely a lesson in behavior. It is also a reminder of our baptism. Jesus could have chosen any number of images to picture humble service. He chose washing. And John records it because he means to give instruction to the baptised and the ordained on the nature of the life to which they are called...For Jesus' remark, "He who has bathed does not need to was, except for his feet, but he is clean all over; and you are clean" makes the most sense in light of Baptism and the sacrament of Reconciliation. In Baptism, we are made clean, yet we need to "wash our feet" in Reconciliation when we fall as we tend to do.

I don't know if the Church has made a definite declaration on these passages in scripture to say which sacrament they refer to. Perhaps it's both, we must have Baptism and Confession before receiving the Eucharist. What I've said is just what I've found through study and sermons. By the way, I heard another priest refer to the Church's teaching on the Penetential Rite at the beginning of Mass which washes all venial sin from us; he said that the washing of the feet symbolised this Rite.

I've also heard that Peter had grooves worn in his face from all the tears that denying Jesus cost him. In fact, there's a painting of Peter's crucifixion by Caravaggio that show something that could be grooves or wrinkles due to his age, but I prefer to look at them as the Tear Grooves.

Loved the dialogue! God Bless!

 

[MariaRegina]

I'm still having a hard time with this. I mean, if baptism is such a big thing, then why wouldn't a priest baptize me if I asked him to? It's not like I'd be trying to make him commit sacrilege or anything. Would he not do it, even for my own peace of mind?

Dearest humblejoe:

I can understand how you feel, but you won't be left out. Look at where you are at, you are already baptized. You already have the grace of God within you. The only thing that is lacking is the completion of Baptism by Confirmation and Holy Communion. So you really do have something to look forward to. Get a new suit for the occasion.

If the RCIA people do not want to give you more materials, then do an internet search at a good website.

Remember Baptism is only the beginning. You don't need it again. Confirmation and Holy Communion are really great sacraments or Holy Mysteries of the Church. You are going to receive Christ within you.

Hope this helps.

Elizabeth

 

[CrossMovement]

Deny. There is only ONE BAPTISM as the Church teaches. If she did not receive Confirmation as a youth, then that would be the statement of faith she would give.

Kotton  

I don't understand this baptist thing ... Jesus was not baptised when he was a baby. So why are we ??

I always has this question on my mind

please help me

 

[CrossMovement]

I don't understand this baptist thing ... Jesus was not baptised when he was a baby. So why are we ??

I always has this question on my mind

please help me

I was baptised has a baby but now I feel that being baptised for really myself will give me proud and more faith because I am more conscious of what I do.

I don't know what to do

 

[MariaRegina]

I was baptised has a baby but now I feel that being baptised for really myself will give me proud and more faith because I am more conscious of what I do.

Dearest Joy in Christ:

Christ is Risen!

There is only one Baptism. If you were not baptized correctly, then you are considered to be unbaptized and can be baptized correctly. Members of JW and mormons do not have valid baptisms. Some Catholics were incorrectly baptized as babies because the priest used a heretical form such as, "I baptize you in the name of the Creator, Redeemer and Sanctifier." If you were baptized with that formula, you are not baptized and then you can be baptized correctly.

Were you baptized with the Trinitarian formula, "I baptize you in the name of the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Spirit." If you were and this can be documented then there is no need for baptism.

Really, the most important sacrament is the Holy Eucharist. This is what you should be preparing to receive. When I received Confirmation, all of a sudden the scriptures came alive, and I had power to overcome sin andtemptation that I didn't have before.

So look forward to receiving Confirmation and Holy Communion.

Hope this helps,
Elizabeth

 

[CrossMovement]

Dearest Joy in Christ:

Christ is Risen!

There is only one Baptism. If you were not baptized correctly, then you are considered to be unbaptized and can be baptized correctly. Members of JW and mormons do not have valid baptisms. Some Catholics were incorrectly baptized as babies because the priest used a heretical form such as, "I baptize you in the name of the Creator, Redeemer and Sanctifier." If you were baptized with that formula, you are not baptized and then you can be baptized correctly.

Were you baptized with the Trinitarian formula, "I baptize you in the name of the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Spirit." If you were and this can be documented then there is no need for baptism.

Really, the most important sacrament is the Holy Eucharist. This is what you should be preparing to receive. When I received Confirmation, all of a sudden the scriptures came alive, and I had power to overcome sin andtemptation that I didn't have before.

So look forward to receiving Confirmation and Holy Communion.

Hope this helps,
Elizabeth

i don't know what the priest said to me or the word he employ (to young ééé) , or even if i asked to my parent they won't remember.

Jesus was baptised when he was older so why are we baptiser young ???? Yes there is just 1 baptise I know but when Jesus was baptised , he knew what he was doing.

His the Question : What would Jesus do ? Stand for here ???

Please answer to this question if you can

 

[Credo]

Jesus was baptised when he was older so why are we baptiser young ???? Yes there is just 1 baptise I know but when Jesus was baptised , he knew what he was doing.

