*RC ONLY* Post-Schism Saints

[RileyG]

Does anyone know why the Catholic Church OFFICIALLY recognizes many post-schism Eastern Orthodox Saints?

Such saints include:
St. Stephen of Perm
St. Boris and St. Gleb
St. Sergio's of Randonezh
St. Abraham of Smolensk

Is there a reason behind this, especially since the didn't die in communion with the Catholic Church?

Thanks

 

[Michie]

I dunno…invincible ignorance? Are we speaking of the Eastern Catholics?

 

[Michie]

Saint Stephen, Bishop of Perm

Saint Stephen the Enlightener of Perm, and Apostle to the Zyrians, was born around the year 1340 into the family of Simeon, a cleric of the Ustiug cathedral. He was greatly influenced by his pious mother Maria. Endowed with great abilities, he already displayed an unusual zeal for the service of…

www.oca.org

Saints Boris & Gleb of Russia | Orthodox Lives of the Saints

Saints Boris and Gleb, also known as the Passion Bearers, were medieval Russian princes and martyrs who lived during the 10th and 11th centuries. They were the sons of Saint Vladimir the Great, the ruler of the Kievan Rus' and the Grand Prince of Kiev, who played a significant role in the...

www.livesofthesaintscalendar.com

St. Sergius of Radonezh

Undoubtedly, the most outstanding establisher of the truly selfless “life equal to the angels” in fourteenth century Russia is St. Sergius of Radonezh, the founder of the famous Holy Trinity-St. Sergius Monastery, which embodies in its historical legacy his blessed precepts, and gradually became...

orthochristian.com

Venerable Abramius the Wonderworker, Archimandrite of Smolensk

Saint Abramius of Smolensk, a preacher of repentance and the Dread Last Judgment, was born in the mid-twelfth century at Smolensk of rich parents, who had twelve daughters before him, and they begged God for a son. From childhood he grew up in the fear of God, he was often in church and had the…

www.oca.org

 

[Michie]

@chevyontheriver ?

@zippy2006 ?

 

[Gnarwhal]

Does anyone know why the Catholic Church OFFICIALLY recognizes many post-schism Eastern Orthodox Saints?

Such saints include:
St. Stephen of Perm
St. Boris and St. Gleb
St. Sergio's of Randonezh
St. Abraham of Smolensk

Is there a reason behind this, especially since the didn't die in communion with the Catholic Church?

Thanks

I'd assume they're venerated in the Eastern Churches, maybe they were "brought over" when those groups reunited with Rome. That's the only reason I can think of, other than it being just another case of Rome making concessions to the Orthodox in the interest of ecumenism. Which I don't like.

 

[RileyG]

I dunno…invincible ignorance? Are we speaking of the Eastern Catholics?

They were actually orthodox, not Catholic

 

[Michie]

They were actually orthodox, not Catholic

I’m stumped…

 

[RileyG]

I’m stumped…

Maybe because they lead holy lives and the church now believes they are in heaven?

 

[chevyontheriver]

@chevyontheriver ?

@zippy2006 ?

I never heard of any of them?

 

[RileyG]

I never heard of any of them?

Yeah, I had to search them out.

 

[Michie]

I never heard of any of them?

Maybe in the Eastern Catholic Church they are referred to but still… it’s a head scratcher.

 

[RileyG]

Maybe in the Eastern Catholic Church they are referred to but still… it’s a head scratcher.

There are certainly no post reformation Protestant saints honored in the RCC that I’m aware of.

 

[Michie]

There are certainly no post reformation Protestant saints honored in the RCC that I’m aware of.

I know when I was in RCIA I brought up other devout Christians outside the RCC. Corrie Tenboom, etc. There is certainly no denial that other Christians are recognized as making it to heaven or dying in God’s friendship. Officially recognizing them as saints seems to be a different thing though. I have been trying to research it and have not come up with anything worth posting so far.

 

[chevyontheriver]

I know when I was in RCIA I brought up other devout Christians outside the RCC. Corrie Tenboom, etc. There is certainly no denial that other Christians are recognized as making it to heaven or dying in God’s friendship. Officially recognizing them as saints seems to be a different thing though. I have been trying to research it and have not come up with anything worth posting so far.

I think we have to be a bit careful of 'appropriation' in adopting the revered ones of others. The Lutherans (ELCA) did this with Martin Luther King and a bunch of other names. We did it with those Coptic martyrs from North Africa recently. Just maybe it won't sit well with the ones who have a claim on those revered ones. But also we might be canonizing someone for political reasons that it would be a stretch to canonize on merits alone.

We do have a bunch of saints in common with the Orthodox, but they are our saints as much as theirs, from before the schism. I didn't even know there were common ones after the schism.

 

[RileyG]

I think we have to be a bit careful of 'appropriation' in adopting the revered ones of others. The Lutherans (ELCA) did this with Martin Luther King and a bunch of other names. We did it with those Coptic martyrs from North Africa recently. Just maybe it won't sit well with the ones who have a claim on those revered ones. But also we might be canonizing someone for political reasons that it would be a stretch to canonize on merits alone.

We do have a bunch of saints in common with the Orthodox, but they are our saints as much as theirs, from before the schism. I didn't even know there were common ones after the schism.

The ELCA and Episcopal Church both recognize quite a few of post reformation Catholic saints.

 

[chevyontheriver]

The ELCA and Episcopal Church both recognize quite a few of post reformation Catholic saints.

And a few folks we might consider to be scoundrels to boot.

 

[Bob Crowley]

There are certainly no post reformation Protestant saints honored in the RCC that I’m aware of.

I'm hoping the time comes that there will be, but the churches would have to reunity first.

I can think of a dozen Protestant "Saints" off the top of my head - Dietrich Bonhoeffer, the Wesley brothers, CS Lewis, William Wilberforce, General William Booth, Billy Graham, George Muller, Dwight Moody, David Livingstone, William Carey, Anthony Groves ...

In Australia Rev. John Flynn who set up the Royal Flying Doctor Service ...

And ... er ... my old Presbyterian pastor...?

 

[zippy2006]

I'd assume they're venerated in the Eastern Churches, maybe they were "brought over" when those groups reunited with Rome.

This would be my guess as well. It's a good question.

 

[fide]

I dunno…invincible ignorance? Are we speaking of the Eastern Catholics?

Invincible ignorance, it seems to me, could explain this as well as could allow many many persons into Glory who may well surprise us on that Day. Canon law will not be the Judge; divine Truth which includes justice and mercy will. Those in Glory who did not know the fullness of Truth before they died, will embrace it gratefully when they see it then.

Catechism:

1790 A human being must always obey the certain judgment of his conscience. If he were deliberately to act against it, he would condemn himself. Yet it can happen that moral conscience remains in ignorance and makes erroneous judgments about acts to be performed or already committed.
1791 This ignorance can often be imputed to personal responsibility. This is the case when a man “takes little trouble to find out what is true and good, or when conscience is by degrees almost blinded through the habit of committing sin.”<GS 16> In such cases, the person is culpable for the evil he commits.
1792 Ignorance of Christ and his Gospel, bad example given by others, enslavement to one’s passions, assertion of a mistaken notion of autonomy of conscience, rejection of the Church’s authority and her teaching, lack of conversion and of charity: these can be at the source of errors of judgment in moral conduct.
1793 If - on the contrary - the ignorance is invincible, or the moral subject is not responsible for his erroneous judgment, the evil committed by the person cannot be imputed to him. It remains no less an evil, a privation, a disorder. One must therefore work to correct the errors of moral conscience.