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RC invited to GA

rmwilliamsll

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Presbyterian Moderator-Elect Invites Roman Primate of Ireland to the General Assembly

The Westminster Confession (WC), the official creed of the Presbyterian Church in Ireland (PCI), states that "such as profess the true reformed religion should not marry with infidels, Papists, or other idolaters" (WC 24:3). Yet the PCI Moderator-elect, Rev. Ken Newell, has invited the primate of the Roman Catholic Church in Ireland to be his honoured guest at the opening night of the Presbyterian General Assembly (7 June, 2004).

A church is Presbyterian to the degree in which she is faithful to Presbyterian doctrine, sacraments, worship, discipline and church government as set forth in the Westminster Confession as a summary of the Bible’s teaching.

Presbyterianism confesses the sufficiency of the self-interpreting canonical Scriptures (WC 1). God is absolutely sovereign over all things (WC 3), including the fall of Adam and all other sins (WC 4:4). Man "hath wholly lost all ability of will to any spiritual good" (WC 9:3), and even his possession of a corrupted nature is itself "properly sin" (WC 6:5). "By the decree of God, for the manifestation of his glory, some men and angels are predestinated unto everlasting life, and others foreordained to everlasting death" (WC 3:3). Christ died for "the elect only" (WC 3:6) whom in due time He irresistibly calls (WC 10) and justifies by imputing to them the righteousness of Christ alone received by faith alone (WC 11). All elect saints certainly persevere by grace to the end (WC 17) and even in this life receive assurance of their salvation (WC 18). All these doctrines are denied by Rome.

Contrary to Romanism, Presbyterianism acknowledges "only two sacraments ordained by Christ" and not seven (WC 27:4). Water baptism does not regenerate (WC 28:5). The mass is "most abominably injurious to Christ’s one only sacrifice" (WC 29:2). Transubstantiation "hath been and is the cause of manifold superstitions, yea, of gross idolatries" (WC 29:6).

Presbyterianism avows that "the acceptable way of worshipping the true God is instituted by himself, and so limited by his own revealed will, that he may not be worshipped according to the imaginations and devices of men, or the suggestions of Satan, under any visible representation, or any other way not prescribed in the holy Scripture" (WC 21:1). Only the Triune God is to be worshipped and that only through the mediation of Christ alone (WC 21:2). The "whole time" of the Lord’s Day is to be "kept holy" (WC 21:8); prayer "for the dead" is forbidden (WC 21:4).

Presbyterian discipline (WC 30) and church government (WC 31) are likewise opposed to the hierarchical Roman system that finds its apex in the Pope who claims to be the vicar of Christ on earth.

The Westminster Confession states, "Whosoever taketh an oath ought duly to consider the weightiness of so solemn an act, and therein to avouch nothing but what he is fully persuaded is the truth" (WC 22:3). "An oath is to be taken in the plain and common sense of the words, without equivocation or mental reservation" (WC 22:4).

Clearly the PCI Moderator-elect has broken his oath of faithfulness to the Westminster Confession (opposed as it is to the doctrine, sacraments, worship, discipline and church government of Roman Catholicism) by inviting the Roman Primate of Ireland to be his honoured guest at the opening night of Irish Presbyterianism’s highest assembly. And only three of the twenty-one presbyteries protested!
from: http://www.cprf.co.uk/articles/romanprimate.htm

in the American Westminster Confession the following changes have been made:

original---
Chapter XXV
Of the Church

VI. There is no other head of the church but the Lord Jesus Christ. Nor can the pope of Rome, in any sense, be head thereof: but is that Antichrist, that man of sin, and son of perdition, that exalteth himself, in the Church, against Christ and all that is called God.

as modified---
Chapter XXV
Of the Church

VI. There is no other head of the church but the Lord Jesus Christ. Nor can the pope of Rome, in any sense, be head thereof.
from: http://www.opc.org/documents/WCF_orig.html


the know-nothings, the rabid anti-catholicism is (i hope) an historical relic.
but inviting the RC to GA?
why?
 

Knight

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Personal reconciliation or docturnal reconciliation?

There can be personal reconciliation in that people can forgive personal offenses on both sides of the issue.

I do not see docturnal reconciliation as a possibility.
 
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Wilfred of Ivanhoe

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Knight said:
Personal reconciliation or docturnal reconciliation?

There can be personal reconciliation in that people can forgive personal offenses on both sides of the issue.

I do not see docturnal reconciliation as a possibility.

Nor do I. How can we reconcile with doctrines so contrary to what we believe the Scripture teaches? I can, on a personal basis, be friends with Catholics while still disagreeing with them. We can discuss issues and understand one another. But to have fellowship with their teachings? As long as scripture is what it is, that cannot happen.
 
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M. Wayne Bradley

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kimber1 said:
what would be so wrong if some kind of respect and attempt at reconciliation was made?