Being baptised as an infant goes all the way back to the Old Testament covenant God made with the Jews. Any child born into the covenant was circumcised at the age of 8 days old. This, of course, was done without any consent to the child, it was the parents that brought their child into the covenant with God. It was done in anticipation of the Jewish faith they would be raised in.

In the new covenant, St. Paul notes that baptism has replaced circumcision:

Colossians 2: 11 and in Him you were also circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, in the removal of the body of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ; 12 having been buried with Him in baptism, in which you were also raised up with Him

So, Baptism is now the entry into the New Covenant with God. If the Old Covenant included infants, why would the new fulfillment of that Covenant exclude them? As Jewish infants were circumcised in anticipation of the Jewish faith they were raised in, so Christian infants are baptised in anticipation of the Christian faith they will be raised in.

Hope this helps answer your question. For a more detailed explanation, here's a link to Catholic Answers on Infant Baptism: http://www.catholic.com/library/Infant_Baptism.asp

God Bless!

 

[Benedicta00]

Jesus was baptised when he was older so why are we baptiser young ???? Yes there is just 1 baptise I know but when Jesus was baptised , he knew what he was doing.

Jesus received John's baptism, that is not the same as the baptism that we receive.

 

[Caedmon]

Dearest humblejoe:

I can understand how you feel, but you won't be left out. Look at where you are at, you are already baptized. You already have the grace of God within you. The only thing that is lacking is the completion of Baptism by Confirmation and Holy Communion. So you really do have something to look forward to. Get a new suit for the occasion.

If the RCIA people do not want to give you more materials, then do an internet search at a good website.

Remember Baptism is only the beginning. You don't need it again. Confirmation and Holy Communion are really great sacraments or Holy Mysteries of the Church. You are going to receive Christ within you.

Hope this helps.

Elizabeth

Well you have to understand that I was raised in a church where baptism was almost the only "sacrament." They called it an ordinance, along with communion. However, communion was only held as few as 2 to 4 times a year, and it wasn't really seen as that big of a deal. So baptism was the big thing. And I'm just having a real hard time getting past it. I just don't understand why a priest wouldn't baptize me.

 

[MariaRegina]

Well you have to understand that I was raised in a church where baptism was almost the only "sacrament." They called it an ordinance, along with communion. However, communion was only held as few as 2 to 4 times a year, and it wasn't really seen as that big of a deal. So baptism was the big thing. And I'm just having a real hard time getting past it. I just don't understand why a priest wouldn't baptize me.

Gloria a Jesucristo! Gloria a El para siempre!

Dearest Humblejoe: My joy in Christ!

When you move into a new home you have to get used to where things are, and the first few nights you may bump into things because things are different.

When you come into a new church, you must learn to adapt to the new ways of doing things. The Catholic Church has an expression, "When in Rome, do as the Romans." (Otherwise you'll stand out like a sore thumb.)

Baptism is only once. You can only be born once from the womb. In the same way, supernatural birth takes place only once. You can only die with Christ and rise with him only once, as Christ died only once. The Nicene Creed says, "I believe in one baptism for the remission of sins."

The Church has provided for sins committed after baptism. This is called Holy Confession and is also referred to as a type of Second Baptism, Baptism of Tears, or a Baptism of Repentance.

BINGO! There you go. You can have Baptism of Repentance every moment of your life. In fact, we are supposed to be continually repentant.

SOOOOOO! Every time you feel depressed and fail to trust in God, go to God with tears of repentance, begging His forgiveness and you will have experienced God's joyful cleansing. For more serious sins, we receive the Holy Sacrament of Confession - our baptism of tears. Rightly so does the Church call Confession the Second Baptism because it follows the Sacrament of Baptism.

Anyway, I don't want to hit you with too much theology, but once you experience the Mystery of Holy Communion it will become a very important part of your life. As you mature in your faith, you will appreciate God's gift of Life and Love - The Eucharist.

Hope this helps.

¡Hasta luego!

Elizabeth

 

[Caedmon]

chanterhanson: "Historians say that Peter had permanent scars or grooves down his face from all his tears."

humblejoe: "Which historians were these, and how did they know?"

Could you tell me the answer to this, chanterhanson?

 

[MariaRegina]

chanterhanson: "Historians say that Peter had permanent scars or grooves down his face from all his tears."

humblejoe: "Which historians were these, and how did they know?"

Could you tell me the answer to this, chanterhanson?

Dearest Humblejoe:

If you check the Orthodox Forum, there is a new website on the Early Church Fathers. You can order a CD which has a powerful search engine and will give you that answer.

Perhaps, if you do a google search you can find the answer. I grew up with priests and nuns telling me about he grooves in Peter's face every Good Friday for years. So I know it was written by the Church historians, but which one, I have no clue. Time to search. See who finds it first. Okay. Go. ('tis a game)

Yours in Christ,
Elizabeth