Rapture?

[Cary.Melvin]

What are the Reformed Churches views on the end times?

Amillinial, Pre-millenial, Post-millenial?

If Pre-millenial, do you believe in a Pre, Mid or Post Tribulation Rapture?

 

[Bulldog]

It seems to me that most Reformed churches are Ammillennial or Postmillennial, though our creeds and confessions don't define such doctrine.

I have noticed that dispensation Premil is not a position taught in many Reformed churches, although many members here do take the premil stance.

 

[Knight]

There's plenty of premills as well.....

You'll find the whole spectrum of Eschatological views among the Reformed community.

 

[Cary.Melvin]

Wern't Reformers like Luther and Calvin Amillenial?

 

[Knight]

I'm honestly not sure....

However, eschatology has never been a driving passion of mine.

 

[theseed]

I'm premellennial, but I am undecided about when the rapture is. It does not matter to me--well actually it does. Many Christians would be severely persecuted in the tribulation.

I do believe that there will be new converts in the tribulation, and that the Holy Spirit must be there for that to be possible.

 

[jazzbird]

I'm pre-mil, pre-wrath. It makes the most sense to me in light of what I know, however, in the end, it doesn't really matter. God is sovereign.

 

[Wilfred of Ivanhoe]

Wern't Reformers like Luther and Calvin Amillenial?

According to my pastor, you are correct. Luther and Calvin, among many other Reformers were Amillenial.

Personally, I've lost my faith in the dispenstational premil theory largely based upon how popular it is. I know that may sound silly, but it is hard to articulate. I am currently studying amillinialism in some of my spare time. Personally, I don't put a lot of energy into such as study because there are so many things of greater importance to know.

As posted before by another believer, I know several things for sure.

1. Jesus will return.
2. We as believers should be ready and doing our master's work.
3. There will be a judgement.
4. There will be great deception, almost enough to fool the very elect, during the time between Christ's first and second advent.

 

[rmwilliamsll]

Wern't Reformers like Luther and Calvin Amillenial?

terms changed roughly in the 19thC with the rise of dispensationalism
google:
chiliasm or millenialism

there is a good introduction at: http://mb-soft.com/believe/text/millenar.htm

where they write

Perhaps the Munster episode led the Protestant Reformers to reaffirm Augustinian amillennialism. Each of the three main Protestant traditions of the sixteenth century, Lutheran, Calvinist, and Anglican, had the support of the state and so continued the same Constantinian approach to theology. Both Luther and Calvin were very suspicious of millennial speculation. Calvin declared that those who engaged in calculations based on the apocalyptic portions of Scripture were "ignorant" and "malicious." The major statements of the various Protestant bodies such as the Augsburg Confession (1, xvii), the Thirty nine Articles (IV), and the Westminister Confession (chs. 32, 33), although professing faith in the return of Christ, do not support apocalyptic millenarian speculation. In certain respects, however, the Reformers inaugurated changes which would lead to a revival of interest in premillennialism. These include a more literal approach to the interpretation of Scripture, the identification of the papacy with Antichrist, and an emphasis on Bible prophecy.

 

[Donny_B]

Some more insights into the eschatology of Luther and Calvin and the Reformation are summarized well in this essay "An Eschatology of Grace":

http://members.aol.com/twarren14/eschagrace.html

[size=-1]The medieval church had plunged eschatology into the gloomy shadows of its gospel of salvation by the will, works, and worth of man. [/size]



[size=-1]The church of the Reformation could again pray, "Come, Lord Jesus."[/size]

[size=-1]John Calvin gave sharpest expression to this practical aspect of biblical eschatology in that section of his Institutes where he treated eschatology: "He alone has fully profited in the gospel who has accustomed himself to continual meditation upon the blessed resurrection" (3.25.1).[/size] [size=-1]This total recasting of eschatology in the light of grace is evident in the Reformation creeds.

[/size]

 

[Bulldog]

Wern't Reformers like Luther and Calvin Amillenial?

I'm pretty sure Luther was Ammilennial, but Calvin I'm not so sure about. Calvin had many preterist views and historicst views....

 

[Donny_B]

Dispensationalists can also claim that Calvin supported their views, as far as the question of the future of the Jews:

John Calvin, "Commentary on the Book of the Prophet Isaiah," Calvin's Commentaries, vol. 8, 269.

" When the Gentiles shall come in, the Jews also shall return from their defection to the obedience of faith; and thus shall be completed the salvation, . . . which must be gathered from both; and yet in such a way that the Jews shall obtain the first place, being as it were the first born in God's family, as Jews are the first born, what the prophet declares must be fulfilled, especially in them; . . . it is to be ascribed to the preeminence of that nation, who God had preferred to all other nations....God distinctly claims for Himself a certain seed, so that His redemption may be effectual in His elect and peculiar nation....God was not unmindful of the covenant which He had made with their fathers, and by which he testified that according to his eternal purpose He loved that nation; and this he confirms by this remarkable declaration, - that the grace of divine calling cannot be made void."

 

[CCWoody]

I'm premellennial, but I am undecided about when the rapture is.

Given your question to me about the Athanasian creed, it was easy to guess that you are a Premil.

The interesting thing here is that the Apostle's, Nicene, & Athanasian creeds are all Amillennial. Go look and see.

I'm a Partial Preterist myself.

 

[theseed]

Given your question to me about the Athanasian creed, it was easy to guess that you are a Premil.

The interesting thing here is that the Apostle's, Nicene, & Athanasian creeds are all Amillennial. Go look and see.

I'm a Partial Preterist myself.

i believe that history repeats itself, it's cyclical. So, many of the prophecies can be fullfilled twice.

Does that make any sense?

I've seen nothing in the Apostles Creed that seems Amil.

 

[Grace_Alone4gives]

I second the Pre-Wrath rapture...although I am not well studied.

Has anyone read the fictional book "The Fourth Reich"?
It is really good!

 

[Rechtgläubig]

I've seen nothing in the Apostles Creed that seems Amil.

What about this?

"...He ascended into heaven, and sitteth on the right hand of God the Father Almighty; from thence He shall come to judge the quick and the dead."

 

[theseed]

What about this?

"...He ascended into heaven, and sitteth on the right hand of God the Father Almighty; from thence He shall come to judge the quick and the dead."

He can ascend back into heaven after he rains a thousand years and defeats the last rebellion, thereby iniatiaing the 2nd ressurrection.

 

[theseed]

Wern't Reformers like Luther and Calvin Amillenial?

I think many were postmillennialist.

http://www.zondervanchurchsource.com/product.asp?ISBN=0310201438

 

[theseed]

"Premillennialism: An historic fact"

http://www.biblicist.org/bible/premil.htm

 

[CCWoody]

He can ascend back into heaven after he rains a thousand years and defeats the last rebellion, thereby iniatiaing the 2nd ressurrection.

That would require that you add a great deal of your own theology to the creed to make it fit. In plain language, it simply says that the Lord will come to judge BOTH the living and the dead, not to initiate a 1000 year reign.

Like it or not, all three of those creeds are Amillennial.

And, yes, I do think that many of the OT prophecies spoke of 2 different things.

BTW, hang around my Bible study for a year, and I'll be sure to give you plenty of verses which are difficult for Premills. I'm very persuasive. So far I think there are only a couple whom have not yet converted to some form of Amillennialism.

I have a similar success rate with Calvinism.

Though, not really, I, but the Lord though me.