Nothing in theory. But for real reconciliation, either both sides must reach some agreement that reaffirms their own doctrines, yet recognizes the other’s as basically orthodox (or close enough as to not quibble over), even though they flatly contradict each other, or one side or the other is going to have to admit they were wrong on such issues as Justification, authority, baptism, the Eucharist etc. In other words, trying to reconcile Catholicism and Protestantism is a no-starter. One or the other would have to cease to exist. The spirit of ecumenism is strong and growing, which is why you get silly and anemic attempts like ECT, but there are still plenty of folks in each camp who oppose it.
 
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M. Wayne Bradley

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BJBarnett said:
your joking right?

\

, I could have been more diplomatic, and I assume that's the part you're asking about, right?[/color]


So I'll tell you why I said it. The late John Gerstner pointed out that Catholicism doesn't exist, because in order to be a true Catholic, consistent with their theology, one must be born one. They can't 'become' one, because in order to do that they have to examine the truth claims of Rome vs. Everything else, exercising their own private judgement; which is a distinctly Protestant way of going about things. So if one starts out in this manner, as a Protestant, they can never arrive at a legitimate embracing of the Roman church, because they have denied Catholicism in the very process --which always begins with the authority of the Church.

In other words, it's impossible to become a Catholic via Protestantism. Therefore, it's impossible period, and Catholicism really doesn't exist, though it's a fact that many people mistakenly believe it does.


The first part of the post was edited by this mod as it repeated a phrase that was edited .
It also violated rule 7



Rule No. 7 - No Public Posts about Specific Moderator Actions

7) You will not post questions or comments about the specific actions of a moderator in a public forum (eg. editing a post, deleting a thread, banning a member), as this remains a private matter between the member and the staff involved. However, members may PM or email a moderator at anytime. General questions about staff and feedback about moderators are allowed, just not specific questions about a particular moderator action. All decisions to edit, move or delete a post or thread are based on this set of rules listed here.

The owners of Christian Forums reserve the right to remove, edit, move or close any thread for any reason. They also reserve the right to modify the forum rules at any time. Members are expected to check the Announcement Forum or the Rules page to keep up to date with current rules.
 
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rnmomof7

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kimber1 said:
:scratch: huh? i'm a convert to Catholicism from Protestantism and i had no trouble.

I think his point is interesting.

The Catholic church traditionally says that Protestants are wrong because they come to their doctrine by an individual study and decision (Sola Scriptura)

When one converts to Catholicism it is (like Protestants) through personal study and decision

(if I am understanding him right)

I do not think he is saying it is a "problem"
 
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BjBarnett

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M. Wayne Bradley said:


\

, I could have been more diplomatic, and I assume that's the part you're asking about, right?[/color]


So I'll tell you why I said it. The late John Gerstner pointed out that Catholicism doesn't exist, because in order to be a true Catholic, consistent with their theology, one must be born one. They can't 'become' one, because in order to do that they have to examine the truth claims of Rome vs. Everything else, exercising their own private judgement; which is a distinctly Protestant way of going about things. So if one starts out in this manner, as a Protestant, they can never arrive at a legitimate embracing of the Roman church, because they have denied Catholicism in the very process --which always begins with the authority of the Church.

In other words, it's impossible to become a Catholic via Protestantism. Therefore, it's impossible period, and Catholicism really doesn't exist, though it's a fact that many people mistakenly believe it does.


The first part of the post was edited by this mod as it repeated a phrase that was edited .
It also violated rule 7



Rule No. 7 - No Public Posts about Specific Moderator Actions

7) You will not post questions or comments about the specific actions of a moderator in a public forum (eg. editing a post, deleting a thread, banning a member), as this remains a private matter between the member and the staff involved. However, members may PM or email a moderator at anytime. General questions about staff and feedback about moderators are allowed, just not specific questions about a particular moderator action. All decisions to edit, move or delete a post or thread are based on this set of rules listed here.

The owners of Christian Forums reserve the right to remove, edit, move or close any thread for any reason. They also reserve the right to modify the forum rules at any time. Members are expected to check the Announcement Forum or the Rules page to keep up to date with current rules.

yeah... ummm ok sure. you keep telling yourself that
 
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KennySe

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M. Wayne Bradley said:
In other words, it's impossible to become a Catholic via Protestantism. Therefore, it's impossible period, and Catholicism really doesn't exist, though it's a fact that many people mistakenly believe it does.

Has anyone informed the Pope, the Cardinals, the Bishops, the Priests, the monks, the nuns, the brothers, the deacons, and all the Catholic Laity that Catholicism doesn't really exist?

Has anyone informed those Catholics who have converted from Protestantism that they have entered an illusionary church?
 
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BjBarnett

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KennySe said:
Has anyone informed the Pope, the Cardinals, the Bishops, the Priests, the monks, the nuns, the brothers, the deacons, and all the Catholic Laity that Catholicism doesn't really exist?

Has anyone informed those Catholics who have converted from Protestantism that they have entered an illusionary church?

WAIT!!! WAIT!!! A MINUTE!

I just realized something. If the Catholic Church doesnt exist where am i gonna go tonight!? lol :)
:scratch:
 
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